[N8 v2.0]

I WANT MY GI SON TO SERVE UNDER BUSH
NY Post.com | October 26 | STEVE DUNLEAVY

The cliché goes: "Just business, nothing personal."
The hell it is.

John Kerry makes me weak in the ankles — and now it's personal, not business.

In the next few days, there will be a person reporting for duty in Iraq. His name is Army Capt. Peter J. Dunleavy.

Capt. Peter J. Dunleavy is not one ounce more special than the guys and gals he will go to Iraq with — no more special than the thousands of the brave boys and girls who have gone before him, and those who will certainly go after him.

He is, of course, special to his wife, Debbie, his mother, Gloria, his brother, Sean, Sean's girlfriend, Laura — and his friends in the sports bars who cheer for the Giants.

He is special to me, as are all the thousands of boys and girls who serve this country, because he looks at fear as a headache and duty as the ultimate.

And yet, John Kerry makes it look like those guys and gals are just victims — wrong war, wrong time, wrong place.

How dare he say that to our brave boys and girls? How dare he whisper it — let alone shout it to the whole world?

Now I am somewhere in Oklahoma to see off Capt. Pete, 37, my eldest boy. I ask him what he makes of Kerry's talk.

"Dad, we don't listen to politicians. We listen to our commanding officers," he says, growing bored already with the conversation.

I ask him where he is going in Iraq, what he will be doing, as all the worried parents of so many thousands of brave boys and girls surely do.

"Don't know. I'll just go where I am needed," he says matter-of-factly.

Sunday he left for another base, where he will be re-equipped, before taking off to Iraq in a few days.

On Saturday night, Pete and wife Debbie, a reservist in the Navy, had their last night out for a long time — at the Navy Ball.

It was there that Pete was given the official honor of re-enlisting his wife for another two years.

Capt. Pete is not worried about Kerry's outrageous statement — wrong war, wrong time, wrong place — because he's stronger and braver than that.

But I sure am worried.

In my book, Kerry is giving comfort and succor to the enemy. And don't forget that Tokyo Rose got jail time for it after World War II, and Jane Fonda, Kerry's soul mate, should have during Vietnam.

"Look, don't worry. I have been in the Reserves for more than 10 years — we are all well-trained, well-equipped," said Capt. Pete.

"To be honest, apart from having to leave Debbie back here, I'm psyched," he told me. "It's a privilege to serve and be given a new chapter of experience.

"I'll just knock this tour over and get on with it. No biggie."

I was in Baghdad last year, and it was very easy for me. Death was everywhere, but no one was shooting at me.

But that won't be the case for Pete and the men and women with him.

"Dude, don't worry about it," Capt. Pete says again.

And that's the attitude of the thousands below him and above him, the brave men and women doing the fighting.

But this father does worry — and worries even more about John Kerry.

When John Kerry says wrong war, wrong time, wrong place he undermines not my boy, but our boys. He embarrasses the United States abroad and he saps morale.

And that demands the severest reprimand. It is duplicity and cowardice and political opportunism of the worst kind. It's enough to make you cry.

I don't care what's on your watch, Sen. Kerry, this one's on my watch.

And then we come to the final "see ya later" at the airport. We hugged — and I couldn't talk.

Then I felt something strange — for the first time, after a lifetime of feeling like an adolescent, I felt old. Sending a kid off to war does that, I guess.

So Capt. Peter J. Dunleavy — and all the guys and gals that are going with you, and all that are there, and all that will come after you — go for the sake of our freedom. For the sake of your wife Debbie's freedom, your mother Gloria's freedom, your brother Sean's freedom, his girlfriend Laura's freedom — and the freedom of the boys in the sports bars cheering for the Giants.

Heck, for the sake of your dog's freedom. His name is Salty Dog. He loves you so much.

To you and all your comrades: Go with God.

 

[MikeD]

That's such a load of crap. Saying it's the wrong war attacks the civilian commander in chief who ordered the action, not the troops who execute it. Just like the good Captain says, he goes where he's told to go by his commanding officer and shoots who he's told to shoot by his commanding officer. And he'll continue to do so under any civilian commander in chief.

Anyone who feels otherwise-and I know there are plenty of people in the military who do, because I work with them every day-has his political views mixed up in what should be his apolitical military ethic.

MD

 

[DRB]

What a bunch of crap.

Ruppert Murdoch's imported attack dog. Same guy that defended the NYPD in the Louima and Diallo cases. Same guy that called John Gotti a man of honor, eventhough that honor including killing and stealing.

