[$tinkle]

In the last 40 years this nation has come a long way but, it is still far, far from coming to terms with 500 years of history.

do you believe we've stagnated?
do you believe - to some extent - we've erred by enabling, and not empowering?
what would you recommend we do different or in addition?

the world is pulling for Obama.

are they pulling for obama, or the black guy? if obama, what experience do they point to? it's not enough to be a well-intentioned intellect, as carter has shown us.

The global economy wants a stronger US dollar, wants us out of Iraq, wants to see a resolution to the credit & mortgage crisis

none moreso than the american public

They do not see the possibility of this happening with McCain, and certainly not with Hillary.

i fail to see what the world sees: that obama has either the will or the ability the other 2 don't. and if it's not a matter of the other 2, and just how the world will treat us if we get a black guy in office, how is this too not a perpetuation of racial bigotry?

The divisive politics of this election cycle have ramifications far beyond just the Democratic party.

blame her. his campaign has been nothing if not honorable, however disagreeable his politics may be to me.

 

[$tinkle]

flashback: Obama: fire Imus

 

[ska todd]

and why is it white biblical leaders were contrasted to wright? al & jesse have said repugnant things w/o this much of a row.

b/c to date there hasn't been a black religious leader deemed a "spiritual adviser" to the President of the United States...I think we all can agree that Rev Al and Jesse have said some messed up stuff, but then again they have said some things pretty on the money too. I gather when you talk as much as any religious leader does AND are almost by definition seeking attention and confrontation, occasionally you will take it a step too far and be forced to take it down a notch, at least temporarily.

do you believe we've stagnated?
do you believe - to some extent - we've erred by enabling, and not empowering? what would you recommend we do different or in addition?

Stagnated or hit a plateau where we need another bump to move us forward? Is Obama that bump? I think history will be that judge either which way (hint: Hillary sure ain't!). How much have we really tried to empower? Most efforts in US race relations to date were a compromise to keep the white folk believing they were still in the good. The most drastic and sweeping changes happened in the South directly after the war and before the Union forces were withdrawn and Jim Crowe was implemented. Racial and ethnic tensions run deep globally and take eons to resolve; if ever...Israel/Palestine & Balkans case in point...

are they pulling for obama, or the black guy? if obama, what experience do they point to? it's not enough to be a well-intentioned intellect, as carter has shown us.

Some are certainly pulling "for the black guy" but the resounding comments were regarding Obama's global outlook, his lack of race/religious baiting, his seeming willingness to listen to and consider valid opinion, etc.

In regards to experience; what more experience did Lincoln have? or Kennedy? They were just representatives/Senators. Ike was just a general. Reagan, Clinton, & GWB were all just govs with little, if any, foreign policy experience. I think the "experience" line is just code word for "he isn't old enough" (ie. he is pulling in the young demo & brown people and that scares the crap out of people).

none moreso than the american public

You don't think the world wants the price of oil, gold, & food to come down too? You don't think the world has lots of now worthless USD sitting in reserve? You don't think people in Europe, Asia, or Australia don't have their money tied up in US stock or holdings just like you and me?

We want to see oil prices to come down but we aren't paying $8 a gallon like in Europe or the UK. At first it was a bit of a chuckle to them to see us take it on the chin as the dollar slid...but then it went too far and they started to feel the pinch. It is then that GWB went from being a simple dolt to being a downright idiot. They need us to at least float the currency back up to "dolt" level but now they realize they liked us more when it was stronger and their oil, gold, and food was cheaper.

i fail to see what the world sees: that obama has either the will or the ability the other 2 don't. and if it's not a matter of the other 2, and just how the world will treat us if we get a black guy in office, how is this too not a perpetuation of racial bigotry?

I think Americans are looking at it much more on the black/white dynamic than they are internationally. Globally, they seem to see Obama as youth, open-mindedness, hope, above board. It's also clear he wants out of Iraq which plays well globally.

blame her. his campaign has been nothing if not honorable, however disagreeable his politics may be to me.

Oh, I wholeheartedly do!! I have no love for the woman in the slightest. I thought Bill was good in his time and place. That time and place is past. The future is now blah blah blah.

-ska todd

 

[dante]

In regards to experience; what more experience did Lincoln have? or Kennedy? They were just representatives/Senators. Ike was just a general. Reagan, Clinton, & GWB were all just govs with little, if any, foreign policy experience. I think the "experience" line is just code word for "he isn't old enough" (ie. he is pulling in the young demo & brown people and that scares the crap out of people).

