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i5 or i7 iMac?

Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
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my Mac mini is getting long in the tooth. I'd like to play games and run an RC plane simulator (Aerofly, if you're curious), and these things won't fly with the integrated graphics and 1.66 GHz Core non-2 Duo on my current mini-box.

the best deal out there in mac-land seems to be the quad core 27" screen iMac. (since it has a monitor, clearly, i'd eBay my mini and my current, nice HP LP2475w monitor as part of the deal.)

the question: which config to get: the one with the Intel i5 chip or the i7? it's always tempting to take the upgrade if offered but is it prudent? what about graphics cards (ATI Radeon HD 4670 vs. 4850)? as mentioned I do plan on taxing the graphics card at least a little bit...

i figure I'll wait until after the macworld show in early february 2010 just to assure a lack of surprises, plus by then the insurance settlement for my sadly-stolen scooter will be in. (i hope to replace it in the spring with a cheaper, used proper motorcycle so there should be a bit extra for this endeavor...)

 
crohnsy

crohnsy

Monkey
Oct 2, 2009
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Pretty sure I saw the test on macrumors or appleinsider that going to the i7 is a pretty decent bump in performance.

But if you are on a budget I would atleast go with the 8gb ram upgrade over the processor.

Here is a handy guide useful for when to buy any particular Apple product:
When To Buy A Mac


how much you asking for your mini? ^^
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
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i'm going to toss it up on eBay with a $1 min. bid and no reserve (same with the monitor) and see how it does. that's how i roll. :D this won't be until february or so, mind you.

finally, i intend on upgrading the RAM, sure, but certainly not at apple's OEM prices!
 
crohnsy

crohnsy

Monkey
Oct 2, 2009
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yeah apple isn't the cheapest place t get ram thats for sure. I think they dropped their prices alittle bit, but still cheaper to get aftermarket for sure.

Damn i woulda gave you $1 for it now :P
 
crohnsy

crohnsy

Monkey
Oct 2, 2009
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T Bay
~$1999 gets you the 27" imac

2.66 i5
2560X1440 LED display
4gb ram
1tb HD
8X DL superdrive
ATI 4850 hd 512mb
blue tooth keyboard and mouse (new magic mouse)

you know and all that other crap that makes mac's better than PC's


oh yeah the 27" also comes with 179% more smug than previous models ;)
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
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SkaredShtles said:
So how much do you have to pay for this superior technology? Just out of curiosity, of course... :p
Click to expand...
Store.apple.com

-100 for .edu

iMacs are actually reasonable given that nice screen. Mac Pro boxes are obscenely overpriced.

I may look into building a hackintosh instead since I have a nice 24" already...
 
crohnsy

crohnsy

Monkey
Oct 2, 2009
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iMacs are a great value compared to anything you can go to the store and buy, the built in monitor is icing on the cake.

mac pro towers are outdated, An update for these should be coming in the new year with wwdc or keynote or macworld or whatever they are calling it these days.

same thing expect an update to their standalone displays.

Apple does things on a schedule so it makes things like the mcrumors buying guide nice because they keep track of whats going on and whether or not to wait on a certain item.

Oh yeah heres whats underneath the iMac:
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Toshi said:
iMacs are actually reasonable given that nice screen. Mac Pro boxes are obscenely overpriced.
Click to expand...
Any Apple computer is ridiculously priced by the time it gets close to a refresh. If you buy right after a refresh, you usually get a decently priced machine.
 
AngryMetalsmith

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
22,041
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I have no idea where I am
I recently upgraded from a 1.5 GHz G4 Mini with 1G ram running Tiger to a 2.53 Ghz 4 G ram Mini with Snow Leopard. Huge difference.

I wanted an imac but was short a few hundred and really needed to replace my old mini as it was crashing left and right.

It can run Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Photoshop, Bridge, itunes and have a couple browsers open at the same time without slowing down. Even though It's not the faster Imac I wanted I am quite pleased with it.
 
Sghost

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
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On the options screen I would go with the i5 and the 4850. It also depends on which i7 and how much more it is.

I would actually see if you can spec a better card as I don't think it can push the 2560X1440 display with nice game graphics settings turned up. With a quick glance at the game, they bothered to put GTX 280/260 in the NVIDA heavy list of recommended GPU's, and either of those will crush the 4850.