 

[narlus]

verdict is in:

LOAD OF CRAP.

n8, more cntrl-c/cntrl-v, please.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

verdict is in:

LOAD OF CRAP.

n8, more cntrl-c/cntrl-v, please.

No, you mean Alt+F4 and Ctrl+Alt+Delete^Shutdown+Enter

 

[Tenchiro]

Personally I wouldn't want my son to serve under a man that would send him off to die, just to settle a personal vendetta...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

I would not want my son to serve under anybody with enough power over him to send him to send him to a certain death if so he/she wishes, else jail.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Since both of these guys (Bush and Kerry) still have to do the same friggin job in Iraq, and Kerry's plan happens to be the exact same as Bush's (except he says he will bring in allies to help, though those same allies have gone on record to say that they wont help regardless of who's elected) I dont see what it matters. I like Bush just fine for the time being, but its not like either of them are going to get out there and kill the terrorists themselves. WTF is this argument about? They've pledged the exact same things.

 

[Skookum]

Since both of these guys (Bush and Kerry) still have to do the same friggin job in Iraq, and Kerry's plan happens to be the exact same as Bush's (except he says he will bring in allies to help, though those same allies have gone on record to say that they wont help regardless of who's elected) I dont see what it matters. I like Bush just fine for the time being, but its not like either of them are going to get out there and kill the terrorists themselves. WTF is this argument about? They've pledged the exact same things.

Your still going on conjecture. It's pretty well established that errors were made in Iraq, some maintain that Iraq itself is a mistake, and all of it can be tied to this administration. Bush makes his primary strength his foreign policy. Yet still you don't believe someone else could do better. Hell i'd vote you into office over Bush, at least you have creative ideas with that "We're gonna nuke you leaflets.."

 

[BurlyShirley]

Your still going on conjecture. It's pretty well established that errors were made in Iraq, some maintain that Iraq itself is a mistake, and all of it can be tied to this administration. Bush makes his primary strength his foreign policy. Yet still you don't believe someone else could do better. Hell i'd vote you into office over Bush, at least you have creative ideas with that "We're gonna nuke you leaflets.."

But my point is that all Kerry's campaign has been is conjecture. Otherwise, what he has said is EXACTLY what the bush plan is, only he says "I can do it better" real matter-of-fact like and people buy it. Why? I could understand if he'd done something really well in the past, but what has he done to earn this free pass? You can think Bush is bad, and thats fine, but besides Kerry laying out the EXACT plan of Bush's, what can be said about him that proves he can do it better? Did the Bush administration make mistakes? Certainly. Has there EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD been a war fought without mistakes? No. And no one has ever lived without making one either.
Now people want to say "But he wont admit it" NO ****! Why on earth would he give his detractors a soundbite like that so close to an election or in such a time of turmoil? I just think that the only reason people are voting for Kerry is because he isnt Bush, and that's dangerous. "Well its not as dangerous as keeping bush around" How the **** do people know that. This guy is a scumbag pandering POS if Ive ever seen one.

 

[MikeD]

With Iraq as it is now, there's basically only one way to tackle it. I think either candidate would end up basically reacting to events and doing damage control. There's no significant input going to be had from other nations or from Iraqis themselves in the near future.

MD

 

[Skookum]

But my point is that all Kerry's campaign has been is conjecture. Otherwise, what he has said is EXACTLY what the bush plan is, only he says "I can do it better" real matter-of-fact like and people buy it. Why? I could understand if he'd done something really well in the past, but what has he done to earn this free pass? You can think Bush is bad, and thats fine, but besides Kerry laying out the EXACT plan of Bush's, what can be said about him that proves he can do it better? Did the Bush administration make mistakes? Certainly. Has there EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD been a war fought without mistakes? No. And no one has ever lived without making one either.
Now people want to say "But he wont admit it" NO ****! Why on earth would he give his detractors a soundbite like that so close to an election or in such a time of turmoil? I just think that the only reason people are voting for Kerry is because he isnt Bush, and that's dangerous. "Well its not as dangerous as keeping bush around" How the **** do people know that. This guy is a scumbag pandering POS if Ive ever seen one.

Bush is campaigning strength is on Iraq. That's his strength..... Why should anyone in their right mind vote for the guy if that's his strength.....

 

[BurlyShirley]

Bush is campaigning strength is on Iraq. That's his strength..... Why should anyone in their right mind vote for the guy if that's his strength.....

I beleive that the emphasis has been on security, which Iraq is lumped in with. Seriously, honestly, had kerry's votes been the deciding factor on what this country did while he was in the Senate, we'd be alot further behind than we are right now with intel and the weapons to fight this war. Just because he says "im going to be stronger on security" doesnt mean anything. He just says it and his actions havent conveyed it. Iraq would not be a strength for either, but I dont see how you are saying Kerry would be better when he has pledged THE EXACT SAME PLAN.

