Idiot Cut down live tree on our trails..

Polandspring88 · Jun 1, 2006

Is it a legal trail and do you have permission from the land owner to make it?

binary visions · Jun 1, 2006

I know that I would have been pissed, too, but unfortunately, I'm almost certain the guy rode away thinking, "what a couple of f**kers" instead of, "damn, maybe that wasn't such a great idea."

It's a lot easier to ignore your own actions when you can focus on being angry at the person calling you out.

DRB · Jun 1, 2006

When somebody starts hollaring at me for some bit of trail maintenance I've done, they get tuned out immediately. I'd tune them out quicker if I could. Though I do think about how much damage whatever implement I'm holding would do to their stupid faces.

However, if they ask me nicely why I did what I did, I've got all the time in the world for them both to talk and listen to what they have to say.

Echo · Jun 1, 2006

Is the trail legal?

If you build illegal trails, basically it's just a matter of time before they get screwed up one way or another.

Echo · Jun 1, 2006

manhattanprjkt83 said:
The trail is legal, stick to the issue...

I dont understand why when someone has an issue on this board that everyone tries to cut people out at the knees...

Dude chill, it was just a question. And the trail being legal or not has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not you have a right to complain.

Since it's legal, yes that's super weak that someone is screwing with it. Especially leaving a stump like that, since the reason I haven't been able to freeride for the past 2 months is that a stump wasn't properly removed from a trail.

jonKranked · Jun 1, 2006

hey manhatten what park is this? i grew up right outside of pgh and would ride different parks from time to time.

brungeman · Jun 1, 2006

Sorry I posted a poll with some of the same content, but a bunch more background on the history etc!

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156244

jonKranked · Jun 1, 2006

never got a chance to ride North park, but I've heard good things about it, well except this.

geargrrl · Jun 1, 2006

Echo said:
Dude chill, it was just a question. And the trail being legal or not has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not you have a right to complain.

Since it's legal, yes that's super weak that someone is screwing with it. Especially leaving a stump like that, since the reason I haven't been able to freeride for the past 2 months is that a stump wasn't properly removed from a trail.

Renegade (solo) trail "maintenance" is a universal issue.

If you know who it is, there's a chance he could be educated on how his solo efforts are undermining legal trail work and biker/land manager relationships. That or get him charged with illegal tree cutting. Or, teach him how to ride through tree slots.

We've got a guy putting up anonymous flyers addressed to "fellow riders" asking people not to sanitize, signed "fellow riders". Problem is area is an unreconized, illegal trail system where mountain bikes use is being monitored for complaints, as it's heavily used by dog walkers and runners who don't like bikers very well.
The other problem is that there's a group of us working really hard to establish a mountain bike advocacy group and anonymous flyers just undermine our legitimate efforts.

good news - put in 250' of legal singletrack last night, whee!

gg

brungeman · Jun 1, 2006

manhattanprjkt83 said:
yeah i was hoping you would carry the torch on this, im too busy at work right now to be posting...

hows the 92 degree sweatbox?

I am friggin melting but I don't have kids the next 2 periods so Maybe I can find a cool place in this school!!!

geargrrl said:
Renegade (solo) trail "maintenance" is a universal issue.

If you know who it is, there's a chance he could be educated on how his solo efforts are undermining legal trail work and biker/land manager relationships. That or get him charged with illegal tree cutting. Or, teach him how to ride through tree slots.

I have talked with him countless times, and one time while riding I gave him a hard time about his trail work etc. and he tried to say that I was beeing an A$$HOLE like the guy from the club that lectured to him about the kinda sh!t he is doing.

I am a teacher by proffession, I love teaching, you can ask Manhattan I have coached and taught many of the newer riders that we ride with. I am not a snob nor do I try to be above anyone. I tried to help this guy see the light. But I think he is a write off now!

PS congrats on the trail. cutting trail is hard work!