Even with the higher end cards, they are still the limiting factor when paired with the i5. For the most part people can't hit the benefits of the newer i7's atm, they are just speced because people like to see upgrades.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
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Toshi said:
I may look into building a hackintosh instead since I have a nice 24" already...
Click to expand...
so i've done just that, looked into building a hackintosh… and i think i might go this route. :eek: it's mildly scary since i have no definite assurance that what i pick out will work, but by sticking more or less to hardware combinations that others have tried, most notably tonymacx86, i have a better chance of having something that'll run Snow Leopard in 64 bit mode, without frequent crashes, and with Quartz Extreme/Core Image enabled…

toshiclark.xanga.com said:
background: i've always been a Mac guy, even though i was originally a Commodore 64 type and i had a brief flirtation with Yellow Dog Linux on my Lombard Powerbook G3 prior to Mac OS X coming out. i've never built a computer, per se, but i did overclock my ancient Power Macintosh 6100/60 to 75 MHz and have installed PCI cards, hard drives, and junk like that. i'm not petrified of opening the case--rather, it's just that most of my recent computers have essentially been hermetically sealed, most prominently my current Mac mini.

rationale: my Mac mini is getting old. it's from the initial batch of computers that Apple put out after making the switch from IBM and their G5 series of chips to Intel. it has a Intel Core Duo (not Core 2 Duo) processor at 1.66 GHz. it has on-board graphics, which is to say that it has no 3-D acceleration. it won't run several programs that i'd like to run: RC airplane flight simulators and games in general; Microsoft Vista (under VMWare, Parallels, or as a complete dual boot setup); and Apple's own Aperture. also note that i already have a nice TFT panel (ie, no ghosting and wide field of view) 24" monitor that i bought last year after my previous, old 24" screen died.

proposition: i propose to build a hackintosh instead of buying an admittedly beautiful new iMac, which not only has the snazzy new Intel Core i5 and i7 chips inside but also has a big monitor built in that i don't need, not to mention a decidedly non-negligible pricetag. (what's a hackintosh? a pc-hardware computer that's coaxed to run Mac OS X semi-illicitly.) after much browsing and seeing who has tried what i've come up with the following tentative hardware list, with things to be purchased once the mess with the insurance company and the stolen scooter is resolved.

if you want to see the whole spreadsheet, prices and newegg.com links and all, on Google Docs it is published here. otherwise below is the key info, with the kicker that this approach probably would be about $900 cheaper than an iMac setup (after eBaying my current hardware) with equivalent if not better specs on paper. whether i can actually get the whole thing running stably without pulling my hair out is an entirely separate matter…

Click to expand...
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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SkaredShtles said:
If it *is* true I might get a Mac as my next desktop...

Paging sydasti to the white courtesy phone...
Click to expand...
You rang.

Just built this home theater system - everything including the speakers, Win7 x64 license, Office 07 license, HDTV, THX speakers - just over $1400 total. Its the first TV I ever bought BTW (new apartment I live in has free cable TV and free 6Mbps up/down internet). I love companies that don't use illegal price control schemes like Apple does:thumb:

Its a bunch of components I got real cheap from Black Friday/Cybermonday sales, rebates, and Bing cashback promos. I was going to buy another Dell refurb as my home theater PC but this was just as cheap and has top quality parts way better than Dell or Apple especially at the price (all assembly required though, heh).

Runs whisper quiet and the whole setup uses only about 180 watts with normal volume level set according to the kill-a-watt - that's about the same as the most energy efficient Plasma HDTV in the same size by itself alone.

Came out awesome and blows away even refurbished systems at the price...

