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'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits'

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Those 'progressive' Old Europeans...
:oink:


'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits'
Telegraph UK | 30 Jan | Clare Chapman

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.

"There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

Miss Garweg said that women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model", and should report back on the meeting. Employers in the sex industry can also advertise in job centres, a move that came into force this month. A job centre that refuses to accept the advertisement can be sued.

Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.

"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.

Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.

Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court. Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.

Miss Garweg believes that pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.

"They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution,'' she said.

"Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."
 

mattv2099

Monkey
Aug 16, 2004
192
0
Bellingham, WA
totally sick.


What about dudes? If a dude is looking for a job and he is offered one in the gay porn industry would he loose all his benefits when he refuses the job???


imagine it...

"mr ullrich, we got your name from a job center. We are prepared to offer you a wonderful opportunity. Have you ever heard of lexington steele..."
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
"Too difficult to distinguish brothels from bars?" It's not like they have to have licenses or anything...good lord.

Man, and we thought those Germans were efficient or something...

MD
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
MikeD said:
"Too difficult to distinguish brothels from bars?" It's not like they have to have licenses or anything...good lord.

Man, and we thought those Germans were efficient or something...

MD
I've obviously been hanging out in the wrong watering holes my whole life.
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
If you need to go to a brothel to get laid you might as well get a big L tattoed (sp?) on your forehead.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
mack said:
If you need to go to a brothel to get laid you might as well get a big L tattoed (sp?) on your forehead.
What if you just WANT to go to a brothel to get laid? Do you get a lower-case L tattooed on your forehead?

Another way to look at it is: when you want your car fixed, do you ask your girlfriend to do it for free, or do you hire a pro?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
BurlyShirley said:
If you force a prostitute to have sex with you, is that considered theft or rape?
I dunno, but if she doesn't notice, I bet it's shoplifting...
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,111
1,166
NC
MikeD said:
I dunno, but if she doesn't notice, I bet it's shoplifting...
If it was a really expensive prostitute, and you get caught, is it grand larceny?

If so, does that mean it's morally more wrong to have sex with an expensive prostitute than a cheap one?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
Well, just because some Kraut bureaucrats are insane doesn't mean it should remain illegal. They're not having these problems in Nevada...and plenty of people are doing it elsewhere, regardless of its legality, and in a manner that's not conducive to public health, which affects us all. Get it out of the gutter and off the streets, into a safe, legal, and reasonably-regulated environment...let the police focus on crimes that actually have victims.

But don't force unemployed women into the sex trade...good lord.

MD
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

Claim: Women in Germany face the loss of unemployment benefits if they decline to accept work in brothels.

Status: False.

Example: [The Telegraph, 2005]
-------------------------------
A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services" at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Prostitution was legalized in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners — who must pay tax and employee health insurance — were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.....................

[Rest of article here.]
------------------------------------------------
Origins: A news story about a 25-year-old German woman who faced cuts to her unemployment benefits for turning down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel was carried by a variety of English-language news sources in January 2005. It has struck a chord in many readers as an example of liberal morality and bureaucracy run amok: if prostitution is legalized (as it was in Germany back in 2002), this story suggests, then society has conferred its approval upon that trade, and prostitution can therefore be proffered to (and even foisted upon) women as a valid choice of employment.

We were initially skeptical about the literal truth of the version reported in the English press, however, because the issue seemed to have received scant attention in the German press. In fact, the origin of this story was evidently a 18 December 2004 article published in the Berlin newspaper Tageszeitung (also known as TAZ) which did not report that women in Germany must accept employment in brothels or face cuts in their unemployment benefits. (Although it claimed there had been "isolated cases" of such, it did not provide any source or documentation to back up that statement.)

The Tageszeitung merely presented the concept of brothel employment as a technical possibility under current law; it did not provide any actual cases of women losing their benefits over this issue. The article also quoted representatives from employment agencies as saying that while it might be possible for employment agencies to offer jobs as prostitutes to "long-term unemployed" women, they (the agencies) could not require anyone to work in a brothel. (The agencies noted that brothels used "other recruitment channels" anyway.)

As an example of how a hypothetical has been manipulated into a truth, consider the following paragraph from the Telegraph article cited above:
Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.

Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court.
Then note how this same issue was covered by the German news source Deutsche Welle:
A brothel owner in the historic German town of Gvrlitz on the Polish border is preparing to open his establishment next month but faces a one last serious problem — he has no staff. Ulrich Kueperkoch's adverts seeking "hostesses for erotic services" for his Golden 3 Privatclub have been rejected by Germany's Federal Labor Office even though prostitution is legal in the country. The dispute with the labor office stems from its refusal to allow advertising for prostitutes in the network of job-placement agencies that it runs. A spokesperson said that the labor office has "decided not to be active in that market sector" due to its belief that such work could infringe on an individual's rights if he or she is forced to take the job. Kueperkoch insists he would only employ those who were interested and not those who felt they had no other choice.
This was another case where, like a game of "telephone," a story was sensationalized for political purposes and passed from one news source to the next, and somewhere in the rewriting and translating process what was originally discussed as a mere hypothetical possibility has now been reported as a factual occurrence.

Last updated: 6 February 2005