Then you obviously wouldn't request that he be the man to marry you and baptize your kids...
Yeah it's funny, you either ditch him and tell him hey I like 90% of you but since the country hates 100% of you I'm gonna stay away from you for a while because I have to care what the people think about me - it's not me or you, it's what people think of me. I wanna be Pres.
Or you can say, im stayin right here man, I respect what you say because I see where you're coming from and I can see good in you but I know that probably won't get me in office,- and just stay the course.
Honestly, I would respect him more if he would embrace this guy even more. There's got to be more to this story than, My name is Obama and I love going to my racist driven Sunday Sermen headed by my racially driven Pastor. I'm running for Pres. and I love being and supporting racism. come on.
Then you obviously wouldn't request that he be the man to marry you and baptize your kids...
Do you mean the man in Chcago or the crazy dude along the river?
Honestly, If he were "legally able" and the wife wouldn't care I'd be down for the crazy uncle.
There's probably a few other people in those religious sessions that do not respect every thing this guy says as well. I know the Pres. is supposed to be perfect and not have any flaws but there's cops out there arresting people for DUI's and then going out 2 nights later and driving under the influence. No disrespect to our officers, that's a serious job. I know I'm fading off the point of topic a little.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-16-poll-iraq_x.htm
only having 47% of the US support the Iraq war just before it started didn't deter Bush, why should it be any different for McCain?
neither here nor there.
I lose a bit of respect for anyone when I find out they're religious. 
Pretty dumb stereotype.I lose a bit of respect for anyone when I find out they're religious.
Good point - I should've added 'in this day and age'.
Not sure how that qualifies as a stereotype???
You isolate a group of people and make a sweeping generalization about them?
Dunno if it was ever 'good' but at least it was understandable when we were ignorant of how things actually worked. To me, it's a lot like finding out someone still believes the earth is flat. Hey, might be good folks, but damn...get with the program wouldja?
Your intolerance makes baby jesus cry.
What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster has been disproven?
To paraphrase Sam Harris, 'If something can be posited without evidence, it can just as fairly be dismissed without evidence.' (Or something pretty close to that.)
I dunno if it's really a stereotype, as I still readily recognize the individuality of those in the group. Just that, to varying degrees, depending on the virulence of their 'faith' and how it affects their outlook, I question their judgement. It goes both ways I'm sure; I can live with that.
so you believe you can prove a negative?
my first bike was a schwinn orange crate w/ sissy bars.
i no longer have the bike, no pictures, nor anyone who can vouch for it.
and according to you & sam harris, my claim can reasonably be dismissed.
and since the earth was proven flat longer before our founding fathers stood our great country up, they have no excuse, again, according to you & sam harris.
i don't believe you're articulating your point very well to a simple, God-fearing man like me. which may be redundant.
Wait, the earth was proven to be flat? When did that happen?
I think you might be missing something.
I think you might be missing something.
Obama:
Smart.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html
YOUR MOVE MCCAIN.
Smart.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/03/14/politics/p144629D48.DTL&type=politics&tsp=1
On the Cuntington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html
YOUR MOVE MCCAIN.
wrong-o... it's Hillary's move.
McCain just has to sit and wait... for now.
McCain just has to sit and wait... for now.
So, deliberate obtusensess aside, would you be of the opinion that each and every god ever worshipped does in fact exist? Cuz I don't recall any compelling evidence refuting the existence of Zeus and his gang either. And why no love for Quatzecoatl? Or is it just the 'one true god' that currently rates the hard sell around these parts that you've coincidentally narrowed it down to? It seems to me that if you're willing to believe that one supernatural being exists, it would seem to follow that you should equally accept the existence of all of them, barring hard evidence to the contrary, of course.
It all just sounds so frigging silly to me. But hey, if it works for ya...
not in fact, no.
n*gga stole my bike.
can't pronounce it.
next
if there were a way to apply the socratic method to something spiritual, then maybe.
you get out what you put in.It all just sounds so frigging silly to me. But hey, if it works for ya...
plus some.
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/64224.html
But i thought it wasnt about race..???
Now Obama plays the race deck:
But i thought it wasnt about race..???
Now Obama plays the race deck:
Obama said:
Pussies.
ahh.. i've built more than a few M:TG decks back in the day...
i'm confused about something in his i have a dream speech, & i need an obamaphile to explain this to me:
if we are not to give any credence to his race (self-identified as black), then why does he exploit his grandmother's race (white)? and why then does he say he can't disown his reverend - whom he chose - any more than can't disown his grandmother, whom he could not choose?
and then let's go back - heh! - to last week: why can obama openly lament that there are those who wouldn't vote for a minority for just that very reason, yet bemoan geraldine's comments which affirm the flip side of the coin?
why does he belong to a church which is afro-centric, while he wants to be a racial uniter?
his racial positions - which we hear when he's backed into a corner - might make sense to blacks & self-hating, white guilt liberals, but not me.
edit to sum: i guess i just want to know how much does race matter?
if we are not to give any credence to his race (self-identified as black), then why does he exploit his grandmother's race (white)? and why then does he say he can't disown his reverend - whom he chose - any more than can't disown his grandmother, whom he could not choose?
and then let's go back - heh! - to last week: why can obama openly lament that there are those who wouldn't vote for a minority for just that very reason, yet bemoan geraldine's comments which affirm the flip side of the coin?
why does he belong to a church which is afro-centric, while he wants to be a racial uniter?
his racial positions - which we hear when he's backed into a corner - might make sense to blacks & self-hating, white guilt liberals, but not me.
edit to sum: i guess i just want to know how much does race matter?
