I went to a protest, and a capitol broke out.
- Thread starter dante
- Start date
So what you're saying is that because you have some examples of car manufacturers, that means all unions are bad always everywhere...........Toyota, Honda, Nissa, BMW, MB, VW all are union free Stateside with the first two dominating the US market. 30% of a UAW worker's dues add to the over $1bil strike fund
life is just a bit different from when Unions first actually made a difference and when they first started appearing.
And jesus dood, you really think toyota's success is because of non unionized labor and has nothing to do with things like my 99 tacoma with 250 k miles on it without a single problem?
Teachers should just hire Drew Rosenhaus and televise their classroom battles.
"Ms. Jeanty. Masters in Education from ASU. 5'7" 135.
40 child dash: 57 seconds
Desk shuttle run: 17.84 seconds
Shows fortitude and an incredible ability to catch spitballs mid-air.
Wants: School with minimum 3.25 cumulative GPA, field hockey team with .500 record or better, on-campus parking pass for Volkswagen Passat."
See? Easy.
"Ms. Jeanty. Masters in Education from ASU. 5'7" 135.
40 child dash: 57 seconds
Desk shuttle run: 17.84 seconds
Shows fortitude and an incredible ability to catch spitballs mid-air.
Wants: School with minimum 3.25 cumulative GPA, field hockey team with .500 record or better, on-campus parking pass for Volkswagen Passat."
See? Easy.
It is quite a fine political tactic actually. You are going to see something similar with the federal government shutdown.
When faced with a ridiculous bill that will pass without debate or modification, your vote means nothing.
Now if you bailed out on something minor, you look like a loser, but this is the most important bill the legislature is going to face this term and for many more.
The key here is popular support. If the Democrats had little, it is assured they will lose their seats in the next election cycle. But if it is a popular movement, many people will support them.
On a different note, the polling is mixed, but it depends on the wording. If you think issue is about collective bargaining, you might support the protest. If you think it is about union givebacks, then you will probably be against.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/18/labor-union-polls-wisconsin-protests_n_825363.html
This could make for an interesting Saturday. Dante you must go and take pictures.
There is a
worthy video that accompanies the story @ the link.
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The unions agreed last night in principle to the *fiscal* aspects of the bill (basically all of the actual union givebacks that would have a direct fiscal impact on the state budget). Now the only thing that Walker is still pushing for is the practical dissolution of the unions...
Now that he doesn't have his "I've asked unions to give a little more" talking point, I'm wondering how the GOP is going to try to spin this?
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_a05349be-3be1-11e0-b0a1-001cc4c002e0.html
Dammit, Dante, get off the RM and get down there to get video... this is starting to get entertaining.
Jesse Jackson rallies protesters at Wis. Capitol
Now, we'll have Tea Party, Jesse and if Al would show up..
Jesse Jackson rallies protesters at Wis. Capitol
I think that "a real Martin Luther King moment" needs that little tm sign.
Now, we'll have Tea Party, Jesse and if Al would show up..
token black guy?Dammit, Dante, get off the RM and get down there to get video... this is starting to get entertaining.
Jesse Jackson rallies protesters at Wis. Capitol
I think that "a real Martin Luther King moment" needs that little tm sign.
Now, we'll have Tea Party, Jesse and if Al would show up..
it's wisconsin after all...
And they just took it racial... Wonder what % of WI teachers are non-white. That would be an interesting statistic to have.Dammit, Dante, get off the RM and get down there to get video... this is starting to get entertaining.
Jesse Jackson rallies protesters at Wis. Capitol
I think that "a real Martin Luther King moment" needs that little tm sign.
Now, we'll have Tea Party, Jesse and if Al would show up..
"they just took it racial"?????
Who's they?
Got anything to say that the protesters and or unions invited him along?
And nowhere in the entire article or the video linked to on that page is there any mention from him of anything other than workers rights, and he was only using all inclusive terms nothing racially based.
Well, the state is 90% white, Madison 83%.
I'm sure Jesse Jackson will fit in just fine...
Ummm, the part I quoted about him calling it a "real Martin Luther King moment"???"they just took it racial"?????
And nowhere in the entire article or the video linked to on that page is there any mention from him of anything other than workers rights, and he was only using all inclusive terms nothing racially based.