"Experience" is just code word for "I want the other one to win". Bill was governor of a backwater, podunk little southern state with zero foreign policy experience, and left office after 2 terms with the highest approval rating of any president since WWII (yes, higher than Reagan). That his wife is now somehow claiming that her unique experience is essential to being president is laughable.

 

[$tinkle]

b/c to date there hasn't been a black religious leader deemed a "spiritual adviser" to the President of the United States...
I think we all can agree that Rev Al and Jesse have said some messed up stuff, but then again they have said some things pretty on the money too. I gather when you talk as much as any religious leader does AND are almost by definition seeking attention and confrontation, occasionally you will take it a step too far and be forced to take it down a notch, at least temporarily.

jesse advised clinton during lewinsky dust-up
jesse's girl with whom he had a love child

Stagnated or hit a plateau where we need another bump to move us forward? Is Obama that bump?

seeing how i'm a white guy, american society has put me on notice that my opinions lack validity when too fine a point is made. all i'm allowed to do is point to bill cosby, et. al., and even then slowly back out of the room with my head deeply bowed in profound respect

In regards to experience; what more experience did Lincoln have? or Kennedy? They were just representatives/Senators. Ike was just a general. Reagan, Clinton, & GWB were all just govs with little, if any, foreign policy experience. I think the "experience" line is just code word for "he isn't old enough" (ie. he is pulling in the young demo & brown people and that scares the crap out of people).

i'm reading this to mean that experience is "nice to have", but certainly not a disqualifier. while that may be true, it shouldn't then be used to disqualify another person who does have the qualifications as john mccain has (most notably & recent: armed services committee)

I think Americans are looking at it much more on the black/white dynamic than they are internationally. Globally, they seem to see Obama as youth, open-mindedness, hope, above board. It's also clear he wants out of Iraq which plays well globally.

true.

 

[ska todd]

jesse advised clinton during lewinsky dust-up
jesse's girl with whom he had a love child

As I stated earlier, Jesse et al have said some rather wild stuff, though they have also said some stuff that is worth pondering. I personally think the whole idea of a "spiritual adviser" is a bit laughable. Gimme a real good economic adviser, someone who can do some serious work in areas of education, another in the realm of public health. Those matter to me waaaaay more than what a "spiritual adviser" thinks.

seeing how i'm a white guy, american society has put me on notice that my opinions lack validity when too fine a point is made. all i'm allowed to do is point to bill cosby, et. al., and even then slowly back out of the room with my head deeply bowed in profound respect

Really? Since when? Bitter white guys read it that way. Godforbid that comments or actions by white guys be held to the the same standards or levels of commentary of others. White men hold a disproportionate share of political and business power compared to their population. Rather than thinking "hey, you're making my slice smaller!", think of it as making the entire pie bigger and that everyones' slice can stay the same size or maybe even grow a bit.

i'm reading this to mean that experience is "nice to have", but certainly not a disqualifier. while that may be true, it shouldn't then be used to disqualify another person who does have the qualifications as john mccain has (most notably & recent: armed services committee)

No, simply saying that "experience" is not the only quality that makes a great president, it is much more about leadership skills, ability to bridge divides domestically and internationally, and ability to focus a nation on a common goal (a healthy dose of oratory skill can go a long way too). McCain's opportunity was in 00 and he missed out. At that time he stood a chance but was railroaded by his new buddies George, Dick, & Karl. Heck, he stood a chance in 04 in my book when he was scoring points by crossing the aisle and standing up to GWB to a degree. America doesnt want their prickly old uncle (who has openly declared that 1) he doesn't know a lick about economics & 2) that US forces will be in Iraq for another 100 years) as President. We invite him to holiday dinner because he is family, but he doesn't get to sit at the head of the table or carve the bird.

-ska todd

ps - Anyone else find it at all humorous that here we are, the whitest of white guy sports debating about race politics?

 

[$tinkle]

dudes, i found the motherlode:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ATLAHWorldwide

in particular to this thread:

 

[BIGHITR]

Payback for DON IMUS!!!

 

[ska todd]

dudes, i found the motherlode:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ATLAHWorldwide

in particular to this thread:

Trolling Drudge today, eh?

-ska todd

 

[BIGHITR]

This IS a very sticky subject because if you speak your opinion, not all people respect opinions and on comes the negative rep. So let's see if you can speak freely on Ridemonkey and assert our first amendment rights.