The issue is his race shouldn't matter, but it does and it will. There are too many people who still see people of color, regardless of the fact that everyone is a person of color.
I don't feel like he is using or trying to use his race or color as an advantage, but Hillary has and will use her sex as one.
Either way, this race comes down to sex vs. race vs. the old (and soon crazy) dude.
12345
I think we all agree that race does matter or we wouldn't have a thread on it. My take is that Obama does too and that there is truth (that Obama is aware of) to both sides that it is a leg up and a disadvantage depending on the context. Further, I had the impression that Obama was doing everything he could to keep race out of the conversation, an effort that included denying race was in any way important.
Backed into a corner (see: pastor) and forced to make race an issue, I think he is only being honest that all is not perfect in American race relations. So sure, it's a contradiction with earlier statements, but I think the earlier statements were a well-meaning effort to keep race out of the campaigns.
Ok, so riddle me this...Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, & Billy Graham can all say equally, if not more, offensive words to some degree or another but go on being "spiritual leaders" or "counselors" to the likes of every President (excluding Kennedy) since Ike? Did anyone ask Billary or GHWB/GWB to "repudiate" the comments of their spiritual advisor's on topics such as Jews, gays, and support of segregation/apartheid. Pot calling kettle black, eh?
Race is an undeniable part of American history. American national politics is about a regurgitation of history, reorganized to suit a candidate/party's needs at that moment in time. Race should therefore be a big part of that discussion. We are all afraid to discuss what is in plain view but the media will talk non-stop about pant suits, lapel pins, hair cuts, and sex-capades like it really matters in the course of the nation's existence or in any citizen's life.
-ska todd
Race is an undeniable part of American history. American national politics is about a regurgitation of history, reorganized to suit a candidate/party's needs at that moment in time. Race should therefore be a big part of that discussion. We are all afraid to discuss what is in plain view but the media will talk non-stop about pant suits, lapel pins, hair cuts, and sex-capades like it really matters in the course of the nation's existence or in any citizen's life.
-ska todd
obama's personal stance on the attempting to ease racial tensions its lacking substance needs real message.
My high school was 40%black, 15%random, 45%white, if individuals (across the board) did not choose a path of compromise and understanding, those individuals (across the board) usually found themselves drenched in chocolate milk while being self crushed underneath two flipped over cafeteria tables.
The real world is the same edit:w/out choc mlk
"9/11 is the fault of the gays, abortionists and liberals" - perfectly fine comment, totally understandable
"9/11 is the fault of American actions overseas the last 50 years" - utterly, completely out of line.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to vote for OB, pretty much entirely because of race.
He's definitely way too far left for me, but I'm willing to forego my own personal politics in the hope that electing a black Democrat president will cut down on the constant harping. People are giving me a frigging headache yo. :huh:
btw - I wonder how much those numbers in that Rasmussen poll would change if you replaced 'black' with 'Democrat'. Not all that much I'd think.
He's definitely way too far left for me, but I'm willing to forego my own personal politics in the hope that electing a black Democrat president will cut down on the constant harping. People are giving me a frigging headache yo. :huh:
btw - I wonder how much those numbers in that Rasmussen poll would change if you replaced 'black' with 'Democrat'. Not all that much I'd think.
in 24 hrs, falwell apologized for his jackass statements. (btw, billy graham's not a douche, just a bible thumper. and don't worry: the +/- deathwatch puts him at 2 months out.)"9/11 is the fault of the gays, abortionists and liberals" - perfectly fine comment, totally understandable
"9/11 is the fault of American actions overseas the last 50 years" - utterly, completely out of line.
wright has yet to give any indication that any type of mea culpa is forthcoming from his equally obscene statements.
he has professed teh ass aids was invented by whitey to eradicate the blacks.
and why is it white biblical leaders were contrasted to wright? al & jesse have said repugnant things w/o this much of a row.
leave whitey alone! we have it so hard.
I fail to see how you can think this is simply "Obama's personal stance". Did you seriously sleep through that much US history in school or not watch at least a few minutes of the History Channel while channel skimming late at night?
The first black African slaves were brought to what is now the US in the 1520s by the Spanish. The first slaves in English territories arrived approx 100 years later. Our US Constitution was written protecting the "property" interests of slave holders. A bloody civil war was fought from 1861-1865 over the topic. Following this war, and lasting another 100 years, the country lived under segregationist laws biased toward whites. In the last 40 years this nation has come a long way but, it is still far, far from coming to terms with 500 years of history.
I just finished up two trips overseas where I spent a good deal of time with foreign national from all areas of the globe (Aussies, Kiwis, Brits, Euros, Taiwanese, South Africans, Canadians, South Americans, Japanese, etc). The overwhelming consensus was that the world is pulling for America; the world is pulling for Obama. It was usually their first question in casual conversation when they heard I was an American.
The global economy wants a stronger US dollar, wants us out of Iraq, wants to see a resolution to the credit & mortgage crisis. They do not see the possibility of this happening with McCain, and certainly not with Hillary. The divisive politics of this election cycle have ramifications far beyond just the Democratic party.
-ska todd