But hey, if you want to equate asking a sector of public workers to contribute more to their health care and pensions to the trampling of basic human rights of an entire race, then feel free....
The spooks. You know, the ones who have their hands in the pockets of guys like the Joker who are the productive class, so they can go out and smoke crack and eat fried chicken while he's working as a slave to the undermensch."they just took it racial"?????
Who's they?
Jeez, the worst thing about protesting is that I'm not connected to the interwebs. Stupid 3 year old "dumb" phone.
By the way, did you mean this guy? Everybody was following him around for some reason...
Headed over today, and crowds were insane. They said 70,000 (50% more than yesterday), but it looked MUCH larger. I would've guessed 2x to 2.5x as many as yesterday, but it was hard since the square is a mile around and there's really no way to see everything at once (aside from the helicopters going overhead).
Didn't even bother trying to get into the Capital since there was a line that stretched halfway down the block just to do so. Can't imagine how many people were in there, since previously there have been up to 5,000 inside and it hasn't been full....
The tea party did show up to protest, and there might have been a couple thousand? When they were contained in their little protest they looked pretty small (comparatively), but their rally only lasted a little over an hour and then filtered out through the crowd to heckle the protesters.
Otherwise the signs were the best part (sorry, didn't bring my longer lens, so weren't able to get close up shots unless I was right in front of it):
I agreed with this guy 100%.
She had a cookie monster hat on.
Then we took the riot over to the local brewpub and had a violent thoughtful discussion about our differences of opinion over a couple pints (it is WI, afterall).
We went to go back to protest, but the sun was setting and getting cold. So we went off to another bar to drink our differences away.
All in all it reminded me of a tea bagger rally but with better spelling and proper grammar and punctuation. (And about 15x bigger than any tea bagger rally I've been to.)
Well done Sir! Must spread.....
As I noted, the GOP tried to vote on the bill on Thurs *before* they'd even scheduled the session to begin. Here's the full news story on it (and timeline), and here's one of the assemblymen's response.
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Oh, uh, speaking of which I was apparently on Nightline on Friday, and on various news stations around the country...
So Fri morning I was getting ready to pick my wife up at the airport (she was retuning from a business trip), and about 10:30am I see on the news that while it was assumed that all Democratic Senators were out of state, Mark Miller (D) was rumored to be at his house. The head of the Senate sent out the Sargent at Arms and a state trooper (also commanded by his DAD)!!!! to round him up and bring him physically down to the senate. (There's conflicting law on this. The Sargent at Arms is tasked with bringing Senators to the Senate if necessary, and can recruit the State Police to help. On the other hand, lawmakers are protected under the State Constitution from being arrested while the legislature is in session.)
Mark Miller is my Senator. He lives in my town. He lives 2 blocks away from me!!!!
Holy fawk!! I grabbed my "Thank you Mark Miller" sign (that I'd made up that morning just for the regular protest), hopped in my car and made it over and saw ~5 news reporters and no cops (yet). House looked empty, so I just stood in the driveway with my sign... Next thing I know the news reporters are coming around to shoot video of me.
Trooper+Sargent at Arms showed up, knocked on the door of the (empty) house, got back in their car and left. (I was chanting "This is not what Democracy looks like" the whole time, mainly because sending the state police to "round up" political opponents isn't exactly what I come to expect here in the US) Gave an interview to a couple different reporters about how Miller's sole job is to represent me, and since he's doing what I asked him to do, I think he is doing his job.
Here's the Nightline clip, I show up for ~3 seconds at the end. Skip ahead to 5min in, and excuse the fact that I look completely ridiculous. I wasn't exactly thinking I was going to be on tv that morning...
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/
(first video, "Wisconsin Protests")
Yep. He nailed his lines though...
SHUTTAP, I've made it through 7 years and 6,000 posts without a custom title, and that one would only be applicable for the 3-4 months out of the year that I actually grow a beard.
This MUST be Dante's custom title.
So today the protest was much smaller, probably due to the sh!tty weather (raining and ~33deg). The inside of the capital was still packed with 5,000 to 8,000 supporters, and a couple hundred brave souls walking around outside. Headed over to a separate protest that hasn't been getting much attention, the absolute gutting of Medicaid in this state.
