I noticed this lovely opinion against HS mountain biking
- Thread starter sanjuro
- Start date
I am so glad I don't live in Marin. Hippies are so much easier to deal with than yuppies.
What a f-ing idiot.
EDIT: I like the fact that he doesn't mention that the equestrians leave piles of crap in the middle of the trail for all who hike or ride to have to deal with.
I've never had a problem with equestrians but it seems hikers such as this jackass have invaded Auburn as well. Even with a greeting and a smile, they still seem to think that they are above mountain bikers.
EDIT: I like the fact that he doesn't mention that the equestrians leave piles of crap in the middle of the trail for all who hike or ride to have to deal with.
I've never had a problem with equestrians but it seems hikers such as this jackass have invaded Auburn as well. Even with a greeting and a smile, they still seem to think that they are above mountain bikers.
yet another poor male facing the "testicles in my wifes purse" syndrome. somebody needs to slip a beef patty into his tofu burger when he is not looking.
Yet another person who assumes erosion is caused by bikes instead of the reality that trail use has increased over the years as a result of increased numbers in EVERY USER GROUP, including hikers.
"Attitude of entitlement" indeed.
"Attitude of entitlement" indeed.
I quit reading after this sentence.
The rest probably says what I think it says right?
Yes, if you were thinking it was a long-winded yuppie diatribe about how bikes ruin mountains/communities and we are incapable of controlling ourselves.
i hope he crashes on that designated fire road and gets a wicked rash.
That's sad to hear. Auburn is one of the few places in nor-cal that I feel people are realistic, open minded and give cyclists their due (excpet the moto crowd.. some of them are a bit hard headed).
I can deal with, and even expect flack when riding in Berkely or Marin. But, to be honest, if I got berrated while riding in Auburn I would be real tempted to sock someone.
Marin people are *ssholes (unless you're on here. Present company excluded).
The fact that this douchebag wants a constructive, healthy, and nature-loving sport OUT of high schools, both public and private, makes me sick. This is the type of person that makes bikes on legal and illegal trails get in pissing matches with hikers.
The fact that this guy claims that he's been hiking on the trails before the mountain bike existed (20 years), leads me to conclude he's an *ss-hat, and can shove his richie-rich, upper-class suburban opinion up his fecal matter exit hole.
Haha... he estimates about 40 percent of us have destructive nature. So take away biking, and we'll see who's house gets their empty pool skated in, their garage door kicked in, and bricks thrown through their windows at night.
If you ask me, signs in this dude's front yard that say, "I don't support high school mountain biking because I don't support the youth of today and tomorrow" are necessary.
And this idiot was ballsy enough to post his full name. He's screwed.
The fact that this douchebag wants a constructive, healthy, and nature-loving sport OUT of high schools, both public and private, makes me sick. This is the type of person that makes bikes on legal and illegal trails get in pissing matches with hikers.
The fact that this guy claims that he's been hiking on the trails before the mountain bike existed (20 years), leads me to conclude he's an *ss-hat, and can shove his richie-rich, upper-class suburban opinion up his fecal matter exit hole.
Haha... he estimates about 40 percent of us have destructive nature. So take away biking, and we'll see who's house gets their empty pool skated in, their garage door kicked in, and bricks thrown through their windows at night.
If you ask me, signs in this dude's front yard that say, "I don't support high school mountain biking because I don't support the youth of today and tomorrow" are necessary.
And this idiot was ballsy enough to post his full name. He's screwed.
I'm gonna use that one.
Yea, Marin is a frustrating place. I know a-LOT of really cool people who live there, and frankly, have never met a person there I didn't like. It just depends on the circle you roll with.
There are, however, a lot of self-important, exceedingly-vocal, a$$hats that ruin everything. Everybody needs a purpose in life, and these people can't find anything more usefull to focus on than picking fights with their neighbors over their misinformed, misconstrued, NIMBY opinions.
IMO, these people get a lot more press than they should because it sells. The local media seems to like to stir the pot (as Sanjuro pointed out). It happens all the time, they take the farthest reaching, wildest opinion, and publish it to generate more mail and get more readers.