First off, he's no Jack Kennedy. But I got to admit, he's real smoooth. He's only been a senator for 3 years thus he's unqualified to run the country. Thirdly, he seems to be offended if anyone says the name Hussein with his name. His true name IS Barac HUSSEIN Obama. Not sure why he is so scared to hear it people say it? I don't have a problem with people using MY middle name. Four, he said he's not muslim. But his PARENTS are! Five, he said he WAS NOT at that sermon when the news media asked, only a day later to change his story and say he was. Probably in fear for his face being seen in a pew in one of the tapes for sale at the church. So to avoid getting caught in a lie, he admitted it but not before denying it. So he LIED this week when asked if he was there. It is obvious the pastor is a black racist biggot and should be removed from the church never allowed to practice again. If a white man stood up on a pulpit and said these same things, Al Sharpton and Jesse would be out front with pickett signs and candles singing "We shall overcome," and demand his resignation. Where you at now AL!?

His parents ARE muslim, his name IS Hussein, and he DOES attend services where a pastor preaches CLEAR CUT RACISM! I say the writing is clearly on the wall.

Now General Collin Powell would have made a good black president. Junior senator Obama is no Collin Powell. My opinion only.

 

[$tinkle]

Trolling Drudge today, eh?

-ska todd

nope, but i did pick up one of the other apples felled from the same tree: michael medved's show.

by the time something hits drudge, it's the new black (nttawwt).

 

[ska todd]

First off, he's no Jack Kennedy. But I got to admit, he's real smoooth. He's only been a senator for 3 years thus he's unqualified to run the country.

And Lincoln's experience in Washington was a term in the House...look where GWB's "experience" got us over the past 8-odd years...

Thirdly, he seems to be offended if anyone says the name Hussein with his name. His true name IS Barac HUSSEIN Obama. Not sure why he is so scared to hear it people say it? I don't have a problem with people using MY middle name. Four, he said he's not muslim. But his PARENTS are!

Obama's "parents" were not Muslim (not that there's anything wrong with it). His father was born Muslim but identified as atheist/agnostic. His mother was atheist. (see snopes if you don't believe) I don't think Obama has a problem with his middle name when it is used in context, but when used as some religious test then I think that is what offends people.

Five, he said he WAS NOT at that sermon when the news media asked, only a day later to change his story and say he was. Probably in fear for his face being seen in a pew in one of the tapes for sale at the church. So to avoid getting caught in a lie, he admitted it but not before denying it. So he LIED this week when asked if he was there. It is obvious the pastor is a black racist biggot and should be removed from the church never allowed to practice again. If a white man stood up on a pulpit and said these same things, Al Sharpton and Jesse would be out front with pickett signs and candles singing "We shall overcome," and demand his resignation. Where you at now AL!?

So, it is ok to get on the airwaves of your vast tax exempt televangelist network (errr "pulpit") and say that "gays & liberals" caused this that or something else but to say "goddamn America" and talk loudly about issues that are still considered touch-stone topics in the black community is very different?

If we all stopped taking religion so seriously and looked at the core issues I think there'd be less of an argument here.

His parents ARE muslim, his name IS Hussein, and he DOES attend services where a pastor preaches CLEAR CUT RACISM! I say the writing is clearly on the wall.

Parents are not Muslim (see above), his middle name is Hussein (so?), and he goes to church with an inflammatory preacher (how many people have gone to churches where a preacher rants about BS that is offensive...I've been to a couple Catholic masses before...I'm out of contention for future political office)

Now General Collin Powell would have made a good black president. Junior senator Obama is no Collin Powell. My opinion only.

So, you rant on and on about how Obama "LIED" if he was at a sermon but yet you're willing to back a man who lied to the UN General Assembly so to gain approval for an unjust war of aggression? Hmmm...I think if you have to highlight your thoughts with "would have made a good black president" shows some true colors.

-ska todd

 

[H8R]

This IS a very sticky subject because if you speak your opinion, not all people respect opinions and on comes the negative rep. So let's see if you can speak freely on Ridemonkey and assert our first amendment rights.

