[Tenchiro]

Why should the citizens of Baghdad pay with thier lives the mistakes of a handful of men?

 

[Serial Midget]

Who says they will or have?

 

[Silver]

Hopefully, we got Saddam with those cruise missiles. Otherwise, I'm worried that this is going to turn into a bloody mess.

Plus, I'd be willing to bet that the Kurds and Turkey get tangled up before this is over.

 

[patconnole]

There's the Sunni's, the Shiites, and the Kurds, right? (and a few christians here and there)


My dad said there's going to be a blood bath as soon as the "chaos" develops when there's no authority around for a few days. (correct me if I'm wrong here). Either the Shiites or Sunnis are the minority population, but they are the ones in power and make up the "elite" republican guard. they're pretty much guaranteed death by the US or the majority population.... so as soon as they lose power, 30 years of scores will be settled in just a few days.

Heard on the radio an Iraqi guy talking as he was fleeing with a crowd in baghdad. They were asking him if it's a good thing to get rid of Saddam; answered with an old Arab proverb, "A face you know is better than a face you don't."

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by patconnole
Heard on NPR

LIBERAL.

 

[patconnole]

I actually paused and thought about saying "radio." Just thought you guys deserved the truth though......

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by patconnole
I actually paused and thought about saying "radio." Just thought you guys deserved the truth though......

Just messing with you. I am a news junkie and listen to NPR in the mornings, watch the News Hour, FOX News (for entertainment :evil: ) and the big three in the evenings...

 

[IKE]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Why should the citizens of Baghdad pay with thier lives

they do anyway with saddam in power cabron

 

[patconnole]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Just messing with you. I am a news junkie and listen to NPR in the mornings, watch the News Hour, FOX News (for entertainment :evil: ) and the big three in the evenings...

I should start putting more smilies in so people know I'm kidding. "Thought you guys deserved the truth...." Couldn't say that with a straight face.

 

[Drunken_Ninja]

the death toll from the shock and awe campain is higher than cnn is saying. this is not a surgical strike that rumsfield would have you believe. All of the iraqi ministries that were destroyed are in heavily populated residential areas.

Iraq is going to start to smell foul. dead bodies that cannot be buried.

 

[manimal]

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
the death toll from the shock and awe campain is higher than cnn is saying. this is not a surgical strike that rumsfield would have you believe. All of the iraqi ministries that were destroyed are in heavily populated residential areas.

Iraq is going to start to smell foul. dead bodies that cannot be buried.

and your proof is......? agreed that the death toll is likely higher than reported, but...uh...it is war isn't it?

 

[LoboDelFuego]

Originally posted by manimal
and your proof is......? agreed that the death toll is likely higher than reported, but...uh...it is war isn't it?

Its not really a war, as much as 10 gangsters grabbing a guy off the street and beating him is a "fight." The majority of people who are going to die will be civilians. Military will be out of Baghdad or any of the major cities, and will be able to surrender to ground troops. You can't surrender to a bomb.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
the death toll from the shock and awe campain is higher than cnn is saying. this is not a surgical strike that rumsfield would have you believe. All of the iraqi ministries that were destroyed are in heavily populated residential areas.

Iraq is going to start to smell foul. dead bodies that cannot be buried.

No you are wrong. The civilian death toll is being caused by Saddam's security force rounded up civilians, killing them with hand grenades and tossing their bodies into the wreckage after the strikes.

But really this is no more true than what you are saying.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Tenchiro
Why should the citizens of Baghdad pay with thier lives the mistakes of a handful of men?

Why should terrorists slam planes into buildings? Why should the ruler of a country gas his own people? Why should the ruler of a country feed only the part of his country that agrees with him? Why should a country's leaders have soccer players tortured after a loss? Why should the ruler of a country authorize the torture and murder of those that simply disagreed with his rule?

Everyone has questions they would like answered.

 

[LoboDelFuego]

Answers:

To make a statement on their cause and to cause damage to their enemies.

Because he doesnt like the people or they are rebelling against his rule.

Because he likes those people and it will teach his people to agree with him.

So that that country can win the World Cup.

Because he wants complete command over his subjects and to unify the people through fear (hint hint).

I can't answer Tenchiro's original question though.

 

[Westy]

Originally posted by manimal
and your proof is......? agreed that the death toll is likely higher than reported, but...uh...it is war isn't it?

What I do not understand is how the US can take actions that is considered war from every level but not declared as war??? A declaration of war can only come from congress, but the President can order actions that can only be described as war. I guess the power of congress is only symbolic. IMHO we have the best form of government around but recent events point out a huge glaring loophole in the balance of power. Checks and balances should have had the congress specifically aprove recent actions.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by Westy
What I do not understand is how the US can take actions that is considered war from every level but not declared as war??? A declaration of war can only come from congress, but the President can order actions that can only be described as war. I guess the power of congress is only symbolic. IMHO we have the best form of government around but recent events point out a huge glaring loophole in the balance of power. Checks and balances should have had the congress specifically aprove recent actions.

