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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Shots from Madison, WI. The governor is trying to pass a bill that would basically destroy all public sector unions (aside from police/firefighters, who coincidentally were the only unions who actually endorsed the current governor), and people are just a little upset. So far the Democratic Senate members have blocked a quorum by fleeing to IL, and protesters are descending on my sleepy little town...







Firefighters are exempt from the bill, but they showed up in solidarity and the crowd went nuts...



Go bagpipers!!

 
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IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
Teachers start out at a salary of $25,222 here in WI, and that's with a Master's degree required. God knows what student loans they have.

Yeah, greedy unions.... :rolleyes:
probably should have thought of a better profession then. janitors make more then that and probably dont have any student loans to pay off. :D

i know this will obviously turn into a union debate, but they are no good IMO...especially when your state is hurting for money
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
probably should have thought of a better profession then. janitors make more then that and probably dont have any student loans to pay off. :D

i know this will obviously turn into a union debate, but they are no good IMO...especially when your state is hurting for money
My state's not hurting for money. According to the governor's own budget committee, the state deficit this year is only $137m.



And that's after the $140m tax cut he pushed through earlier this year. :think:
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
A news analyst here in DC talked about how Wisconsin is basically the home of collective bargaining, especially for public sector workers. He went on to say that this was a resistance to change by people that feel they are entitled to unions and bargaining and that even though the cuts were needed for fiscal reasons, they would resist change because they had grown up with the "my parents were union, their parents were union, etc".

Edit: posted before I saw Dante's WI budget posting...
 
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IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
My state's not hurting for money. According to the governor's own budget committee, the state deficit this year is only $137m.



And that's after the $140m tax cut he pushed through earlier this year. :think:
ive seen a few numbers thrown around but this has come into the limelight a few times
Republican leaders said they expected Wisconsin residents would be pleased with the savings the bill would achieve — $30 million by July 1 and $300 million over the next two years to address a $3.6 billion budget shortfall.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41644074/ns/us_news-life/
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
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looking for classic NE singletrack
ive seen a few numbers thrown around but this has come into the limelight a few times

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41644074/ns/us_news-life/
The $3.6b is fictitious. It's based on every single state agency's budget going up by 6% (per year), with no additional revenue to last year (ie, recession year).

How else could there be a $137m deficit this year, and one that is 26x larger next year? :think:

Even the governor admits that there is NO actual monetary savings from the union busting. His $300m in savings comes from requiring union workers to contribute more to their pensions/health care. The "fiscal component" (as stated by his budgetary office) of the prohibition on negotiating is a big, fat $0.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
The $3.6b is fictitious. It's based on every single state agency's budget going up by 6% (per year), with no additional revenue to last year (ie, recession year).

How else could there be a $137m deficit this year, and one that is 26x larger next year? :think:

Even the governor admits that there is NO actual monetary savings from the union busting. His $300m in savings comes from requiring union workers to contribute more to their pensions/health care. The "fiscal component" (as stated by his budgetary office) of the prohibition on negotiating is a big, fat $0.
oh, well thats info i hadnt heard before until now. i hadnt heard about the $137m figure either, but im sure you would know more then me on that.

besides for little or no monetary value saved from this, a union's collective bargaining is their worst attribute
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
A news analyst here in DC talked about how Wisconsin is basically the home of collective bargaining, especially for public sector workers. He went on to say that this was a resistance to change by people that feel they are entitled to unions and bargaining and that even though the cuts were needed for fiscal reasons, they would resist change because they had grown up with the "my parents were union, their parents were union, etc"
Not really. I mean, WI has about normal union membership for a state that's not a "right-to-work" state, and the unions in question are the same public sectors that are unionized throughout the country (teachers, nurses, correctional officers, etc).

On the flip side, since WI is the home of collective bargaining, the fall of unions here would energize GOP governors/legislatures across the country though.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
besides for little or no monetary value saved from this, a union's collective bargaining is their worst attribute
Team wal-mart WOOOO!!!!.



This is one of those arguments that kind of annoy me. Unions and collective bargaining came out of a NEED for unions and collective bargaining. Kind of like the whole gubbamint regulation of ANY flavor......we already tried that shlt, because that was the default at the outset of the industrial revolution and everything previous. The world, and especially the US and upton sinclair have already lived the alternative (IE: their absence). IT SUCKED.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Not really. I mean, WI has about normal union membership for a state that's not a "right-to-work" state, and the unions in question are the same public sectors that are unionized throughout the country (teachers, nurses, correctional officers, etc).

On the flip side, since WI is the home of collective bargaining, the fall of unions here would energize GOP governors/legislatures across the country though.
Yeah, after reading your fiscal numbers, can't really see the Gov's point other than a notch in the gun stock for union busting.

On a side note, if those are accurate teachers salaries (and again, you'd know better than us) they don't need a union or collective bargaining, they need NFL agents to get them the $$
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Yeah, after reading your fiscal numbers, can't really see the Gov's point other than a notch in the gun stock for union busting.

On a side note, if those are accurate teachers salaries (and again, you'd know better than us) they don't need a union or collective bargaining, they need NFL agents to get them the $$
The budget numbers are hard to get ahold of, since it's all on a biennial basis and there's enough accounting tricks to shift expenses from one to the next, but WI is by no means the worst state in terms of budget deficits.

I mean, even by the worst estimates, it's 23% of the annual GSP.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711

Which is less than states like South Carolina (26%), even though WI has a unionized workforce of 15% compared to the (right-to-work) state of SC (4.5% unionized). North Carolina is even worse (30.6%) with regards to budget deficit, and has an even LOWER unionized workforce (3.1% unionized).

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t05.htm

The problem isn't unionized government employees..........
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
If you like having a weekend, then unions have benefited you personally.

Wisconsin is the line in the sand against the next step in destroying the middle class. It makes me pretty damn proud to see what these folks are doing.