 

[Changleen]

How is his plan the same? He has said he will attempt to be more multilateral about it...

 

[BurlyShirley]

How is his plan the same? He has said he will attempt to be more multilateral about it...

I already adressed this. The countries he is talking about have already gone on record to say that they wont help regardless of the outcome of the election. Its just more lip service.

 

[B_A_MTBIKER]

I agree, Kerry says he would get help from other nations and develop Iraq, but what if the other nations don't help out as they have already said. Is Kerry going to send those who will help and our troops? (Same as Bush did)

 

[Changleen]

I think you'll have a much better chance with Kerry. After all you really can't do much worse than Bush's diplomatic missions. Look at the great job they did in North Korea and Iran. I think diplomacy often has a bit more of a chance if you don't start 'negotiations' by jumping in feet first and saying 'These are our utterly inflexible condidtions. Comply or be subjegated!'

Remember when the US joined the N Korea discussions with the UK, Germany and China last year? They were going on for a week or so then the US turned up and collapsed the talks within one day! Nice job.

 

[B_A_MTBIKER]

Bush has no foreign relation skills that is for sure.

 

[bpatterson6]

I agree, Kerry says he would get help from other nations and develop Iraq, but what if the other nations don't help out as they have already said. Is Kerry going to send those who will help and our troops? (Same as Bush did)

I think that's an obvious answer...
Kerry is gonna do whatever he thinks you will like today...
He flows like the waves in the Ocean. Ever Changing.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Bush has no foreign relation skills that is for sure.

I dont think that is necessarily true. I just think he's a little harsh for "gay TV france" and other such countries, but as of recent, Putin put forward what sounded like an endorsement for Bush, because he witnessed alot of terrorism first hand in his country. This war is a matter of perspective. The best defence is a good offense.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

I dont think that is necessarily true. I just think he's a little harsh for "gay TV france" and other such countries, but as of recent, Putin put forward what sounded like an endorsement for Bush, because he witnessed alot of terrorism first hand in his country. This war is a matter of perspective. The best defence is a good offense.

Once again, you're forgetting Poland...

 

[Slugman]

Both of them are rich, entitled, well connected bullsh*t artist. Both will lie. Both will come up with excuses and reasons that things are not the way they promised.

The difference - Bush has pissed off an alienated a lot of nations, Kerry actually has a chance to get some assistance from them. Most of the nations that will not join in with Bush's coalition will be more open to helping Kerry. Is that because Kerry is such a great guy? F*ck no! It's because he's not Bush...

And don't give me this indecisive /flip-flop crap... anyone who looks at the voting record and claims that is ignorant of how the political process "works" in this country. Besides, GW has done plenty of Flip-Flopping himself.

And I love the use of "gay TV" as a derogatory statement... especially since France is only now broadcasting to a segment of its population that the US has been courting for MANY years. The Gay TV leader happens to be the USA.

Some people react so weird to homosexuality, I wonder if they are not hiding something? They must miss the all male "camaraderie" of their past...

 

[B_A_MTBIKER]

I dont think that is necessarily true. I just think he's a little harsh for "gay TV france" and other such countries, but as of recent, Putin put forward what sounded like an endorsement for Bush, because he witnessed alot of terrorism first hand in his country. This war is a matter of perspective. The best defence is a good offense.

I think that Bush took the wrong approach when he was "waiting" for other countries to join the offensive by saying: well we're going in there regardless if you help or not. I think it could have been done differently and with more regard to other countries being allies and with them we would be better off than if we go it alone.
*More importantly I am not siding with either candidate.*

But I do agree that the best defense is a good offense.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Both of them are rich, entitled, well connected bullsh*t artist. Both will lie. Both will come up with excuses and reasons that things are not the way they promised.

The difference - Bush has pissed off an alienated a lot of nations, Kerry actually has a chance to get some assistance from them. Most of the nations that will not join in with Bush's coalition will be more open to helping Kerry. Is that because Kerry is such a great guy? F*ck no! It's because he's not Bush...

And don't give me this indecisive /flip-flop crap... anyone who looks at the voting record and claims that is ignorant of how the political process "works" in this country. Besides, GW has done plenty of Flip-Flopping himself.

And I love the use of "gay TV" as a derogatory statement... especially since France is only now broadcasting to a segment of its population that the US has been courting for MANY years. The Gay TV leader happens to be the USA.

Some people react so weird to homosexuality, I wonder if they are not hiding something? They must miss the all male "camaraderie" of their past...

