So your advice was based on hype and speculation rather than on the company's real (poor) productive capability.
Congratulations. You cashed in, but in doing so reinforced the worthlessness of what you've been doing.
I win! (But more importantly, cancer loses.)
- Thread starter stoney
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Congratulations. You cashed in, but in doing so reinforced the worthlessness of what you've been doing.
you must be new here, that's how the stock market works.
that's beyond my medical knowledge, so i'll take your word on it.
buying opportunity for the true believer ... always better cars to be had
I'll take it. We made more from that speculative investment over three years than I ever could have imagined. Also, I made that money as an individual investor speculating in a biotech company. I was invested in the company long before I made my first stock recommendation to any client.
As for the 'what I do' part, you realize that I left finance 3-months ago and am not going back, right?
Oh, and if you had gone out on a limb and put $1000 into the stock when I first suggested it back in 2007 you could have made north of $5k. But hey, who am I to suggest that someone working in a specific industry, might know something about that industry...
I might not be a scientist but I know how the market works. Positive news (to the layman speculator) will lead to a spike in buying, which will lead to momentum traders, then retail investors getting involved. Once retail gets involved, then mutual funds will get involved. It's a game of hot potato, just hope you aren't stuck with it.
As for the worthlessness of what I do... I do appreciate the kind words, really. At least I was open to the world about going into a career to chase dollars. If you were doing your job for the love of the patient, I would hope to see you moving to a third world country to volunteer your services. I mean, I wouldn't want to see your generosity of being a doctor wasted by making a profit.
And it is something that I have been debating all morning. While they missed forecasts, the long-term hasn't changed. In a down market like this, traders and hedge funds alike will pile on selling a company like this short.
It's a quarter by quarter industry now and if you are looking at investing, you take advantage of these momentary pitfalls.
But then again, according to Toshi doing this is worthless... I should probably be donating every dollar I make over my needs to charity.
I'm a charity.
Lulz. Isn't everyone?
I'm aware of that, and that's why I phrased it as "what you've been doing" rather than "what you do."
I'm motivated by profit, too, I won't deny it. There's a reason I didn't go on to get a PhD in something and then surf xkcd all-day long bemoaning my fate--I was realistic.
But then again, there's also a reason I didn't go into finance. Many if not most of my classmates at Harvard went on to do consulting for Wall St, investment banking, or working at hedge funds whether as quants or traders. I thought about that route and declined, just as I'd declined to enlist in the military before (cool toys but it's not my goal in life to be a marionette for politicians).
So, getting back to it: yes, I'm motivated in part by a desire to do well for myself and profit. But I specifically chose to do what I do rather than any number of other alternatives because I get to earn a living by directly helping people of all socioeconomic stripes every day.
No, just me. Now fork over the greenbacks.
So how exactly do you propose one store their cash that provides a return greater than the rate of inflation?
I was willing to take a huge risk with a large portion of our cash and it paid off. My IRA's are substantially larger than they were pre-DNDN and we're in a better place for our long-term security.
While the details of the transaction are different, you are still taking a huge risk (school loans) on a career that could provide a good level of security in the future for you and your wife. Did you know that six years from the time you started school your specialty would be in demand? Did/do you know if the career path you chose will pay your debts?
No matter how you look at it, we both decided to take big risks on our future. Mine just happened to pay off early, and will pay off long-term as the results of that risk are able to be spread out over years of future investing.
I took risks that would involve me doing something worthwhile for society whether or not they paid off financially. That's the difference.
Inflation adjusted bond products seem like a solid (if conservative) product that will protect one's investment without resorting to trying to catch a wave of hype and speculation created at least in part by the very people selling these goods. Otherwise investing in dividend-paying stocks, or, hell, buying a few A shares of Berkshire Hathaway could do it, too.
Inflation adjusted bond products seem like a solid (if conservative) product that will protect one's investment without resorting to trying to catch a wave of hype and speculation created at least in part by the very people selling these goods. Otherwise investing in dividend-paying stocks, or, hell, buying a few A shares of Berkshire Hathaway could do it, too.
You're right Toshi. Clearly I am a horrible person for making money in a way that didn't benefit the whole of society. I really should go out and get a job at a non-profit where my lessons learned at bilking people out of money can be used for the greater good.