Gigabyte P55A-UD4P w/USB 3.0 and 6Gbps SATA III
Retail Intel Core i5 CPU 750 (Arctic Silver Céramique paste if you must know Toshi ;) )
4GB (2Gx2) GSKILL F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM
Seagate 1.5 TB HDD 7200RPM 32MB Cache SATA2
LITE-ON IHOS104-08 BLU-RAY Drive
SAMSUNG SH-S223B 22X DVD Burner
HIS ATI 4670 1GB GPU
Ralink RT2860 PCI 802.11n Wifi card
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 dual tuner HDTV Media Center System
Microsoft 3000 RF Wireless desktop keyboard/mouse combo
Samsung LN40B550 HDTV
Antec Sonata III 500watt 80 Plus Case package
Logitech Z-2300 THX-Certified 200-Watt 2.1 Speaker System

 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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Oh and this is much better flash drive in capacity and performance if you are going to buy one with your system - http://www.directron.com/pef32gusb.html?gsear=1

Amazon sells it for more but it comes with a rebate or you can get a $75 with free street fighter (weird bundle) - http://www.amazon.com/Patriot-Xporter-Boost-Flash-PEF32GUSB/dp/B0011EA4V4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260493180&sr=1-1

I got the SF edition with a $25 rebate so it was only $50 for me but they aren't running the rebate on that one right now...
 
binary visions

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
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Does the concept of the integrated screen not bother anyone else?

You end up having what is a pretty nice, expensive monitor... that cannot be separated from the computer. In the case of the 27" iMac, you can use DisplayPort... but only if your hardware supports DisplayPort (adapters don't work) and only if you don't mind the fact that the power, size and weight requirements are higher.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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VT
binary visions said:
Does the concept of the integrated screen not bother anyone else?

You end up having what is a pretty nice, expensive monitor... that cannot be separated from the computer. In the case of the 27" iMac, you can use DisplayPort... but only if your hardware supports DisplayPort (adapters don't work) and only if you don't mind the fact that the power, size and weight requirements are higher.
Click to expand...
Plus iMacs have a lot of mobile platform components - that's how they can deal with the heat in such a small space so its more like laptop desktop hybrid with slower performance but at the price of decent workstation. Very annoying/wasteful to have to junk your monitor or take a loss selling it when you want to upgrade your computer. Display technology takes much longer to become obsolete to the point of being useless...
 
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Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
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josh, no comments on the hypothetical build? here's a slightly updated version (no thumb drive since should be possible to install straight from the dvd, and knocked the power supply back one notch):



just under $1100.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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Aim for mid range build as there are diminishing returns and the difference isn't usually worthwhile after that point. There are plenty of system guides out there like arstechnica, techreport, etc but the most important resource for you when speccing your system is the hackintosh community and its resources so your OSX experience will be satisfactory. I haven't played with that stuff since 10.4 so I not very familiar.

Case - Antec has some nicer ones but maybe your goal is to save money?
PSU-Newegg has a good deal on nice modular OCZ PSUs if you are getting a case w/o one - I just replaced the PSU in my Dell 435/9000 tower with this one (it was on cybermoday special for even cheaper) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341017
I had to replace my PSU because Dell specs PSU needs a pure sine wave battery backup (like some high-end servers/medical equipment/etc) - I have a cheap consumer stepped sine wave UPS already and even if I ever get a new one they are MUCH cheaper than pure so it made sense just to swap the PSU rather than battery backup for now. The best PSU in my opinion are made by Seasonic (they do other brands too like Corsair).

Silent PC Review is a good resource for case and PSU reviews.

I'd probably just get a i5-750 to save money - here is a review - http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/17545

Don't the hackintosh builds support newer/better GPU than that 9800? I'd probably go for 4670 or 4850 depending on your needs - you can get those cheap now or if Apple announces 5000 or next gen nvidia GPU support. I am assuming they'll have the 5000 series in their next refresh.

RAM - Check Gigabyte's website to make sure its tested for your motherboard. I'd stick with the cheapest 1333 DDR3 from a reputable name as the gains aren't worth the extra cost of higher binned stuff which often needs more juice too.

HDD - I like the new Samsung F3 7200 RPM drives with 500 GB platters - I have one in this Dell I'm using right now.

Burner - Don't keep up on optical drive reviews but there is a big community of resources - I have no idea how it fares
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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VT
Almost forgot - don't forget to check out the bing cashback program for your purchase (any purchase, not just computers) - search by item or search by store. You'll get a percentage of your purchase back in 60 days or some do quick cashback if you use bing and pay by paypal. Bing even does it often with eBay purchases. At times I think they've done as high as 30 or 35% back on eBay purchase and some other stores run big promos at Black Friday/Cybermonday/Xmas/etc.

