[clancy98]

I have to side with JSB on this. What I do on my own time, within limits, is none of the company's business even if it may affect my health.

Unless that company happens to be paying for your healthcare. Go try an get healthcare on your own, and see if you can do it without telling them whether you smoke or not.

Truth is, aside from "protected" rights, the company can make any stipulations they want. (unless they are unionized) If you are agreeing to work for them, then you are agreeing to the policy. Maybe the policy sucks, and they are definitely hurting their field of potential employees, but it makes so much damn sense financially I dont know how this is the first time we've heard of it. When I was leaving my old employer 3 YEARS ago they were talking about how to help the employees quit because it was way worth it in the long run.

 

[Snacks]

What I do on my own time, within limits, is none of the company's business even if it may affect my health

How many smokers don't smoke when they are at work? At my company we are allow two ten minute brakes and a lunch. Do you know how many times the 'smoker' crowd goes out for a 'smoke brake'? Half of them can even figure out where to toss there butts when they are done. Front of the building is littered with butts.

Yes, there is a huge trash can by the 'smoking' area.

 

[-BB-]

Post some statistics please. I heard that smoking is the #1 health problem in this country. Do you know something I don't?

What is next?
Letting all the Fat people go? That is a health risk that increases premiums isn't it?

I'm supprised no one has sued them yet.

 

[Slugman]

I can't see how they would be violating any of your rights if they fired you for these..............

-S.S.-

I know... but why are people Ok with it.

Just because it's against smokers everyone though it was great... but what if it was somethign we all did and loved? Why is it OK with everyone that their employer has as much controll over them as your parents did when you were a child?

There was a report that peopel who have long commutes have higher blood pressure - so can an employer now mandate that I live within walking distance?

I hope no actually thinks they are "free" in this society when your employer can mandate what you do in your free time...

 

[golgiaparatus]

Thats friggin sweet. Cigarettes should be illegal... If pot is illegal, ban the death sticks too. Or at least make it illegal to sell them.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Why not? All businesses are built on the blood, sweat, and tears of individuals. Just because a business becomes successful it then becomes a welfare state responsible to create a livelihood for its employees? The whole concept of sueing an employer is absurd.

I have taken enormous chances getting a business started. If it fails I will be bankrupt. I have gone years in poverty through the sacrifices I have made. If my business ever grows to the point that I am able to hire some peeps, you better believe its going to be on my terms! I'm not going to have some whiny punk tell me that I owe him anything!

What is next?
Letting all the Fat people go? That is a health risk that increases premiums isn't it?

I'm supprised no one has sued them yet.

 

[-BB-]

I think a lot of the people here allow their distaste for smoking to cloud their judgment and miss the point that JSB is trying to make.

The owner of the company should not have the right to fire some for doing a legal activity on their own time. Drug test are not testing for Advil – they are testing to see if you participate in an ILLEGAL activity. So to reference drug test is an apple to orange comparison.

Don’t get me wrong – I would like to ship all the smokers to another country (like France where they still walk through the airport smoking…), or I’d really like to see the US government make smoking illegal. However until the Government does something (which the will never do as the FDA has refused to make any rulings on smoking) I think this company is wrong and will probably see some lawsuits in the near future.

Facist

You are correct that there is a big difference between smoking Cigs and doing drugs... and that they will probably get sued.

I don't see anything wrong with smoking (as an ex smoker myself).
I think that the tobacco companies need to cough ( ) up some $$ to cover these rising health costs or to put a little more tax on the product itself since this will cause the individual to take responsibility for their actions.... And as far as how smoking impacts you, what else can you ask for? The only place yo have to be subjected to their presence is outside bars or work. Big deal.

 

[Acadian]

I'm not going to have some whiny punk tell me that I owe him anything!

Please tell him/her that during the interview.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I have taken enormous chances getting a business started. If it fails I will be bankrupt. I have gone years in poverty through the sacrifices I have made. If my business ever grows to the point that I am able to hire some peeps, you better believe its going to be on my terms! I'm not going to have some whiny punk tell me that I owe him anything!

Nothing like owning your own business to make you conservative.

 

[Ridemonkey]

Please tell him/her that during the interview.

A quality person/employee will be rewarded generously for their hard work. If they don't work out for ANY reason, they will be fired. The thought I could be sued for that is pure insanity.

 

[Echo]

I'm not sure on what grounds... but I have a hard time accepting that my employer can fire me for doing a legal activity on my own free time.

Let's try a little stretch here. Someone goes to Amsterdam on vacation, where smoking dope is legal. They get stoned. When they get back, they get tested by their company, which has a no drug use policy.

This person therefore did something that was legal, on their own time. Do you think the company will let this person keep his/her job?

 

[SkaredShtles]

I know... but why are people Ok with it.

Just because it's against smokers everyone though it was great... but what if it was somethign we all did and loved? Why is it OK with everyone that their employer has as much controll over them as your parents did when you were a child?

Because it's the employer's company? I mean, it's their business, for crying out loud........ they ought to be able to do what they want within the confines of the law.

I hope no actually thinks they are "free" in this society when your employer can mandate what you do in your free time...

If you really want complete "freedom" in this society, you'd better be the one calling the shots. If you don't like the employer's rules, quit. You're still free to do that.........

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> If my business ever grows to the point that I am able to hire some peeps, you better believe its going to be on my terms! I'm not going to have some whiny punk tell me that I owe him anything!

Ding-ding-ding!! We have a winner! I wanna work at *your* company, mate!

-S.S.-

 

[Ridemonkey]

Ding-ding-ding!! We have a winner! I wanna work at *your* company, mate!

