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I now have less respect for Obama :(

What's your view of Obama today compared to months ago?

  • Like him more

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • same

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • less

    Votes: 12 19.4%
  • other

    Votes: 4 6.5%

  • Total voters
    62

3D.

Monkey
Feb 23, 2006
899
0
Chinafornia USA
The guys (Pastor) probably just like that crazy uncle you have that you drink beers with and fish along the banks of the river with. He can go on all night about how the world sucks, how he's a racist and how he hates cats. You can listen to his bull**** all night and chuckle even when you know your not a racist or hate cats because there is some good about'um too, and hope some day you can spark a chance for change in his evil thoughts. So you finish the case of beer and you drive home the next day. No big deal. See you next Sunday.
Then you obviously wouldn't request that he be the man to marry you and baptize your kids...:lighten:
 

jasride

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2006
1,069
5
PA
having racist maternal g-parents (since deceased), i can easily empathize with your p.o.v., but i wasn't influenced by them, and i'm not running for high office.

obama now has to do what he does best: tell us all: "don't worry; be hopeful". it may mean he has to ditch this guy, or just ignore what people say. at this stage of the game, i think most people's minds are made up. for the one or two voters he may lose over this issue, his devotees will dig in harder & campaign to get them replaced, plus a few more.
Yeah it's funny, you either ditch him and tell him hey I like 90% of you but since the country hates 100% of you I'm gonna stay away from you for a while because I have to care what the people think about me - it's not me or you, it's what people think of me. I wanna be Pres.

Or you can say, im stayin right here man, I respect what you say because I see where you're coming from and I can see good in you but I know that probably won't get me in office,- and just stay the course.

Honestly, I would respect him more if he would embrace this guy even more. There's got to be more to this story than, My name is Obama and I love going to my racist driven Sunday Sermen headed by my racially driven Pastor. I'm running for Pres. and I love being and supporting racism. come on.
 

jasride

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2006
1,069
5
PA
Then you obviously wouldn't request that he be the man to marry you and baptize your kids...:lighten:

Do you mean the man in Chcago or the crazy dude along the river?

Honestly, If he were "legally able" and the wife wouldn't care I'd be down for the crazy uncle.

There's probably a few other people in those religious sessions that do not respect every thing this guy says as well. I know the Pres. is supposed to be perfect and not have any flaws but there's cops out there arresting people for DUI's and then going out 2 nights later and driving under the influence. No disrespect to our officers, that's a serious job. I know I'm fading off the point of topic a little.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
what changed?
or rather, why was it good, but now not so good?
did schysters like rev's al & jesse make you cynical?
 

SlapheadMofo

Monkey
Jul 29, 2003
412
0
Westminster MA
what changed?
or rather, why was it good, but now not so good?
did schysters like rev's al & jesse make you cynical?
Dunno if it was ever 'good' but at least it was understandable when we were ignorant of how things actually worked. To me, it's a lot like finding out someone still believes the earth is flat. Hey, might be good folks, but damn...get with the program wouldja?
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Dunno if it was ever 'good' but at least it was understandable when we were ignorant of how things actually worked. To me, it's a lot like finding out someone still believes the earth is flat. Hey, might be good folks, but damn...get with the program wouldja?
Your intolerance makes baby jesus cry.
 

SlapheadMofo

Monkey
Jul 29, 2003
412
0
Westminster MA
You isolate a group of people and make a sweeping generalization about them?
I dunno if it's really a stereotype, as I still readily recognize the individuality of those in the group. Just that, to varying degrees, depending on the virulence of their 'faith' and how it affects their outlook, I question their judgement. It goes both ways I'm sure; I can live with that.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster has been disproven?

To paraphrase Sam Harris, 'If something can be posited without evidence, it can just as fairly be dismissed without evidence.' (Or something pretty close to that.)
so you believe you can prove a negative?

my first bike was a schwinn orange crate w/ sissy bars.
i no longer have the bike, no pictures, nor anyone who can vouch for it.
and according to you & sam harris, my claim can reasonably be dismissed.

and since the earth was proven flat longer before our founding fathers stood our great country up, they have no excuse, again, according to you & sam harris.

i don't believe you're articulating your point very well to a simple, God-fearing man like me. which may be redundant.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
Obama:

Smart.


Obama Denounces Pastor's 9/11 Comments
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/03/14/politics/p144629D48.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1


Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Friday denounced inflammatory remarks from his pastor, who has railed against the United States and accused its leaders of bringing on the Sept. 11 attacks by spreading terrorism.

As video of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright has widely aired on television and the Internet, Obama responded by posting a blog about his relationship with Wright and his church, Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, on the Huffington Post.

Obama wrote that he's looked to Wright for spiritual advice, not political guidance, and he's been pained and angered to learn of some of his pastor's comments for which he had not been present. Obama's statement did not say whether Wright would remain on his African American Religious Leadership Committee, and campaign officials wouldn't say either.

"I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies," Obama said. "I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Reverend Wright that are at issue."
On the Cuntington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html


YOUR MOVE MCCAIN.
 