I have to admit that in some ways I'm a bit jealous of Mr Kelzer. Anyone who can afford that much time, effort and energy into hating something as trivial as mountain biking must have it pretty easy. I can't wait until I'm old and rich enough too care about bullsh*t like this.
BTW N* is open this year...................
BTW N* is open this year...................
That guys an a*shat, we should all write letters against hikers from our local spots, they destroy trails, are out of control and are fueld by adrenaline....this is not acceptable. No more nature clubs for schools either, that idea of a club suggests that kids will become increasingly competetive to find the queerest leaf.
This is a hard subject to write on. so many poor arguments, facts, judgement, and representation in this article. So many loose ends, unfinished stetements, and dead end accusations. Which allow for a Multitude of where to begin in a response. And without proper orgonization, knowledge of the subject, knowledge of the people, and how to approach this article and respond appropriatly. I don;t feel comfterble Responding...
However, because i just took my A.D.D. medication and my mind is focused, i will distribute my thoughts on the topic.
So what i am going to do. is print out the Article and GRADE it as if i were a teacher. Then Scan what i have said about this article back onto my computer and share it with you
I;ll have it up later tonight, i gotta finish my HW. go to the Bicycle Trail Council of the East Bay meeting, first.
However, because i just took my A.D.D. medication and my mind is focused, i will distribute my thoughts on the topic.
So what i am going to do. is print out the Article and GRADE it as if i were a teacher. Then Scan what i have said about this article back onto my computer and share it with you
I;ll have it up later tonight, i gotta finish my HW. go to the Bicycle Trail Council of the East Bay meeting, first.
This subject drives me nuts. There is an open space meeting this thursday, (Ill post the time later)it would be great if some of you guys could make it.
Now to my rant. The media in Marin portrays bikers as evil, erosion causing and destructive people that destroy open space and assult hikers. However, this is not true at all. If anyone has done research about erosion it is the building of a trail in the first place that causes erosion, not the subsequent use of the trail. It is an inconvinient untruth that bikers cause erosion. Also, how many hikers do you see at trail work days, practically none.
Next, bikers do not assult hikers. Hikers assult bikers. I have been hit over the head with a hiking stick on Mt. Tam, charged at by a guy on a horse who then trampled my bike, and hit fishing wire traps. However, the rangers who as of 1999, are enforcers of law do not care about these attacks because they were on bikers.(4th ammendment violation) To add on to the drama, the open space districts have admitted to setting traps on trails to cause bikers harm(if you did that you would be sent to prison for a looooong time). My friend was assulted by a hiker, who hit him off his bike and through it down into a creek down the side of the trail. That is an assult on a minor. He told a ranger at the bottom of the trail and he did nothing about the situation, except right him(my friend) a ticket for riding. I have also almost been ticketed for letting a ranger truck pass me on a fire road. The ranger also refused to give me his name.
Here is a rough draft of what I am writing to the IJ
It’s a sad day when Marin’s open space land management agencies, that claim to outlaw mountain biking on single track trails for reasons of “public safety, liability and environmental concerns,” are the same agencies discovered to be building life-threatening traps in a desperate attempt to shut down mountain biking. It seems that Susan L. Adams and her associates have not only lost their judgment as our appointed officials, but their “compass.” We deserve more transparency and answers.
It’s also time for change. A large, vital Marin mountain biking community needs “fair and reasonable access” to more trails, as is widely granted to hikers, dog owners and horseback riders. Aren’t mountain bikers protected under the same fourth amendment laws? Also, illegal trail building that impacts our wilderness land needs to stop. The success or the latter, however, is closely tied to the former.