Hawkeye · Jun 1, 2006

I would send him a bill for a replacement tree. Sounds funny but at a offroad park by me (for Jeeps/atv's) if you are caught removing trees they charge you for them. They even have a chart with the tree dimensions on it and the prices of said trees.

Some of them cost in upwards of $10,000.

dhbuilder · Jun 1, 2006

even though this has two threads going at once, it's such a huge issue that even a third wouldn't be too much.

a fool like him is just as bad as a thief. he can always come back and continue when nobody is around.
i'm assuming this guy is new to mt. biking and is clueless about any and all land access issues.
the legal land manager needs to modify their "hands off" policy on this one.
because with his f...you attitude, there's only two things that will get his attention. legal ramifications or a physical one.
are they going to have a "hands off" policy when someone beats the livin tar out of him on their land ?

reading this makes me count my blessing that i have total legal control over the land our trails are on.
i wish you guys good luck controling this guy.

brungeman · Jun 1, 2006

dhbuilder said:
even though this has two threads going at once, it's such a huge issue that even a third wouldn't be too much.

a fool like him is just as bad as a thief. he can always come back and continue when nobody is around.
i'm assuming this guy is new to mt. biking and is clueless about any and all land access issues.
the legal land manager needs to modify their "hands off" policy on this one.
because with his f...you attitude, there's only two things that will get his attention. legal ramifications or a physical one.
are they going to have a "hands off" policy when someone beats the livin tar out of him on their land ?

reading this makes me count my blessing that i have total legal control over the land our trails are on.
i wish you guys good luck controling this guy.

thanks for the support, it is hard to imagine that we have worked SOOOOO hard to get in the good graces of the local parks and local govt. it has been a tough battle, and I fear that his actions just may ruin it for the rest of us.

Manhattan and I have been building trail in this same park, (albeit on the other side of the park) we have put in 2.5-3 miles of sweet singletrack, and have only taken out 3 or 4 sapplings, and not one of them was bigger than could be handled by a set of small loppers! We are building one of the safest sweetest stretches of singletrack in the park. with tons of flow covering all kinds of different terain. If you know how to build, and how to ride, there aren't many trails in this park that would even need "tree cutting trail maint."

fluff · Jun 1, 2006

Any trail maintenance that involves cutting trees needs to be discussed IMO. Perhaps you could make that a club rule?

brungeman · Jun 1, 2006

fluff said:
Any trail maintenance that involves cutting trees needs to be discussed IMO. Perhaps you could make that a club rule?

damn good Idea, cause like Westy described, a conversation can usually bring up differing opinions, and that is always a good thing to discuss such drastic measures.

TreeSaw · Jun 1, 2006

brungeman said:
I am friggin melting but I don't have kids the next 2 periods so Maybe I can find a cool place in this school!!!

Good luck with that. I have my lights off and a fan going and it's still crappy (muggy & hot).

dhbuilder · Jun 1, 2006

brungeman said:
thanks for the support, it is hard to imagine that we have worked SOOOOO hard to get in the good graces of the local parks and local govt. it has been a tough battle, and I fear that his actions just may ruin it for the rest of us.

Manhattan and I have been building trail in this same park, (albeit on the other side of the park) we have put in 2.5-3 miles of sweet singletrack, and have only taken out 3 or 4 sapplings, and not one of them was bigger than could be handled by a set of small loppers! We are building one of the safest sweetest stretches of singletrack in the park. with tons of flow covering all kinds of different terain. If you know how to build, and how to ride, there aren't many trails in this park that would even need "tree cutting trail maint."

i try as hard as i can not to cut out any more than i absolutely have to. but sometimes on downhill trails the matter of safety comes into play.
i recently had to remove a seriously large poplar tree. it was an issue of safety and there were plenty around it. so it wasn't like i was removing something unique. but i still stood there for ten minutes or so before i finally took it out. and that was after a long hike to get there and pondering its removal for over a year.
my theory is, it's been there longer than mt. bikes have existed. and bike trails are no reason to end its life. but i also don't want to have to carry out any of my friends either.
i'll be taking my saw up there in the future and "field mill" it. and use the timber for trail projects.