As for investments, I took a few big risks when I was in my mid-20's that paid off last year. The money in our IRA's are now sitting in primarily dividend generating blue chips. I know how to invest and I know how to speculate. I also know how and when to use each applicably. I made a few speculative investments into companies with products that I felt would be for the greater good.
I don't invest in oil or coal, no car companies or consumer product companies like Apple. Although there is a lot of money to be made in those areas. I focus on companies with products that have the potential to be beneficial to society long-run. I am mostly in dividend generating blue-chips in healthcare and non-cyclical consumer goods (think grocery stores and the like). I also have dividend generating utility companies that focus on geothermal, nuclear and wind energy sources. My speculative investments are in LED manufacturers and smart-grid businesses. All of these businesses are ones that will benefit as we move away from coal and oil based energy sources and promote the more efficient usage of the electrical grid.
'Investing' in companies like Zipcar or Tesla are the epitome are speculative, no matter how green they are. The same goes for most green businesses - solar, wind, LED, etc. They are not profitable and any investment into those companies is speculative. But making the investment, albeit speculative, is where you an I differ. I have put my money where your mouth is, investing on the hope that society will correct itself to become a efficient and environmentally conscious.
Given how focused and judgmental towards others you are, with regards to being green and socially friendly, maybe you should look into some pre-IPO investments in those types of companies? Because before they hit the public market, you are truly investing in the future of the company, not how much you can profit from it.
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Stoney got suckered in by the troll. 
No, it's not Mooshu. That's just stupid. Toshi is quite articulate in his arguments normally, and this argument is out of his norm beyond his disdain for anyone from the Street.Stoney got suckered in by the troll.
If anything, I'm trying to figure out why he's so butt hurt. Was it because while he called the science worthless, he was still wrong the stock? Or because he didn't get involved? Or maybe because anybody who does well for themselves, and not the collective, is an apparent leech?
Who knows... Oh, and I forgot a
My point is that you were hyping a product that you had an interest in. I called it out on the science. The market eventually caught up, but only after you'd made your ill-gotten gains.
All my IRA money is in oil-gas companies, btw. I read earning reports, not just patterns in tea leaves and the like.
All my IRA money is in oil-gas companies, btw. I read earning reports, not just patterns in tea leaves and the like.
You can call them ill-gotten gains, but how is profiting from oil and gas companies not the same? I clearly mis-understood the science, but I was buying into what I believed in. You own gas and oil companies, which you disdain? Profiting from your disdain? There is some hypocrisy there, no?
I don't disdain oil and gas companies. It's not their fault that our government is too dysfunctional to do much of anything, let alone impose a properly sized Pigovian tax. Therefore the proper thing to do, assuming continued lack of such a tax in the future, is to follow the money.
Note that this is different from arbitrage, let alone arbitrage in which one's own hype has a non-negligible effect on the prices of the assets in question.
Note that this is different from arbitrage, let alone arbitrage in which one's own hype has a non-negligible effect on the prices of the assets in question.
Come on... you think Joker's post on RM had an impact on the price of that bio stock? 
Multiply his exhortations by 1000 analysts all acting on the same groupthink...Come on... you think Joker's post on RM had an impact on the price of that bio stock?
the ship keeps taking on water
i'm always weary of folks that talk so openly about their personal finances. 
lol....I went back in forth with the two. had a 50/50 chance!I'm always wary of people that use the wrong words... they make me weary.
Looks like the Dendreon dream is over...
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021629509_sundaybuzz18xml.html?
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021629509_sundaybuzz18xml.html?
Wow this thread is ready to be made in to a for TV movie. Good stuff RM.
Thread needs re-titling. "I Win- And some poor bastard somewhere lost his life savings AND got the cancer"
Look who the cat drug in!
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ORLY?
yes, congrats to those long-term investors.
Lulz.
Like cancer?
Yeah... Looks like Dendreon is as dead as the little bird in Mark's avatar. Too bad.... I was rooting for them. ?Don't know anyone with prostate cancer but my Ex just got over Breast Cancer.
this thread took 4 years to matude and deliver... but dayum, the lulz jackpot arrived...