It’s an ironic conflict. Progressive Marin is the origin of mountain biking, yet our land management agencies remain indignantly opposed to mountain biking. Marin is one of the most restrictive places to ride a mountain bike -- anywhere. However, we have huge numbers of mountain bikers residing ere -- conservatively at least 30,000 adults in Marin alone, plus about 1 in 5 Marin kids, per MRI, Inc. data. That’s either a large number of “illegal bikers” breaking laws on our trails everyday, or a huge carbon footprint driving out of Marin. Competitive high school teams can’t practice legally in Marin Open Space – not on fire roads at “jogging” speeds of 5 mph around turns, and 15 mph on stretches.
More disturbing, communities nationwide have successfully found means to create peaceful, uneventful ways for all recreational users to share and coexist on trails, but not Marin. Just “Google” Open Space meeting minutes during the past 10 years. The conversations haven’t changed much. One significant change, however, is that open space agencies appointed themselves law enforcers in the mid-90’s. Now mountain bikers, far over other forms of trail violators, are being cited in record numbers.
I believe the reasons for resistance to mountain biking in Marin need to be re-evaluated.
First, since the National Park Service outlawed mountain biking in1964 on single track trails in designated ‘wilderness land’ (by broadly lumping “human-powered” bicycles in with forbidden motorized vehicles as a cause of erosion concern), today scientific studies show that mountain bikes and hikers create about the same amount of environmental impact. (www.IMBA.org; www.americantrails.org; www.dirtworld.com, “Mountain Biking is Not A Crime,” 3-27-06). It’s the building of a trail in the first place that creates the “environmental impact” -- not the subsequent use of it. In other words, two feet, two bicycle wheels, four animal legs – all relatively the same. Even the U.S. Department of the Interior agreed in 2001 studies. Consequently, the argument that bikes on trails cause greater damage appears to have become a “convenient untruth.”
Second, studies in Southern California parks where all forms of trail users shared trails showed no increased incidence of injuries. Third, the level of liability is considerably less on public versus privately owned land. Parking lots seem to do fine by posting “park-at-your-own risk” signs.
While officials conveniently stereotype mountain bikers as renegades, the truth is that most mountain bikers today are hard-working moms, dads and kids. Yes, doctors, lawyers, dentists, stockbrokers, retail store clerks and honor-roll students all “do it.”
Finally, with the discovery of these officially-planted “booby traps,” I believe that there needs to be a closer investigation into some other law enforcement practices of our local land management agencies.
I want to know why I often see rangers cutting down healthy trees and pulling logs across trails to thwart mountain bikers. I also wonder why bikers are continually tracked and followed for miles on legal fire roads by rangers in trucks. That’s happened many times to me. According to Ranger Richard Gibson, I was informed that this is “standard protocol and procedure.” But, isn’t this profiling? I also routinely watch rangers issuing citations to mountain bikers, while ignoring dog owners in violation of laws. Isn’t this “unequal enforcement and application of laws?”
It certainly makes one wonder. There was a time in America when some people didn’t want Rosa Parks on the bus either. When will mountain bikers in Marin get “a legal seat on the bus?” I hope it’s before we’re all too old to “ride.”
Ryan Quinn, 15, Novato
Now to my rant. The media in Marin portrays bikers as evil, erosion causing and destructive people that destroy open space and assult hikers. However, this is not true at all. If anyone has done research about erosion it is the building of a trail in the first place that causes erosion, not the subsequent use of the trail. It is an inconvinient untruth that bikers cause erosion. Also, how many hikers do you see at trail work days, practically none.
Next, bikers do not assult hikers. Hikers assult bikers. I have been hit over the head with a hiking stick on Mt. Tam, charged at by a guy on a horse who then trampled my bike, and hit fishing wire traps. However, the rangers who as of 1999, are enforcers of law do not care about these attacks because they were on bikers.(4th ammendment violation) To add on to the drama, the open space districts have admitted to setting traps on trails to cause bikers harm(if you did that you would be sent to prison for a looooong time). My friend was assulted by a hiker, who hit him off his bike and through it down into a creek down the side of the trail. That is an assult on a minor. He told a ranger at the bottom of the trail and he did nothing about the situation, except right him(my friend) a ticket for riding. I have also almost been ticketed for letting a ranger truck pass me on a fire road. The ranger also refused to give me his name.