SlapheadMofo

Monkey
Jul 29, 2003
412
0
Westminster MA
so you believe you can prove a negative?

my first bike was a schwinn orange crate w/ sissy bars.
i no longer have the bike, no pictures, nor anyone who can vouch for it.
and according to you & sam harris, my claim can reasonably be dismissed.

and since the earth was proven flat longer before our founding fathers stood our great country up, they have no excuse, again, according to you & sam harris.

i don't believe you're articulating your point very well to a simple, God-fearing man like me. which may be redundant.
So, deliberate obtusensess aside, would you be of the opinion that each and every god ever worshipped does in fact exist? Cuz I don't recall any compelling evidence refuting the existence of Zeus and his gang either. And why no love for Quatzecoatl? Or is it just the 'one true god' that currently rates the hard sell around these parts that you've coincidentally narrowed it down to? It seems to me that if you're willing to believe that one supernatural being exists, it would seem to follow that you should equally accept the existence of all of them, barring hard evidence to the contrary, of course.


It all just sounds so frigging silly to me. But hey, if it works for ya...:thumb:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
So, deliberate obtusensess aside, would you be of the opinion that each and every god ever worshipped does in fact exist?
not in fact, no.
Cuz I don't recall any compelling evidence refuting the existence of Zeus and his gang either.
n*gga stole my bike.
And why no love for Quatzecoatl?
can't pronounce it.
next
Or is it just the 'one true god' that currently rates the hard sell around these parts that you've coincidentally narrowed it down to? It seems to me that if you're willing to believe that one supernatural being exists, it would seem to follow that you should equally accept the existence of all of them, barring hard evidence to the contrary, of course.
if there were a way to apply the socratic method to something spiritual, then maybe.
It all just sounds so frigging silly to me. But hey, if it works for ya...:thumb:
you get out what you put in.
plus some.
 

3D.

Monkey
Feb 23, 2006
899
0
Chinafornia USA
Obama said he wasn't aware of Wright's incendiary comments until he began running for president early last year.

``If I had heard any of these statements, I probably would have walked up and I probably would have told Reverend Wright that they were wrong,'' Obama, 46, told CNN.
20 years in his church, never heard this type of sentiment… liar

The remarks about Obama not being wealthy are starting to get old as well. His house and the fact that it’s related to Rezko speaks for itself

 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/64224.html

But i thought it wasnt about race..???

Now Obama plays the race deck:

Obama said:
We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America – to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we’ve never really worked through – a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
:clapping:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/la-oe-goldberg18mar18,0,5659415.column

What does it say that Trinity United Church is the most popular in Obama's old state Senate district, with a membership of 8,500? One of Wright's flock responded to the controversy by telling ABC News, "I wouldn't call [Wright's theology] radical. I call it being black in America." NPR's Michelle Norris explained on "Meet the Press" that Wright's tone, at least, is "not something that is unusual" in black churches.

A Rasmussen poll released Monday found that 29% of blacks surveyed said Wright's comments made them more likely to support Obama, while only 18% said the opposite, and half said Wright's comments would have no effect on them.

That is a symptom of a problem that platitudinous "hope" cannot alone remedy.

A 2005 study by the Rand Corp. and the University of Oregon found that nearly half of African Americans say they believe that HIV is man-made. More than 25% think that it's a government invention, and one in eight say it was created and spread by the CIA. Just over half believe that the government is purposely keeping a cure from reaching the poor.

And please, spare me the rationalization that blacks have reason to be conspiratorial. Doubtless there's truth to that. But that doesn't make the conspiracy theories any more true or any less destructive.

In the 2005 issue of Social Science Quarterly, Sharon Parsons and William Simmons tried to explain why conspiracy theories like these persist in the black community. Part of the answer, they concluded, is that black politicians have no interest in dispelling them. Paging Sen. Obama!

Obama preaches unity. Well, real unity requires real truth-telling and the ability to tell right from wrong, and Wright from right.

I, for one, have no interest in being united with Wright or anyone who insists that America is an evil, racist, damnable nation bent on murdering black people -- and I suspect neither will many general election voters.
dang.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
i'm confused about something in his i have a dream speech, & i need an obamaphile to explain this to me:

if we are not to give any credence to his race (self-identified as black), then why does he exploit his grandmother's race (white)? and why then does he say he can't disown his reverend - whom he chose - any more than can't disown his grandmother, whom he could not choose?

and then let's go back - heh! - to last week: why can obama openly lament that there are those who wouldn't vote for a minority for just that very reason, yet bemoan geraldine's comments which affirm the flip side of the coin?

why does he belong to a church which is afro-centric, while he wants to be a racial uniter?

his racial positions - which we hear when he's backed into a corner - might make sense to blacks & self-hating, white guilt liberals, but not me.


edit to sum: i guess i just want to know how much does race matter?
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,942
13,135
Portland, OR
edit to sum: i guess i just want to know how much does race matter?
The issue is his race shouldn't matter, but it does and it will. There are too many people who still see people of color, regardless of the fact that everyone is a person of color.