The new bill gives the state DHS (governor's office) absolute control over most of the Medicaid requirements (as opposed to the current situation where the legislature has control)
Just another Christian act by our god-fearing governor. I mean, if he was alive Jesus would obvious be kicking 70,000 poor people off of the health care rolls...
edit: Here's a pretty good opinion piece by the (normally) right-wing jsonline.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116433754.html
The new bill gives the state DHS (governor's office) absolute control over most of the Medicaid requirements (as opposed to the current situation where the legislature has control)
Then the bill states that after the DHS has control over the Medicaid requirements, it is to petition the US Gov't for a waiver on minimum requirements, and if that is not granted to drop it to the lowest federally mandated minimum (130% of the federal poverty level, or $29,000 for a family of 4). This would effectively kick ~70,000 parents and adults off of Medicaid.
Just another Christian act by our god-fearing governor. I mean, if he was alive Jesus would obvious be kicking 70,000 poor people off of the health care rolls...
edit: Here's a pretty good opinion piece by the (normally) right-wing jsonline.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116433754.html
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Ah yes, reverse reverse-psychology.SHUTTAP, I've made it through 7 years and 6,000 posts without a custom title, and that one would only be applicable for the 3-4 months out of the year that I actually grow a beard.
It will not work on bv, I'm afraid.
"Dear WI People,
We are so, so, SO sorry. We really are. Can we take our endorsement back now?
Thanks,
Wisconsin Troopers Association"
First of many endorsement retractions?
We are so, so, SO sorry. We really are. Can we take our endorsement back now?
Thanks,
Wisconsin Troopers Association"
First of many endorsement retractions?
Cockmuncher........ 
Here's the latest from the AP, and why it's SO IMPORTANT that bargaining rights are curtailed:
First bill: Tax cuts for corporations (supposedly who create jobs, but far more beneficial to the McDonald's type of jobs than *actual* high-paying jobs)
Second bill: Tax cuts for HSA (health savings accounts). Average taxpayer salary in HSA, $138,000. Half of the contributors withdraw nothing each each year.
Third bill: This bill, stripping collective bargaining rights (amongst a host of other terrible, terrible ideas).
Fourth bill: The next bill, the budget bill that will strip $1b in school and community funding.
I'm just AMAZED that the Senate leader actually admitted what was coming, since that makes it LESS likely to support this, not more. Wississippi, here we come.
Here's the latest from the AP, and why it's SO IMPORTANT that bargaining rights are curtailed:
WTF? So far everything has been passed in a certain order so that if we'd known about the NEXT bill, we would never have passed the CURRENT one.
First bill: Tax cuts for corporations (supposedly who create jobs, but far more beneficial to the McDonald's type of jobs than *actual* high-paying jobs)
Second bill: Tax cuts for HSA (health savings accounts). Average taxpayer salary in HSA, $138,000. Half of the contributors withdraw nothing each each year.
Third bill: This bill, stripping collective bargaining rights (amongst a host of other terrible, terrible ideas).
Fourth bill: The next bill, the budget bill that will strip $1b in school and community funding.
I'm just AMAZED that the Senate leader actually admitted what was coming, since that makes it LESS likely to support this, not more. Wississippi, here we come.
Shady......
No sh!t. So far every single bill has been brought forward and passed before the next one is even publicized. That Fitzgerald is even admitting what is coming up in the budget bill is shocking in its candor.
Also, I forgot to mention, there's rumor that as part of the budget bill there's going to be a provision limiting the amount of revenue that municipalities can generate in property-taxes. So not only is he slashing state spending on education, he's ACTUALLY PROHIBITING voters in the different districts from voting to raise that money themselves. He's literally trying to use the state office to force districts to either lay off teachers, gut programs, cut salaries, or all of the above.
I'm so glad I don't have kids right now. I can't imagine the devastating effect that this is going to have on the local school districts.
As a follow-up, the "divide and conquer" strategy seems to be working. When we took our riot into the local brewpub on Saturday, we talked a little with a Walker supporter. He was there to show his support for the budget plan because he was on a school board and had had contentious negotiations with school teachers in the past... He wanted to see their negotiating rights eliminated.