Here is a rough draft of what I am writing to the IJ
It’s a sad day when Marin’s open space land management agencies, that claim to outlaw mountain biking on single track trails for reasons of “public safety, liability and environmental concerns,” are the same agencies discovered to be building life-threatening traps in a desperate attempt to shut down mountain biking. It seems that Susan L. Adams and her associates have not only lost their judgment as our appointed officials, but their “compass.” We deserve more transparency and answers.
It’s also time for change. A large, vital Marin mountain biking community needs “fair and reasonable access” to more trails, as is widely granted to hikers, dog owners and horseback riders. Aren’t mountain bikers protected under the same fourth amendment laws? Also, illegal trail building that impacts our wilderness land needs to stop. The success or the latter, however, is closely tied to the former.
It’s an ironic conflict. Progressive Marin is the origin of mountain biking, yet our land management agencies remain indignantly opposed to mountain biking. Marin is one of the most restrictive places to ride a mountain bike -- anywhere. However, we have huge numbers of mountain bikers residing ere -- conservatively at least 30,000 adults in Marin alone, plus about 1 in 5 Marin kids, per MRI, Inc. data. That’s either a large number of “illegal bikers” breaking laws on our trails everyday, or a huge carbon footprint driving out of Marin. Competitive high school teams can’t practice legally in Marin Open Space – not on fire roads at “jogging” speeds of 5 mph around turns, and 15 mph on stretches.
More disturbing, communities nationwide have successfully found means to create peaceful, uneventful ways for all recreational users to share and coexist on trails, but not Marin. Just “Google” Open Space meeting minutes during the past 10 years. The conversations haven’t changed much. One significant change, however, is that open space agencies appointed themselves law enforcers in the mid-90’s. Now mountain bikers, far over other forms of trail violators, are being cited in record numbers.
I believe the reasons for resistance to mountain biking in Marin need to be re-evaluated.
First, since the National Park Service outlawed mountain biking in1964 on single track trails in designated ‘wilderness land’ (by broadly lumping “human-powered” bicycles in with forbidden motorized vehicles as a cause of erosion concern), today scientific studies show that mountain bikes and hikers create about the same amount of environmental impact. (www.IMBA.org; www.americantrails.org; www.dirtworld.com, “Mountain Biking is Not A Crime,” 3-27-06). It’s the building of a trail in the first place that creates the “environmental impact” -- not the subsequent use of it. In other words, two feet, two bicycle wheels, four animal legs – all relatively the same. Even the U.S. Department of the Interior agreed in 2001 studies. Consequently, the argument that bikes on trails cause greater damage appears to have become a “convenient untruth.”
Second, studies in Southern California parks where all forms of trail users shared trails showed no increased incidence of injuries. Third, the level of liability is considerably less on public versus privately owned land. Parking lots seem to do fine by posting “park-at-your-own risk” signs.
While officials conveniently stereotype mountain bikers as renegades, the truth is that most mountain bikers today are hard-working moms, dads and kids. Yes, doctors, lawyers, dentists, stockbrokers, retail store clerks and honor-roll students all “do it.”
Finally, with the discovery of these officially-planted “booby traps,” I believe that there needs to be a closer investigation into some other law enforcement practices of our local land management agencies.
I want to know why I often see rangers cutting down healthy trees and pulling logs across trails to thwart mountain bikers. I also wonder why bikers are continually tracked and followed for miles on legal fire roads by rangers in trucks. That’s happened many times to me. According to Ranger Richard Gibson, I was informed that this is “standard protocol and procedure.” But, isn’t this profiling? I also routinely watch rangers issuing citations to mountain bikers, while ignoring dog owners in violation of laws. Isn’t this “unequal enforcement and application of laws?”
It certainly makes one wonder. There was a time in America when some people didn’t want Rosa Parks on the bus either. When will mountain bikers in Marin get “a legal seat on the bus?” I hope it’s before we’re all too old to “ride.”