Last fall Congress authorized the use of force in regards to Iraq. H. J. RES. 114 passed 10 October 2002.

Check your facts.....

 

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
the death toll from the shock and awe campain is higher than cnn is saying. this is not a surgical strike that rumsfield would have you believe. All of the iraqi ministries that were destroyed are in heavily populated residential areas.

Iraq is going to start to smell foul. dead bodies that cannot be buried.

You are high right?

Seriously tho, even iraqis agree (the majority anyways) that Sadaam has got to go. The problem is he does not listen to ANY form of negotiation except force. Look at his history, he will simply not comply if it means him losing his tyranical control of the Iraqi people.

He routinely beats, tortures and murders his own people for s hits and giggles.

 

[Drunken_Ninja]

Originally posted by Transcend
You are high right?

No. I was watching Peter Mansbridge on CBC Tv late at night.

There was some lady on talking about how hard it is to telephone her Iraqi family. She had indicated that the shock waves were intense and that the accuracy of the technology was not 100%.

Even the U.S. general Tommy Franks admitted that malfunctions were possible.

The lady was sincere.

Conflicting reports out of bagdad though. A day later cnn reported hundreds of casualties. I am not sure if the Red Cross has gotten in there yet. It could have just been a plea to allow humanitarian efforts to begin their work.

There are reasons that I hate war. Not sure that was all of them.

I don't really want to get involved in the argument of why war is wrong or right. I just hate the circumstances brought about surrounding war. Some people call that squeamishness. I just hate becoming desensitized by it and I detest finding out about it on television.

(still have to listen or watch just can't keep my head burried in the sand)

 

[Transcend]

Well I can agree with you there. War sucks ass, but in some cases it truly IS needed.

CBC isn't as bad as MSNBC (the worst IMO, followed closely by fox and then cnn) but still way off guard. I prefer to stay to the wires for news, Reuters primarily, they get such a large variety of reports in you can stay centered.

Technology is never infallible, especially when Iraq has GPS jammers (coalition forces destrotyed 6 of them today they found). Even without weapons may not respond. Hell, how many times have i had to reinstall windows in the last year?

There are definetly going to be casualties, its unfortunate, but it's war, people die. Especially when it's a you or me situation.

Latest news indicates that the US used an E bomb on iraqi tv today (EMP burst) so that will in no way help the telephone situation. Everything within the area is fried, including some TV stations fixed cameras in baghdad.

I am in no way desensitized to it, but as a political science student and soon to be (hopefully) a journalist based overseas it is truly astonishing to me to see a battle unfold live. It is unprecedented news coverage to say the least. I do agree that watching it PURELY on american tv does not give you the full story. It is skewed to the coalition side news wise, but never the less it is amazing to be there, as it happens. I am enjoying the coverage coming out of the war actually, not for the gore or stories, but for some of the amazing journalistic moments that have already emerged.

Originally posted by Drunken_Ninja
No. I was watching Peter Mansbridge on CBC Tv late at night.

There was some lady on talking about how hard it is to telephone her Iraqi family. She had indicated that the shock waves were intense and that the accuracy of the technology was not 100%.

Even the U.S. general Tommy Franks admitted that malfunctions were possible.

The lady was sincere.

Conflicting reports out of bagdad though. A day later cnn reported hundreds of casualties. I am not sure if the Red Cross has gotten in there yet. It could have just been a plea to allow humanitarian efforts to begin their work.

There are reasons that I hate war. Not sure that was all of them.

I don't really want to get involved in the argument of why war is wrong or right. I just hate the circumstances brought about surrounding war. Some people call that squeamishness. I just hate becoming desensitized by it and I detest finding out about it on television.

(still have to listen or watch just can't keep my head burried in the sand)

 

[N8 v2.0]

A Blast from the Past, featuring several RM Hall of Fame posters.

 

[clancy98]

yeah its a real polarizing issue because so many people LIKE war jagoff. Why didn't you just say what you meant:?

I hate george bush blah blah blah just like vietnam yadda yadda yadda American thugs picking on poor EVIL DICTATORS so on and so on regurgitated crap...

resolution 114 baby. are you sure you watch the news?

 

[I Are Baboon]

A Blast from the Past, featuring several RM Hall of Fame posters.

There should totally be a ridemonkey Hall of Fame.

 

[N8 v2.0]

There should totally be a ridemonkey Hall of Fame.

I thought there was already with the likes of Serial Midget, Stosh, Drunken_Ninja et al, firmly ensconced.

But if not, then there needs to a place for these the most uncommon of common folk.

 

[JRogers]

yeah its a real polarizing issue because so many people LIKE war jagoff. Why didn't you just say what you meant:?

I hate george bush blah blah blah just like vietnam yadda yadda yadda American thugs picking on poor EVIL DICTATORS so on and so on regurgitated crap...

resolution 114 baby. are you sure you watch the news?

whoa.