Nice one, I tried, but my photoshop skills suck!Snagged a screenshot...
I spy 2011...SRAM
- Thread starter Nagaredama
- Start date
That X0 graphic on the shifter leaver will be worn off in a few rides...
why 10 speed?
why 10 speed?
why war, why death, why electronic tin openers, 15 MP CCD sensors, 7 seat SUVs, why 10 speed, why oh why.
to sell new stuff?
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why 7 speed?
why 8 speed?
why 9 speed?
They all sucked until the next one came out, and then everyone fondly remembers the previous one.
Wait until 11 speed comes out and then everyone will sing the praises of 10 speed.
Or not.
My E guess is that Avid/Sram got tired of other brake manf's being able to use their product, and this is an attempt to get folks to use solely their products.what the?......how the?......looks nice. i am assuming this will also work w/out the fork shifter thing-a-ma-bob on there. i don't use matchmaker on my DH bike but i really really like it on my AM bike. good find, thanks.
This made me laugh
Edit: Misread
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Foo 10 speed, no need for a debate.
Really people, really.
Really people, really.
10 spd for mtb doesn't make sense IMO as a mechainic. The rear der will come out of tune easier and more often and it will be harder to tune back in. trade this for slightly smaller gaps between ratios? pass. i usually shift 2-4 gears at a time anyway. it's here because 10>9, nothing more. the average rider is not going to be able to feel a difference between the ratio gaps.
maybe there will be a 7 spd revolution. I hope someone catches on before it comes to 11spd, Chorus is a B**** to tune/in general.
maybe there will be a 7 spd revolution. I hope someone catches on before it comes to 11spd, Chorus is a B**** to tune/in general.
I've been using that set-up for a few mos now. It's sleek and dialed. Keeps your bars from looking like a rats nest of controls. The XX fork lockout is the first one I really like and find myself using. It's super fast and needs no effort. Find myself using it more than I ever expected.what the?......how the?......looks nice. i am assuming this will also work w/out the fork shifter thing-a-ma-bob on there. i don't use matchmaker on my DH bike but i really really like it on my AM bike. good find, thanks.
Campy has been going there for a cpl years already...
-ska todd
i think you should go back to mechanic school if you think 10speed is that much more worse.
the roadies have had no issue with their 10 speed drivetrain for years now. so much in fact that Campy has been using 11 speed for years.
i think bike part manufacturers have more of a grasp on the industry than you do. do you think Sram and Shimano would be coming out with 10speed if it didnt work??
Sram XX seems to work greatpeople bitched when 9 speed came out and this is no different.
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Are you saying the same drivetrain can be used for road bikes and mountain bikes with similar results and reliability? Maybe if we rode on asphalt with no mud, didn't jump, ride throuh rocks, drop chains and shift in panic every now and then?i think you should go back to mechanic school if you think 10speed is that much more worse.
the roadies have had no issue with their 10 speed drivetrain for years now. so much in fact that Campy has been using 11 speed for years.
i think bike part manufacturers have more of a grasp on the industry than you do. do you think Sram and Shimano would be coming out with 10speed if it didnt work??
people bitched when 9 speed came out and this is no different.
As for me, I'm replacing chains much more often than I did before I started using 9-speed. They stretch, break, bend.. just like they did before, but they do it sooner now because the links are thinner. I also had bunch of problems with old/bent mechs/hangers that wouldn't work properly anymore just because there was too little space to forgive any misalignment. I currently own three 9speed geared bikes and two 8-speed, so I speak from own experience.
Now think about it once more. It's actually not average MTB rider input which leads SRAM to push it. It's just that the technology can be taken from road bikes to MTBs and new products can be introduced and sold. Also consider they are going to sell even more new chains and cassettes, as they will wear a bit faster again, apart from the systems being incompatible hence generating more revenues by default.
I'm not saying we're going to use 8/9speed forever. Maybe we're all ending up on 10speed gear in a couple years' time. Not necessary because it's better. I guess top of line products will no longer support 8/9speed, and will all go to 10speed. For racing, more is good. For me, no thanks.
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I'll repeat myself, there's no place for derailleurs in future of MTB. Move to 10sp will just postpone their end-day. The more we'll be sticking with them the more we (customers) will pay for staying at the same place.
