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I watched an incovenient truth last night

Reactor

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
Westy said:
If we can link killing oil bearing muslims, killing non oil bearing non muslims or killing jews to reducing emissions it might catch on. Maybe a program where if you drive a car with a sub 2.0 liter engine you get jew gold.
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Man, if their skins made good fur coats they would really be in trouble....
 
Echo

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
It's downright funny how N8 just ignores Westy's valid questioning of his sources. Just provides more proof of my theory that N8 is actually a diehard liberal who is just here to make fun of conservatives by acting like an average conservative moron.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Westy said:
I'm really interested in this data so I tried to find it.

A google search on this reference only brings up someone else's post in another forum and a blog Curiously exactly the same as your post. I'm sure you didn't copy it.

Anyway digging deeper on the matter I did find this paper that references the Kreutz data. The document is an abridged version of a full paper.
http://www.warwickhughes.com/agri/BeckCO2short.pdf
-I could not find the full paper.
-The abridged document is only found on a bloggers website and does not seem to be published in any recognized journal.
-Although references others data it contains no bibliographic data.
-Contains several spelling and grammatical errors,
-Cites the difference in CO2 measurement data but makes no attempts to explain the cause of the difference, it just assumes the higher ones are correct.
-Makes no attempt to explain the source of the trillions of tons of CO2 that caused the 1940's rise nor explains where it went.
-The Beck data shows historical wildly fluctuating CO2 levels yet in the last 60 years of modern measurement changes are smooth and comparatively gradual.
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Maybe this might help you;
http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/Kreutz_J__1_[2].pdf




It is also known the ice core samples show that increases in CO2 lags increases in temp... not the other way around.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Oh... the much touted "hockey stick" of global warming has been rejected by the National Academies...



Based on the analyses presented in the original papers by Mann et al. and this newer supporting evidence, the committee finds it plausible that the Northern Hemisphere was warmer during the last few decades of the 20th century than during any comparable period over the preceding millennium. However, the substantial uncertainties currently present in the quantitative assessment of large-scale surface temperature changes prior to about A.D. 1600 lower our confidence in this conclusion compared to the high level of confidence we place in the Little Ice Age cooling and 20th century warming. Even less confidence can be placed in the original conclusions by Mann et al. (1999) that "the 1990s are likely the warmest decade, and 1998 the warmest year, in at least a millennium" because the uncertainties inherent in temperature reconstructions for individual years and decades are larger than those for longer time periods, and because not all of the available proxies record temperature information on such short timescales.

http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=6222006
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Further debunking:
http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/home/07142006_Wegman_Report.pdf


14/07/06

End of the hockey season

It seemed a bad day for science and truth when the IPCC swallowed the notorious hockey stick graph and published it as fact. The new political and media establishment dutifully took it up and the dogma was unquestionably accepted and imposed on a credulous world. A thousand years of history, science and arts were swept away and declared void, as the well documented phenomena of the Little Ice Age and the Mediaeval Warm Period were suddenly deemed never to have happened. It was Orwell’s Ministry of Truth on a world scale and with horrific effectiveness. The resistance movement was almost entirely confined to the internet.

Link: http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/2006_july.htm#hockey
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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,430
22,519
Sleazattle
I don't have time to read the document right now but a quick glance shows Kruetz measurements vary wildly on a monthly and daily basis. In a 4 day period he shows C02 levels at a low of .035% and a high of .07%, it doubled in less than 24 hours. In November of 1939 he shows a low of .02% and a high of .07% less than a month later. There must have been some crazy **** going on in them days to cause swings like that.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
I am not saying that Global Warming doesn't exist any more than I am saying Jeebus doesn't exist...

but I am saying that information on the subject is, more often than not, incorrectly potrayed as stone-cold fact by the media when it is at best conjecture and theory.
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,430
22,519
Sleazattle
N8 said:
Maybe this might help you;
http://home.wanadoo.nl/bijkerk/Kreutz_J__1_[2].pdf




It is also known the ice core samples show that increases in CO2 lags increases in temp... not the other way around.
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The author of that paper seems to be an unpublished independant researcher who frequents physics and climate forums/blogs. My favorite gem of his is
So here is the idea, after this exemplary version of my kampf, the logical next step is to make climate deniers distinghuisable in public. I propose that they are obligued to wear a yellow star of the size of a hand with the text "deniers" in gothic font. Then they are prohibited to visit public places. Meanwhile we build concentration camps and start the razzias. Oops, wrong war.
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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,430
22,519
Sleazattle
N8 said:
I am not saying that Global Warming doesn't exist any more than I am saying Jeebus doesn't exist...