Well the Gay TV was a jab at how liberal the country is in some certain aspects as opposed to President Bush's whole platform, not just his view on Iraq. I dont think I am incorrect to say that pro-gay and liberal go hand and hand (no pun intended there).
But back to the issue, these countries have GONE ONE RECORD SAYING THEY WILL NOT HELP regardless of who wins. Now, sure, you could always say that they MIGHT change their minds, but is that a reason to vote for a guy. He is claiming that they WILL change their minds as a matter of FACT. And he is pledging to go into this war with that basis. But WHEN this does not happen, then what? His strategy is the same as Bush's. Also, why are you so quick to dismiss his entire record? Bush 'allegedly' misses some reserve duty and you guys go off like he raped a nun, but Kerry votes against every main tool we have to fight terrorists today, and you give him a pass. The guy also prances around like he's ****ing Alvin York or some crap, and there's photos of the guy chucking his medals over the white house fence. He wrote a book that has an upside down American flag on the cover. WTF is that? What kind of president does that? Hopefully none.

 

[BurlyShirley]

If I had a son I wouldn't want him to join the military at all. I would hope that I would raise him to be more than a drone.

Good luck, doesnt seem like he has much for influence. Learn to judge people as people instead of occupations sometime ****face.

 

[Changleen]

Oh, It's past somone's bedtime...

And Burly, I think ONLY France and Germant have said 'No' to helping. That leaves a few other countries by my count...

 

[MMike]

.....but most importantly: "load of crap"

 

[Silver]

I dont think that is necessarily true. I just think he's a little harsh for "gay TV france" and other such countries, but as of recent, Putin put forward what sounded like an endorsement for Bush, because he witnessed alot of terrorism first hand in his country. This war is a matter of perspective. The best defence is a good offense.

Or maybe Putin thinks that now would be a good time to secure an iron grip on his country and get rid of stuff like elections, since he has a "terrorist" problem to deal with.

Of course, an ex KGB hack probably doesn't think like that...

 

[MikeD]

If I had a son I wouldn't want him to join the military at all. I would hope that I would raise him to be more than a drone.

Yep, it'd be far better that he gets raised to enjoy the benefits of his society without ever sacrificing anything, or learning the values of service to others. Raise another selfish American, please. I also wonder what your potential son might ever do that doesn't involve following directions from some heirarchy, whether it be academic, occupational, military, governmental, or simply social, unless you want to raise him to be the Unibomber.

That was the stupidest thing I've ever seen you write. Military people have to make decisions with potential strategic political implications under the worst stress imaginable, usually without direct control by a superior. Hardly drone work, even if we get paid crap for it. And don't blame the military for the stupid decisions of elected officials, if that's your true motivation.

MD

 

[Skookum]

He wrote a book that has an upside down American flag on the cover. WTF is that? What kind of president does that? Hopefully none.

Why not? An upside down flag is a signal of distress. Really the whole sacred symbol of the flag thing is really really stupid imo. So anyways Kerry goes overseas becomes dissillusioned and has a platform as a citizen to speak his mind. While George lives up the good life snorting coke and driking rum and cokes. But how many years ago was that now?

And the best defense is allowing open borders at Mexico? Bush is ALL about cheap labor, not homeland defense. And a good offense? We have the best offense in the country, but not the best commander in chief. Mistakes in this war can be easily seen as going straight to the top, from Abu Gharaib, to anticipating Iraqi's greeting us with open arms. There are people much smarter than both of us who are convinced the whole operation itself was a mistake, some of them on this board.

The one cool thing out of this deal is knowing Saddam Hussein is gonna get his comeuppance. After a realistic evaluation you really only get that versus the price we will have to pay for his head, it'll be at an inflated price. Was it worth it? If you're Bush's accountant it's be hard to argue against the war.

You see the argument was raised about this war about security. i think a high number gave the administration the benefit of the doubt after 9/11. After the dust has settled many are no longer convinced at all. The few who weren't from the start made predictions and forecast alot of what has come to pass, but you and others in this country seem to ignore alot of that.

But there are many other issues i don't like from Bush. i don't like the outsourced jobs, i don't like the new wage laws, i don't like his environmental policies, i don't like the idea of losing my social security, the deficit, the misguided nationalism, the poor economy, the religous fundamentalist stance on scientific and social issues. It's not that i don't like Bush, i don't even know the dude, but i can still tell he's a frail little bitch and has never been in a real scrap, but that's beside the point. He hasn't done good for me, i think someone else can do better.