Basically.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_tyz3oxmMU-4/St6L2a_Lk2I/AAAAAAAAAak/OkCW0Xj0cCU/s1600-h/tim_portland_2.jpg
I rode XX for the first time last weekend. Stuff is pretty dope. I can appreciate tighter front shifting an a logical gearspread. Then again, 90% of my riding doesn't involve a chairlift or shuttle truck which must put me in cycling minority. I'm pretty sure the RM Downhill forum is the only place hating on the push for 2x10 right now.
yeah it's their Chorus group that i was talking about above. Ever built up a full Chorus roadie from scratch? was it fun dropping $150 wholesale for their special chain tool to be able to install the 'super-narrow' chain?
Sram was moving in the right direction with 1:1, X-#s are so easy to set up and keep adjusted. i'm sure 10spd will work, but that's not really the debate here.
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This is my personal opinion and what anyone else who isn't a technical master and full time perfection oriented mechanic would agree. For the layman, you know, the 90% of us who want to ride, that don't want to waste time on tuning our gears, 9 speed was a step back in tuning simplicity and maintenance. 9 speed takes less to throw off your shifting and you have to be more precise with your setup. And there is more room for mud to pack up during a day/weekend/week of riding.
8 Speed for DH I say.
Yep, because 10 speed for DH abuse and durability is less of everything a DH'er wants...or NEEDS.
obviously roadies arent going through muck and rocks like mountain bikers do, but their drivetrains see A LOT more usage then say a DHer. how often are you pedaling on your DH bike? more than a roadie would? and people do use Shimano road products on their DH bikes with no issue. granted bending/breaking your drivetrain is easier on a mountain bike and trying to dial in a bent rear derailuer is tough, but not a valid argument on saying 10speed is tough to get right
i think we all listened to people's bs complaints when 9 speed was around.
ohh the chains will break. ohh they will wear faster. no one will buy 9 speed! why do we need 9 speeds?!?!
Maybe I don't ride enough, or maybe it's just because I almost never ride in mud, but I rarely have to adjust my gears and I have never broken a 9 speed chain. I'm not a flyweight with chicken legs either. I am also a total crap mechanic and I when I do make adjustments (usually only with new cables and cable strech) I've never had a problem quickly dialing them in and then forgetting about them for another year.This is my personal opinion and what anyone else who isn't a technical master and full time perfection oriented mechanic would agree. For the layman, you know, the 90% of us who want to ride, that don't want to waste time on tuning our gears, 9 speed was a step back in tuning simplicity and maintenance. 9 speed takes less to throw off your shifting and you have to be more precise with your setup. And there is more room for mud to pack up during a day/weekend/week of riding.
8 Speed for DH I say.
Yep, because 10 speed for DH abuse and durability is less of everything a DH'er wants...or NEEDS.
I think 8 speed is plenty for DH but just don't understand the 10 sp bashing for XC-AM type riding.
I have had 2x10 XX drivetrain on my 150mm bike for the past 6 months. The stuff has been flawless...no, really. This includes a couple crashes, some smashes on rocks (Porcupine & Ortega), & flying with the bike on three occasions. Despite all of this typical "abuse", I don't think I have even really adjusted cable tension, much less set a wrench to it, since it's gone on the bike...oh wait, I adjusted the shifter position a couple different times...
-ska todd
-ska todd
i cant wait for Shimano to show their 10 speed stuff and RM to have another thread on how their 10 speed it pointless too.
do all the haters really think these companies would release a product in today's market that doesnt work??
do all the haters really think these companies would release a product in today's market that doesnt work??
There is such a thing as diminishing returns. Its just the latest thing to sell more product rather than a significant gain.
The auto industry has seen the same nonsense in automatic transmissions, especially the luxury segment. Going from 6 spd to 7 or 8 isn't going to make a huge difference that is worthwhile.
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Obviously, but as beaten to death multiple times, 2x10 really isn't targeted for DH. Perhaps SRAM will release a "saint" groupo of its own? Wishful speculation on my part, but it would seem logical since they have yet to portray 2x10 in mainstream 1x10 configurations using their Holzefeller cranks. Perhaps their holding out on releasing such information. They've never 'nailed it' with a downhill groupo like Shimano has, and SRAM is pretty progressive with new product developement.Yep, because 10 speed for DH abuse and durability is less of everything a DH'er wants...or NEEDS.
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I think the fact that IH8Rice, King of all Haters®, backs 10 speed equates to a papal blessing.