I wonder how he's going to feel about Walker when the $1 billion in school aid cuts come down.............
I wonder how he's going to feel about Walker when the $1 billion in school aid cuts come down.............
The best legislation money can buy!
The most important part of politicking is creating a consensus.
We like to criticize the bad bills like the Assault Weapons Ban or the Health Care bill for too many compromises, but at least they got passed.
Walker is insistent that his bill is going to be accepted without modification, but the thousands of local protesters, the Democrat senators taking a walk, and the intense national scrutiny makes that extremely difficult.
California learned this lesson with Schwarzenegger, who put some anti-union propositions on the ballot, and ended up losing almost all of them. What ended up happening was his eventual decline.
We like to criticize the bad bills like the Assault Weapons Ban or the Health Care bill for too many compromises, but at least they got passed.
Walker is insistent that his bill is going to be accepted without modification, but the thousands of local protesters, the Democrat senators taking a walk, and the intense national scrutiny makes that extremely difficult.
California learned this lesson with Schwarzenegger, who put some anti-union propositions on the ballot, and ended up losing almost all of them. What ended up happening was his eventual decline.
The one and the same "Koch"?The best legislation money can buy!
Koch Brothers annihilation of democracy
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Dammit, i don't know what is funnier...this one or #22.
Yes, corporations do better without unions.
And rapists do better with roofies.
'must spread rep' indeed...someone hit up Silver for me.
the other great thing about that vid was the lead-in advertisement for stool softener.
Was at the protests for a couple hours today, and whereas yesterday the turnout seemed depressed by the weather (rain, hail, snow, etc), today they were easily back to the numbers from mid-last week. There's a sheet of ice on everything, the wind was howling, and it's currently 25deg (realfeel of 4), but there were probably 15-20k+? More maybe? Part of it was that it's a state furlough day (something agreed on to help out with the budgets by the previous governor), but part of the rest of it was that there was just an overwhelming number of people, union members, retired, kids, etc. One guy I was talking to had driven up from Chicago to stay with a friend of his, another one said his parents were out visiting and while he couldn't make it tomorrow, he was sending his parents instead.
Ian's pizza was still handing out free slices (I had a slice ordered from someone in Texas), and other companies were out there handing out free food as well. Inside the capital was packed to the point that there was a line out the doors (capacity ~8,000 people), and I was simply amazed at the amount of people just marching around the square in some pretty crappy weather.
Tonight we're getting some musicians to show up, and it's said that Jesse Jackson will be back tomorrow. Also, the Senate leader has stated that they won't vote on portions of the bill without the Democrats present, which is actually a HUGE win for the Democrats. The rumor going around today was that the Republicans were going to vote on the non-financial aspects of the bill (like collective bargaining) since they don't need the 20 senators present for that... It's a small victory, but the fact that it's the first instance of the GOP *not* cramming this down our throats is a positive sign.
Oh, and in the more sobering moments today, I saw (no camera, crappy weather) a group of people walking towards us holding signs that said "this is not the Democracy we fought for".
They were Hmong, which has a pretty big ethnic presence here. Very, very sobering moment when you think about them *actually* fighting for Democracy.
Ian's pizza was still handing out free slices (I had a slice ordered from someone in Texas), and other companies were out there handing out free food as well. Inside the capital was packed to the point that there was a line out the doors (capacity ~8,000 people), and I was simply amazed at the amount of people just marching around the square in some pretty crappy weather.
Tonight we're getting some musicians to show up, and it's said that Jesse Jackson will be back tomorrow. Also, the Senate leader has stated that they won't vote on portions of the bill without the Democrats present, which is actually a HUGE win for the Democrats. The rumor going around today was that the Republicans were going to vote on the non-financial aspects of the bill (like collective bargaining) since they don't need the 20 senators present for that... It's a small victory, but the fact that it's the first instance of the GOP *not* cramming this down our throats is a positive sign.
Oh, and in the more sobering moments today, I saw (no camera, crappy weather) a group of people walking towards us holding signs that said "this is not the Democracy we fought for".
They were Hmong, which has a pretty big ethnic presence here. Very, very sobering moment when you think about them *actually* fighting for Democracy.