It'll be an interesting election for sure. They anticipate a record turnout, as with everybody i'm interested in seeing how it all pans out, and will be glad when all the stupid political commercials are discontinued.

 

[MikeD]

Why should I raise someone to be a soldier, whose primary two jobs are 1) to kill, and 2) to die? Yes, you are right that there are many many military positions that require more than drones, it was harsh and not a very intelligent statement to make. However, the fact is that the 2 primary jobs of a rank and file soldier are to kill and to die. ( I will not go into the right and/or wrong if it, though.)

Because for a society to continue to exist, there have to be people willing to fight, kill, and die. I *personally* couldn't feel a part of a society or entitled to its benefits unless I'd done my share of the watch-standing. But I also don't believe in complusory service or anything...I'd rather that those who didn't share my feelings stayed at home. (Now I feel like Col Nathan R. Jessup)

Killing and dying are also not necessarily drone work. It's a thinking man's battlefield...but you need the ability to think in the real world under stress as well as the abstract, and need the physical prowess and courage to make your thoughts reality.

Anyhow, yeah, I'm glad we're an all-volunteer service, and I have mixed feelings that I signed up and worked to become a Marine infantry officer...about as 'signed up' as you can be...and they've kept me in Southern California the whole time, so I'm not some battle-hardened vet. I went where they told me to go, like a good drone, I suppose.

MD

 

[Toshi]

MikeD, what do you think of heinlein's "starship troopers"? it it, service was not compulsory but one couldn't vote without having served. i think i've asked you about this before, but can't remember what you wrote in response, if anything

 

[BurlyShirley]

I don't care if I offend the Assistant Ball Fondler, especially if all he can come up with is "f**k face".

Well what's it matter...You've already apologized like a good little girl because you realized you were an idiot to say that.

 

[BurlyShirley]

No, I apologized because unlike you I actually take other peoples point of view into consideration and try to view things with an open mind. If you want to argue or start a flame war, let's do it offline. Don't be an ass and insult me here where I may not see it for a while.

I didn't come to RM to make enemies or debate with closed minded individuals such as you. I came to make a couple of friends, and maybe hook up with some new folks to ride with.

I have read your posts and they are nowhere near the level of Mike D's posts, or Skookum's, or Toshi's to name but three. Hell, they are no where near even my own posts. But like I said, if you want to have a flame war with me or insult me, then let's do it off line. I am sure that most of the people here don't want to read your petty little diatribe anyway. You can reach me at msnunez@gmail.com. Flame on bi**h.

You call people who have served in the military drones, and then get on me for flaming? You call something alot of people take to heart demeaning, and yet you say you didnt come here to make enemies? Whatever dude. I think you need to take a look in the mirror if you want to talk about petty diatribe. You did call me "ball fondler" just like I called you something else. If you dont want to hear what I have to say, there is an ignore feature available to you. I offer a different point of view than most here and I think some appreciate that, and probably some dont. Most of us in this forum just have fun with it, but apparently you've got some anger issues that you need to deal with. I could really give a rip about emailing someone who cant even take a shot back without getting pissed after saying something pretty bad that was completely untrue. What do you want to settle offline? A fist fight? Good thinking If you want to call people stupid and drones, be man enough to handle people getting pissed at you. Period.

 

[Changleen]

You call people who have served in the military drones, and then get on me for flaming? You call something alot of people take to heart demeaning, and yet you say you didnt come here to make enemies? Whatever dude. I think you need to take a look in the mirror if you want to talk about petty diatribe. You did call me "ball fondler" just like I called you something else. If you dont want to hear what I have to say, there is an ignore feature available to you. I offer a different point of view than most here and I think some appreciate that, and probably some dont. Most of us in this forum just have fun with it, but apparently you've got some anger issues that you need to deal with. I could really give a rip about emailing someone who cant even take a shot back without getting pissed after saying something pretty bad that was completely untrue. What do you want to settle offline? A fist fight? Good thinking If you want to call people stupid and drones, be man enough to handle people getting pissed at you. Period.

Can I play, You Ball fondling Drone?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Can I play, You Ball fondling Drone?

Sure, you jew-hating sheep ****er

 

[Changleen]

Sure, you jew-hating sheep ****er

Yay! I declare this the insult thread! (Points deducted for using the same insult twice)

Burly, you are a cave-living, backwards-looking, change-fearing, gay-hating, xenophobic, budweiser-drinking, white-sock wearing republican freak.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Typical sh!tty N8 post.

 

[B_A_MTBIKER]

Now its just getting funny.

 

[Changleen]

Burly's away till Sunday, so no more insult trading with him... I think Golgi was having a go, but I wasn't sure. Plus I don't know what to call him...