First off, he's no Jack Kennedy. But I got to admit, he's real smoooth. He's only been a senator for 3 years thus he's unqualified to run the country. Thirdly, he seems to be offended if anyone says the name Hussein with his name. His true name IS Barac HUSSEIN Obama. Not sure why he is so scared to hear it people say it? I don't have a problem with people using MY middle name. Four, he said he's not muslim. But his PARENTS are! Five, he said he WAS NOT at that sermon when the news media asked, only a day later to change his story and say he was. Probably in fear for his face being seen in a pew in one of the tapes for sale at the church. So to avoid getting caught in a lie, he admitted it but not before denying it. So he LIED this week when asked if he was there. It is obvious the pastor is a black racist biggot and should be removed from the church never allowed to practice again. If a white man stood up on a pulpit and said these same things, Al Sharpton and Jesse would be out front with pickett signs and candles singing "We shall overcome," and demand his resignation. Where you at now AL!?

His parents ARE muslim, his name IS Hussein, and he DOES attend services where a pastor preaches CLEAR CUT RACISM! I say the writing is clearly on the wall.

Now General Collin Powell would have made a good black president. Junior senator Obama is no Collin Powell. My opinion only.

Your posts are so bad they make me cringe.

 

[$tinkle]

my understanding of the chain of events is that obama never lied about his attendance of the u2b'd incendiary sermons, just others where ideas were expressed which differ from the packaged obama. to the best of his abilities, i believe he's fully addressed the pastor issue.

but you know how the topic of race is, so this isn't over, just reloading

 

[dante]

Your posts are so bad they make me cringe.

ya, no kidding. if you're going to go on and on about someone's name, you might want to at least get it right, first...

 

[BIGHITR]

Stingle I am inclined to agree with you as to it's been fully addressed and now time to move on.

Addressing Todd. I can understand your feeling on some parts. The gay lesbian thing is about blasphemy to god's rule. I never get involved in it because it's also god's law not to judge someone. But when a guy keeps thowing in "white america" this and "white america" that, it's obvious this guy has not out grown the race issue. I see a double sided rule when something wrong happens. Imus was fired due to a DEMAND from Jesse and Al. There was no forgiveness or any chance to appologize and move on. It was "We DEMAND Imus be fired." By who's authority? And there was no backing off till he was. And for what, saying the same terminology used in inner cities across america by most of black america? This is half the problem. To stipulate a difference as to who is allowed to say a word IS in fact racism itself. It shows hipocrisy. So was the noose issue. Banning the noose trying to infer it means racism by whites somehow is just more bs fluff. Thousands of white law breakers were hung by a noose during the wild west days, for crimes like horse stealing. Prior to electricity and lethal injection, it was a way criminals were dealt with 14th, 15th and 16th centurys and beyond way before the black white issue came around. The noose was used to be a tool for justice to pay for serious crimes much like our death penalty today. I doubt 400 years ago they had black people in mind when putting a noose around a 16th century thief. I think most people like myself feel that if people would just stopped rehashing the issue over and over and over, it eventually would go away. The issue is being beaten to death. That pastor was preaching hate. And using god's house to spew it. A white person would have been crucified for spewing the same.

As to Collin, Collin Powell was going on intelligence he was given and was told was correct. I believe that was Bush's fault. My opinion, Collin Powell is far more superior a leader than Barac. I would have voted for him. I will agree to this though, neither side has a good candidate.

But I'm done discussing it cus it's just not worth the back and forth. Just like racism, we are going to get nowhere on it because we have differences in opinion. That is what america is about and I respect your right to counter my opinion. You have a nice week Todd.

 

[jimmydean]

A white person would have been crucified for spewing the same.

Unless you read a different book than I, I think it was a white person who got crucified that started this whole mess.

Imus got fired because he is an idiot. If the reverend was an on-air personality, you could fire him too.

 

[ska todd]

Addressing Todd. I can understand your feeling on some parts. The gay lesbian thing is about blasphemy to god's rule. I never get involved in it because it's also god's law not to judge someone.

It is also god's rule not to eat the swine, yet bacon is yummy...mmm bacon...

But when a guy keeps thowing in "white america" this and "white america" that, it's obvious this guy has not out grown the race issue. I see a double sided rule when something wrong happens.

Did you listen to Obama's speech at all? The whole thing or just sound bytes on the news or right-wing websites?

Imus was fired due to a DEMAND from Jesse and Al. There was no forgiveness or any chance to appologize and move on. It was "We DEMAND Imus be fired." By who's authority? And there was no backing off till he was. And for what, saying the same terminology used in inner cities across america by most of black america? This is half the problem. To stipulate a difference as to who is allowed to say a word IS in fact racism itself. It shows hipocrisy.