Ryan Quinn, 15, Novato
Awesome to see someone take the time to spell out their thoughts sensibly and with information to back them up. I wish I wasn't so lazy to do that.
Props.
and it's because of b**ches like this guy that it hasn't worked out to well in marin.
I actually had a lady walking up one of our descents. I stopped and she stopped. She waved me on and I smiled and gave my thanks and greeting......as I rode past her, she started yelling at me about finding a mountain bike trail.
I was in shock but I just waved again.....no not the middle finger wave....and rode on.
Gotta love it.
On the flip side. I've actually had hikers stop me and ask for directions, ask for water, ask about bikes and generally have good conversations.
I guess it depends on what day you're up in Auburn. Since my schedule change, I primarily ride up there Monday and Tuesday. I seldom see anyone, which is nice.
I REALLY want to believe it's just a folks visiting and have no idea that they are on a mountain bike trail.
Regardless of what they say to me, I'll do like the penguins in that movie Madagascar did......just smile and wave. They'll look like the jackass, not me.
My favorite Marin story was riding Mt Tam for the first time, I brought a map. After we headed down Eldridge Grade, we were checking the map to be sure we were heading in the right direction.
A jogger coming up to us yells at us "Need directions?" Before we had the chance to say anything, he runs right thru our group and asininely says, "I guess you don't need my help."
My response, "Not with that attitude..."
A jogger coming up to us yells at us "Need directions?" Before we had the chance to say anything, he runs right thru our group and asininely says, "I guess you don't need my help."
My response, "Not with that attitude..."
Haha... you said queerest leaf.
IVCRider... well put and excellently argued.
If I lived closer to Marin, and didn't work 8am-10pm Thursdays, I'd be at that meeting.
If I lived closer to Marin, and didn't work 8am-10pm Thursdays, I'd be at that meeting.
Good rant. Post the meeting time, I'll see if I can make it.
And, the "boobie traps" you speak of being placed by our land managers were intended as blockades to keep people (not just cyclists) off a closed trail. The metal stakes were then bent by a mountain biker (whom I know personally) so they could be hike-a-biked over.
This was completely blown out of proportion to saying that the district planted boobie-traps intended to maim mountain bikers.
I completely agree with your positions, bikes have been outlawed for all the wrong reasons. IMO, if they are to be banned, at least make it for a legitimate reason. Be careful with your facts, a few misstatements will destroy your credibility.
Speaking of which, ICV - you misspelled "here" as "ere" in the third paragraph of your rough draft. Just trying to help before you submit.Awesome to see someone take the time to spell out their thoughts sensibly and with information to back them up. I wish I wasn't so lazy to do that.
Props.
wowzers.
my favorite quote was
but a 2nd close was
my favorite quote was
right.
but a 2nd close was
cause there aren't enough fat kids in high school? we shouldn't promote an activity that teaches kids to be active and healthy and to have fun doing it?
I was going to do a post like this, but I couldn't make up my mind and almost ended up quoting the entire article. Pretty much every sentence he wrote is asinine.
But.. if I had to pick one:
Since every argument he made is contradictory nonsense, or based on bogus ASSumptions. I think it's funny that he thinks a "safe and courteous" and "team" are contradictory because competetive sports release evil adrenaline which kills kittens and makes babies go blind.@$$HAT said:
I also love the fact that he put "win" in quotations. I can just see him making finger quotes when he speaks about "winning". I bet this tool has never won a thing in his life.. or tried for that matter.
What a pathetic existence.
Is it Marin or Moron County? 
lthumbsdown:
lthumbsdown:
I think it would be in our best interest to kidnap ALL Hippies & Sierra Club members and have them shipped off to Iraq.
What a pvssy... Erosion on trails isn't hurting the environment. They were built with the intent of use and can be fixed; "maintained"... Correctly built trails won't affect the environment next to them.
Very well written letter ! !
Good idea about the signs in his yard. I'd do it if I lived in Morin.
Very well written letter ! !
Good idea about the signs in his yard. I'd do it if I lived in Morin.