-ska todd
people said the same thing when 9 speed rolled around. why do we need 9 speeds? 8 is more than enough!
and have you ridden in a car with 8 speeds? most cars that do have a 8 speed tranny, usually stay in 2nd gear when initially starting out and when there is a brief stop. plus the car is always in the right gear going up and down hills, making the tranny not wander trying to find the right gear...this is especially helpful if the car is loaded down with fat business men.
in cars like the IS-F, 8 speed is a bit crazy since it adds so much more weight to a high-end sports car
its like having a CVT in a car, its always in the right "gear"
lol, i give this comment my pope wave
youve obviously ridden 10 speed. im sure you can see the benefit in having it....maybe not so much for DH, but for everything else there is a benefit.
as someone who work for a large bike company, im sure we'll see more companies putting 10speed drivetrains on their higher end bikes right?
So it's agreed thing. We can move the thread.
That doesn't change the fact that there are diminishing returns especially as the ratios get closer. Going from 4 to 6 is significant, going higher, not so much. The hunting in cheaper 6 speeds is from poor programming. Besides most people don't like CVTs even thought they are always in the right gear.people said the same thing when 9 speed rolled around. why do we need 9 speeds? 8 is more than enough!
cmon ppl...this is just another group to hold us over until SRAM releases that internal hub they have been working on that will pretty much kill the rear mech.
you know it's coming...
Hell that might be why they havent released a dedicated DH group, this might be the driving factor, it only makes sense they would do that with Shimano being the direct competition.
you know it's coming...
Hell that might be why they havent released a dedicated DH group, this might be the driving factor, it only makes sense they would do that with Shimano being the direct competition.
Well, Shimano might try releasing rapid-rise again for the 5th time.
Quoted for truth.
I agree been saying it for awhile.
as nice as some of this stuff is I still don't see the relevance of 10spd on a DH bike
I run a mix of 7spd/5spd rears make my own cassette mods out of my AM clusters XTs/ Ultegra 11/23/21s and run spacer at the low end and drop 2 above gives me a better chain line, better closer ratio's and next time I wheel build a better dish for a stronger wheel.
As use as the gap has closed etc and narrower chain which will mean weaker
More has an effect on Dish especailly if using a bigger cog at the extreme end like a 36. a weaker wheel when everything else is being stiffened up, e.g frames components, rims spokes etc just to add more gears and weaken the wheel is bizarre I can see it for XC/Trail but for AM with Hammerschidt WHY!
For DH Srams needs a DH groupo like Saint and it dosent need to be 10spd.
Even hacks and I'm a Ham and Egger these days, can see the benefits feel them for a DH bike.
If ya riding uphill then that's what ya doing wrong, DH is about momentum pedal rotation e,g spinning another reason why we run 165mm not just clearance, it gives better power to acceleration out of corners etc etc.
Ive been converting my hack Dh mates onto smaller shorter ratio's and the bastids are now flying, ok pedaling up the fire road is harder but what the hell that's not a DHs bike job, push and talk then ride back down!
Even Peaty at Canberra raced an 11/26 road spd cassette in 10spd, why did this give him anymore of an advantage of a 9spd 11/26 yes closer ratio between gears but also an extra cog he could have saved even more weight.
That ll said there's some nice stuff there from Sram and it all looks good, I want it to suit and ride good too, I don't need more for DH less is good, like weight we all want less not more so why go the other way with gears HELLO, as Austin would say
That Vivid air looks hawt for trail AM LT rig though, codes are hawt yadda yadda, Bring us a Saint Sram group Sram
All this "better dish for a stronger wheel, less gears for a better shift".. It's great from a theoretical standpoint.
But come on!!!
People forget the weight of these factors when there are soooo many other factors that play into something as complex as a good wheel, or a drivetrain that shifts well.
But come on!!!
People forget the weight of these factors when there are soooo many other factors that play into something as complex as a good wheel, or a drivetrain that shifts well.
Sorry dude, but if you're worried about the weight of one small cog, then maybe you shouldn't be in the DH forum. I think 'monkey has an XC forum.
you cant make a 29lb DH bike with extra cassette cogs!
Please explain why a narrower chain is weaker, what part of the chain do you break? I have some ideas why it might be stronger.
Also, please fill me in on how the dish is changed by adding an extra cog if the distance between the outside cogs hasn't changed, just the spacing between them.
Thanks.
And for all the haters of 10 speeds, grab that Shimano set up, peel off the largest spider and you have a 7 speed cassette that would be narrower and set up centered on the free hub with spacers will improve your chainline and you get the holy grail of 7 speed on a dh bike and you still get to have the anti ludite latest tech...and I get a run on sentance.
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XO brakes look similar to the Elixrs
and its funny how the cranks say X0 and Truvativ on them
and its funny how the cranks say X0 and Truvativ on them
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