How exactly you get from this topic to Imus is a bit of a stretch, but ok, I'll bite since I'm having fun squashing the crap that doth speweth from thou mouth. Imus had a bit of history on NY airwaves with saying moronic things, getting slapped on the wrist, and doing it again. He didn't get canned directly b/c of Rev Al or Jesse, he got canned b/c advertisers were pulling out. They pulled out b/c they had egg on their face by supporting a kooky old wingnut who perhaps they didn't want to associate with but were doing so for simple financial gain.

Is Rev Al a nutter? Yep, certainly is. Is Jesse one? A bit less of one than Al, but sure he is to a degree. See my previous comment regarding attention getting/stepping over the line being their way-of-life.

So was the noose issue. Banning the noose trying to infer it means racism by whites somehow is just more bs fluff. Thousands of white law breakers were hung by a noose during the wild west days, for crimes like horse stealing. Prior to electricity and lethal injection, it was a way criminals were dealt with 14th, 15th and 16th centurys and beyond way before the black white issue came around. The noose was used to be a tool for justice to pay for serious crimes much like our death penalty today. I doubt 400 years ago they had black people in mind when putting a noose around a 16th century thief. I think most people like myself feel that if people would just stopped rehashing the issue over and over and over, it eventually would go away. The issue is being beaten to death. That pastor was preaching hate. And using god's house to spew it. A white person would have been crucified for spewing the same.

And the cross was used to burn Christians way-back-when, so when it's burned on someone's lawn today, it's being used for that use? How about the Swastika? It was used for ages by Native American and in Asian cultures, so when it's painted on the side of a synagogue it is to symbolize Native American culture?

It has nothing to do with the actual, physical noose but with the message it is portraying to a specific group of citizens. In most recent cases it is being used to instill fear and incite hate.

As to Collin, Collin Powell was going on intelligence he was given and was told was correct. I believe that was Bush's fault. My opinion, Collin Powell is far more superior a leader than Barac. I would have voted for him. I will agree to this though, neither side has a good candidate.

Do you seriously believe for one nano-second that the man who was then Sec of State, former head of the Joint Chiefs, and former Nat Security Adviser didn't know that what he was looking at was bunk, or at the very least didn't have the sense to question it and proof it out every-which-way to Sunday? Every single other fact, comment, and allegation promoted by the Bush administration in the time leading up to and during the initial stages of the invasion/war have turned out to have been patently false. In light of this, do you really believe that this "intelligence" was real? Surely, if anyone had the position, the means, and the competency to stop the march to war it was Mr. Powell. The simple fact that he did not question, did not have the fortitude, and just played the political game as he was instructed proves a serious lack of leadership.

-ska todd

 

[N8 v2.0]

oopsies!!!

Apparently not everyone has gotten the "We Luvz Obama" memo..

 

[Echo]

Man, BIGHITR, you are one racist sumbich.

 

[J-Dubs]

oopsies!!!

Apparently not everyone has gotten the "We Luvz Obama" memo..

HA! That was awesome!

Obama's got a White Moma, but Clinton gave us $$$$.
Who's the whore?

 

[$tinkle]

Unless you read a different book than I, I think it was a white person who got crucified that started this whole mess.

another lie perpetuated by the white man!

 

[N8 v2.0]

 

[jimmydean]

another lie perpetuated by the white man!

Jebus was a black Jew?

 

[FriedRys]

oopsies!!!

Apparently not everyone has gotten the "We Luvz Obama" memo..

That is the funniest speech I have ever heard. I could listen to that guy all freakin' day.

 

[N8 v2.0]

That is the funniest speech I have ever heard. I could listen to that guy all freakin' day.

he's got the liberal dim's dialed in

 

[N8 v2.0]

...and...


...obama sells out...



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531/ap_on_el_pr/obama

Barack Obama has resigned his 20 year membership in the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago in the aftermath of inflammatory remarks by his longtime pastor the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and more recent fiery remarks at the church by another minister.

 

[$tinkle]

african-america's chickens....they're coming home....

 

[jimmydean]

...and...


...obama sells out...



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531/ap_on_el_pr/obama

That's an interesting take. So am I a sell out for not going to the Catholic church I was confirmed in (16 years there) after I found out some kids I knew had been molested there?

I mean, why disown a church I went to for all those years just because of a little molestation?

I applaud him for moving past it and not staying in a church that has said things he doesn't agree with.

 

[N8 v2.0]

this issue aint as dead and buried as obama would like it to be...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

If the grandeur of delusion wasn't so enthralling, people might actually have their own thoughts...