sounds like you guys have been bitten by the trailbuilding bug also.
building stuff for others to ride kicks @$$.

dhbuilder · Jun 1, 2006

manhattanprjkt83 said:
It really does, and we are putting some serious effort into showing people what a quality trail should be like...

last year a guy from t.w.r.a.(tennessee wildlife resource agency) was shown some of my trails by a local map maker.

he was blown away by what he saw. and laid about 80-100,000 acres at my feet to develop x-c trails in a county north of here.
i explained that my plate was full and would put the word out about their desire for x-c trails. unfortunately nobody in the cycling community around here could be bothered. everyone i talked to about it would come up with numerous excuses as to why they couldn't do it.

what a shame.

JRB · Jun 1, 2006

What if the tree had been dead???

I was scared you had turned into a hippy for a minute.

jonKranked · Jun 1, 2006

dhbuilder said:
last year a guy from t.w.r.a.(tennessee wildlife resource agency) was shown some of my trails by a local map maker.

he was blown away by what he saw. and laid about 80-100,000 acres at my feet to develop x-c trails in a county north of here.
i explained that my plate was full and would put the word out about their desire for x-c trails. unfortunately nobody in the cycling community around here could be bothered. everyone i talked to about it would come up with numerous excuses as to why they couldn't do it.

what a shame.

good to see that there are smart trail builders like you out there, as well as smart folks at the twra who have enough sense to recognize well built trails and encourage more of them. shame noone has the time to do it.

and yes, i built a freeride stunt before where i had to take a tree out for safety. it was a shame, but i then turned around and used the downed tree to help built the stunt. and no, it wasn't anything glaring north shore style. it was a pile of dead logs against a downed tree, covered with dirt and packed. this was all on the side of a hill mind you. the tree taken was in the landing of what turned into a very very nice 12 foot step down with a dirt take off. its in a spot in which you could only tell it was there from the run in, and even then you'd have to be looking for it. :thumb:

dhbuilder · Jun 1, 2006

if you could see how densely forested our trail area is. you'd see that you can't build a thing without having to cut some trees down.
i try to keep it to trees that are less than eight to ten inches around.
but that's not always possible.

and as deep and dark as it is in here, there honestly hasn't been a tree cut down that was missed.
and i always have a twinge of guilt whenever they start to fall.

i had one of the locals call me a treehugger once. i guess he thought we were related to the lycra crowd.
it blew his mind when i reached into the trunk and pulled out a twenty inch husky and said,"say what."

SilentJ · Jun 1, 2006

loco said:
What if the tree had been dead???

I've always wondered about that too...dead standing trees - fair game?

What about trees that you can push over? Probably doesn't happen too much in your areas from the sounds of it, but up here I can push some 8-10" diameter trees down fairly easily because its so rocky/sandy and their root system sucks so badly.

geargrrl · Jun 1, 2006

fluff said:
Any trail maintenance that involves cutting trees needs to be discussed IMO. Perhaps you could make that a club rule?

Is there a "trail boss" or some sort of crew leader that keeps track of who is doing what where? I would think you'd want someone that acts as a clearing house person for what's happening out there. Some clubs are set up that, where the crew leader clears all projects through the land manager.

gg

jonKranked · Jun 1, 2006

i would consider dead trees to be fair game. better to fall in a controlled manner than run the risk of it filling and injuring someone. granted its an extremely small possibility, but a possibility nonetheless. also, by taking it down you're more likely to be able to use it for something constructive.

Dartman · Jun 1, 2006

Dead standing trees are more often than not homes for various critters. We're not allowed to cut 'em here.

Mike

MisterClean · Jun 1, 2006

Carve a club out of one of the branches from the tree this doof felled and beat him with it.

Idiot Cut down live tree on our trails..

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