Its a great way to beat the illegal pricing schemes some companies like Apple, Dyson, etc have on their products that prevent discounting - I've heard of people getting really good deals on iPods that way.
 
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dante

dante

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Feb 13, 2004
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
dante said:
Interesting review on that site:

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/17669/2

They compare the i7-920 and i5-750 for desktops against the i7-920XM mobile chip. In almost all cases, the $200 i5 beats the $1,000 i7-920XM, often by a large margin. Still a HUGE difference in desktop and laptop performances...
Click to expand...
The lower TDP of the mobile parts is what makes all-in-one systems like the iMac possible but its a compromise...an expensive one both in cost and performance. I don't see why Apple won't make low and mid range desktop and tower computers like they use to. All-in-one computers, like any all-in-one product, might be able to do most things but they excel at nothing and the bang for buck sucks.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
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VT
I put my build in to a spreadsheet - net cost of my build is just under a grand (click to enlarge):

 
Sghost

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
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Make sure to check out Newegg'ss combo deals on things, $20/30 savings on things just for pairing them up. They won't show unless you click in the combo deals list that is associated with that product, even if they were both in your cart anyways.

example with that Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCombos.aspx?Item=N82E16813128405&SubCategory=280&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

Buy a 5770 instead of that 4870. Same speed atm, but the 5770 will get faster as drivers mature and its "more future proof" with a few other features. Also better if you want to crossfire 2 gpus together down the line, if your thinking that, gonna have to go for a better motherboard and a 700w or 750w PSU.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
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5xxx series isn't supported under OS X yet. 4870 is known to work. i also don't plan on using crossfire.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
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stevew said:
first 2012 and now this........the end is truly near.
Click to expand...
i actually looked into building a PC way back when, as in around 1999 (a teleradiology setup for my dad--he needed more graphics card than was available on Macs of that era). i stepped back from the precipice then after realizing what an ugly world is out there. :D

however, now that Apple is on P55-esque motherboards using i5/i7 chips it seems like it makes a lot of sense to basically build what they are building, only without the crazy-small form factor.

i don't want a 2.5" drive in a new mini. i don't want an included display. and i don't want to pay $2500+ for a Mac Pro. thus my choice is essentially made for me unless steve jobs pulls something out of his magician's hat at Macworld in february (if i haven't pulled the trigger by then).
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
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I didn't end up building that hackintosh. Now Civ 5 just came out, tho, and my Mac mini is FAR from meeting even its minimum requirements:



The new Mac mini also falls short, as it only has a NVidia GeForce 320M with 256 MB shared memory. Ugh. I probably shouldn't be playing any kind of video game, instead reading textbooks all the time or some such, but I loved playing earlier Civ revisions, and even got into the iPhone version for a bit last month.

:(

After doing all the Hackintosh reading I just don't feel comfortable building my own, knowing that it might not work after the next inadvertent update. Thus there might be an iMac in my future after all, perhaps after February's keynote. Now that my wife is a grad student we at least would get $100 off. (Where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, right here, a year ago :D )
 
B

bean

Turbo Monkey
Feb 16, 2004
1,335
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Have you considered a MacBook Pro? They've got graphics cards with 256 or 512MB dedicated RAM. They're more expensive than a mini, of course, but they're also just a bit cheaper than a MacPro and portable. My wife and I each have one.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
8,731
I've become spoiled by screen real estate over the years, from my 1280 x 1024 x 2 double 17" Apple Cinema Display setup back in the day to my current 24" HP LP2475w IPS flat panel.

I like viewing angle flexibility. I like calibrated colors. I like brightness.

Add all this up along with that I don't necessarily need portability and I think a desktop or at least a non-portable laptop-with-a-huge screen (I'm talking about the iMac here, of course) is the way to go.

If only some outfit made decent-spec desktop PCs with nice graphics card setups certified to work out of the box as Hackintoshes… I really don't want to deal with weeks worth of struggling just to get all the peripherals working.
 
Sghost

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
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Just shelve your pride or whatever and build a PC. An AMD system that will crush the recommended specs for Civ5 is so cheap its a shame to even limit it with the pathetic dinosaur list of parts for a hackintosh. Just put it in your closet when your mac chronies come over or something, don't depress yourself staring at the games requirements.
 
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