but I am saying that information on the subject is, more often than not, incorrectly potrayed as stone-cold fact by the media when it is at best conjecture and theory.
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I'll have to agree with you there but on the same note wholesale denial of the possibility by those in charge is just downright irresponsible. Global warming is just one of many reasons why we should be aggressivley pursuing alternative energy sources.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
So the bottom line is that you have to believe in global warming and that you as 'man' are a sinner against Mother Earth. But Mother Earth will forgive you if you follow a eco-friendly lifestyle and your off spring will be saved.. and you will feel good inside. However, if you do not repent, you and your future generations will be damned to a firey inferno forever (at least until the Sun expands into a red drawf).


The hardcore scientific community is not on board with that.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Westy said:
I'll have to agree with you there but on the same note wholesale denial of the possibility by those in charge is just downright irresponsible. Global warming is just one of many reasons why we should be aggressivley pursuing alternative energy sources.
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the problem is that you have to believe that man has the power to stop/prevent/slow down global warming.

there is ample historical evidence to show global warming and global cooling have nothing what-so-ever to do with something so inconsequential as man... seeing as though we've only been on a 4 billion year old planet for only 250,000 or so years...
 
LordOpie

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
N8 said:
the problem is that you have to believe that man has the power to stop/prevent/slow down global warming.
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but AGAIN, why not try?

If we make no difference to the planet, at least we'll create a healthier environment for our kids, yes?

Seriously, please answer my question as to why not try?
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,205
1,393
NC
I'm sorry, but regardless of your stance on global warming, anyone who thinks that man's impact on the earth is "inconsequential" is either badly deluded or not paying attention.
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
The atmosphere is not all that vast. It has been compared to a layer of varnish on a billiard ball. That's about the scale of it.

The hole in the ozone seems to be improving too.....man made the hole, man changed habits, and the hole is going away.....all in like 10-15 years.

I got all this info from the movie.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
narlus said:
yeah, man's impact on the earth the past 200 years is virtually indistinguishable.
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i blame urban concentrations.... too many people and too much concrete.

perhaps these will meet a self-generated demise when the polar ice caps melt and wash them away.
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
LordOpie said:
huh? Colorado fire fighters do it pretty much EVERY summer and sometimes 3-4 times a year.

So you're saying we have a good chance at improving things?
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i am saying that nature causes forest fires and that there is nothing we can really do to stop them from happening (short of cutting down all the trees I suppose).

We can react once they happen but it's pretty much impossible to stop them from occuring.

Global Warming could be similar... we can't stop it from happening... i
 
Kihaji

Kihaji

Norman Einstein
Jan 18, 2004
398
0
MMike said:
The atmosphere is not all that vast. It has been compared to a layer of varnish on a billiard ball. That's about the scale of it.

The hole in the ozone seems to be improving too.....man made the hole, man changed habits, and the hole is going away.....all in like 10-15 years.

I got all this info from the movie.
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Maybe, while there may be evidence, there is no proof. As far as we know it could be a naturally occuring phenomena.

And as to LordOpies question, tell the militant environmentalists to sell it like it is, truth in advertising and all. Instead of the "OMG we are all going to get baked by the sun and be destroyed because you drive an SUV and use hairspray", or instill some fallacy that man can actually subvert the natural cycle of the global weather system to do his bidding all by using cloth diapers. Sell it like they used to, because it's cheaper in the long run, because it preserves the areas you like to enjoy for your children, because it's the right thing, and considerate thing to do.

Now, how about you answer some of the other sides questions for a change, instead of sidestepping them by invoking the name of Republican, or GWB, or something else entirely unrelated. Oh, wait, because doing so might shatter your views, and then where would you be?
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,430
22,519
Sleazattle
N8 said:
it's a pretty good bet that 400 million years from now it will be reguarded as such.
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Oh sure mankind will probably be just a blip on the history of the earth but and our end will most likely be our own doing the questions is do you want that end to come sooner or later? Your house will eventually rot away and fall down so why not just light it on fire now?
 
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