I don't feel like he is using or trying to use his race or color as an advantage, but Hillary has and will use her sex as one.

Either way, this race comes down to sex vs. race vs. the old (and soon crazy) dude.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
23
SF, CA
his racial positions - which we hear when he's backed into a corner - might make sense to blacks & self-hating, white guilt liberals, but not me.


edit to sum: i guess i just want to know how much does race matter?
I think we all agree that race does matter or we wouldn't have a thread on it. My take is that Obama does too and that there is truth (that Obama is aware of) to both sides that it is a leg up and a disadvantage depending on the context. Further, I had the impression that Obama was doing everything he could to keep race out of the conversation, an effort that included denying race was in any way important.

Backed into a corner (see: pastor) and forced to make race an issue, I think he is only being honest that all is not perfect in American race relations. So sure, it's a contradiction with earlier statements, but I think the earlier statements were a well-meaning effort to keep race out of the campaigns.
 

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
Ok, so riddle me this...Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, & Billy Graham can all say equally, if not more, offensive words to some degree or another but go on being "spiritual leaders" or "counselors" to the likes of every President (excluding Kennedy) since Ike? Did anyone ask Billary or GHWB/GWB to "repudiate" the comments of their spiritual advisor's on topics such as Jews, gays, and support of segregation/apartheid. Pot calling kettle black, eh?

Race is an undeniable part of American history. American national politics is about a regurgitation of history, reorganized to suit a candidate/party's needs at that moment in time. Race should therefore be a big part of that discussion. We are all afraid to discuss what is in plain view but the media will talk non-stop about pant suits, lapel pins, hair cuts, and sex-capades like it really matters in the course of the nation's existence or in any citizen's life.

-ska todd
 

3D.

Monkey
Feb 23, 2006
899
0
Chinafornia USA
Race is an undeniable part of American history.
obama's personal stance on the attempting to ease racial tensions… it’s lacking substance needs real message.

My high school was 40%black, 15%random, 45%white, if individuals (across the board) did not choose a path of compromise and understanding, those individuals (across the board) usually found themselves drenched in chocolate milk while being self crushed underneath two flipped over cafeteria tables.:bonk:

The real world is the same… edit:w/out choc mlk
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Ok, so riddle me this...Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, & Billy Graham can all say equally, if not more, offensive words to some degree...
"9/11 is the fault of the gays, abortionists and liberals" - perfectly fine comment, totally understandable

"9/11 is the fault of American actions overseas the last 50 years" - utterly, completely out of line.

:banana:
 

SlapheadMofo

Monkey
Jul 29, 2003
412
0
Westminster MA
I'm pretty sure I'm going to vote for OB, pretty much entirely because of race.

He's definitely way too far left for me, but I'm willing to forego my own personal politics in the hope that electing a black Democrat president will cut down on the constant harping. People are giving me a frigging headache yo. :huh:


btw - I wonder how much those numbers in that Rasmussen poll would change if you replaced 'black' with 'Democrat'. Not all that much I'd think.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
"9/11 is the fault of the gays, abortionists and liberals" - perfectly fine comment, totally understandable

"9/11 is the fault of American actions overseas the last 50 years" - utterly, completely out of line.

:banana:
in 24 hrs, falwell apologized for his jackass statements. (btw, billy graham's not a douche, just a bible thumper. and don't worry: the +/- deathwatch puts him at 2 months out.)
wright has yet to give any indication that any type of mea culpa is forthcoming from his equally obscene statements.

he has professed teh ass aids was invented by whitey to eradicate the blacks.

and why is it white biblical leaders were contrasted to wright? al & jesse have said repugnant things w/o this much of a row.


leave whitey alone! we have it so hard.
 

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
obama's personal stance on the attempting to ease racial tensions… it’s lacking substance needs real message.
I fail to see how you can think this is simply "Obama's personal stance". Did you seriously sleep through that much US history in school or not watch at least a few minutes of the History Channel while channel skimming late at night?

The first black African slaves were brought to what is now the US in the 1520s by the Spanish. The first slaves in English territories arrived approx 100 years later. Our US Constitution was written protecting the "property" interests of slave holders. A bloody civil war was fought from 1861-1865 over the topic. Following this war, and lasting another 100 years, the country lived under segregationist laws biased toward whites. In the last 40 years this nation has come a long way but, it is still far, far from coming to terms with 500 years of history.

I just finished up two trips overseas where I spent a good deal of time with foreign national from all areas of the globe (Aussies, Kiwis, Brits, Euros, Taiwanese, South Africans, Canadians, South Americans, Japanese, etc). The overwhelming consensus was that the world is pulling for America; the world is pulling for Obama. It was usually their first question in casual conversation when they heard I was an American.

The global economy wants a stronger US dollar, wants us out of Iraq, wants to see a resolution to the credit & mortgage crisis. They do not see the possibility of this happening with McCain, and certainly not with Hillary. The divisive politics of this election cycle have ramifications far beyond just the Democratic party.

-ska todd