-S.S.-

Sigh, you obviously don't understand what I am talking about

 

[SkaredShtles]

Sigh, you obviously don't understand what I am talking about

I meant when you get large enough to hire some people...........

Unless you have something against haggis.

-S.S.-

 

[-BB-]

A quality person/employee will be rewarded generously for their hard work. If they don't work out for ANY reason, they will be fired. The thought I could be sued for that is pure insanity.

So why not hire only Vegetarians?

No Fat people need apply.

 

[Acadian]

Sigh, you obviously don't understand what I am talking about

yea...

Aaron is saying that if someone works for him, he should be able to fire him/her at ANY TIME if he/she doesn't work out. And that person shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sue him for that.

That rules doesn't apply in big corporations - where it's HARD to layoff someone. A process that can take months and sometimes years unless there are major company wide layoffs.

 

[SkaredShtles]

So why not hire only Vegetarians?

No Fat people need apply.

Why not? If you are a business owner and want to only hire vegetarians, more power to you.

Although I suspect your employee base might be so small as to put you at a competitive disadvantage.

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

yea...

Aaron is saying that if someone works for him, he should be able to fire him/her at ANY TIME if he/she doesn't work out. And that person shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sue him for that.

I think I understood him. I was making the point that I'd like to work for someone like that..........

-S.S.-

 

[ghostrider]

Here's how I see it. The whole cost thing is just a cover for the real reason those people are toast.

Known fact: You can't have a functioning brain and be a smoker.

This employer just doesn't want brainless people working for him. Simple.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Here's how I see it. The whole cost thing is just a cover for the real reason those people are toast.

Known fact: You can't have a functioning brain and be a smoker.

This employer just doesn't want brainless people working for him. Simple.

And last time I looked, it was perfectly acceptible for discrimination on the basis of stupidity........

-S.S.-

 

[JSB]

What is next?
Letting all the Fat people go? That is a health risk that increases premiums isn't it?

I'm supprised no one has sued them yet.

Well like I said every one has their own stat. It;s like arses...oops I mean opinions everyone has one. But the article I linked to mentioned Heat disease was the leading cause of healthcare spending between 1987, and 2000, but I think it was due more to the cost of treating it that the number of people having it. It's rediculous to say smoking is the reason.

Although one of my favorite commercials is the one where the people are standing in front of a cigarette corp. questioning their customer service because they actually kill like 27 people a minute or something crazy like that. I think they are the TRUTH commercials.

 

[-BB-]

yea...

Aaron is saying that if someone works for him, he should be able to fire him/her at ANY TIME if he/she doesn't work out. And that person shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sue him for that.

That rules doesn't apply in big corporations - where it's HARD to layoff someone. A process that can take months and sometimes years unless there are major company wide layoffs.

I think that that is true within reason.
For example, the company that tried to fire someone for eating Pork was sucessfully sued.

 

[Jou]

I dont smoke, nor do i encourage it, but that is BS.

 

[SkaredShtles]

I dont smoke, nor do i encourage it, but that is BS.

Well, geez. Since you put it that way, I don't know why in the world we're even discussing it.......

Would you like to qualify your statement?

-S.S.-

 

[JSB]

Why not? All businesses are built on the blood, sweat, and tears of individuals. Just because a business becomes successful it then becomes a welfare state responsible to create a livelihood for its employees? The whole concept of sueing an employer is absurd.

I have taken enormous chances getting a business started. If it fails I will be bankrupt. I have gone years in poverty through the sacrifices I have made. If my business ever grows to the point that I am able to hire some peeps, you better believe its going to be on my terms! I'm not going to have some whiny punk tell me that I owe him anything!

I'm sure the guy that fired the first woman who was pregnant and working, and needed to take some time off to have the baby, and recover had the same thought. Look how that changed.

 

[JSB]

Let's try a little stretch here. Someone goes to Amsterdam on vacation, where smoking dope is legal. They get stoned. When they get back, they get tested by their company, which has a no drug use policy.

This person therefore did something that was legal, on their own time. Do you think the company will let this person keep his/her job?

I knew that was going to come up sooner or later, and it's a screwed up situation. I for one wouldn't put myself in the situation, but that's me.

I'd say if you tested positive you tested positive. It doesn't say except in the case where you can prove you were in a country where it's legal. Although, I'm sure some will use that sooner or later.

On that note my uncle was fired because he showed positive for Cocaine.
He didn't understand why, and had the test again. Still positve, and he was fired. Turns out he had surgery, and was given something I don't even want to try to spell, and it shows up as cocaine on drug test. He was given his job back and apologized to. Talk about crazy.

That would give atheletes a great excuse. No no, I was in Amsterdam when I smoked that.

 

[JSB]

How many smokers don't smoke when they are at work? At my company we are allow two ten minute brakes and a lunch. Do you know how many times the 'smoker' crowd goes out for a 'smoke brake'? Half of them can even figure out where to toss there butts when they are done. Front of the building is littered with butts.

Yes, there is a huge trash can by the 'smoking' area.

When I smoked I took a break every hour for about 5 to 10 minutes to smoke one or two. That's like 80 minutes a day at work just smoking. Now I'm like how many dang smoke breaks are you going to take today. I think I'm going to take a breathing break.

 

[KaTooMer]

When I smoked I took a break every hour for about 5 to 10 minutes to smoke one or two. That's like 80 minutes a day at work just smoking.

It used to p!ss me off that a lady in a nearby cube does that, until I realized how much time I waste on RM during work hours. Actually, it still p!sses me off because I hate smoking and everything it stands for and these smoker people come back from their little breaks after blowing smoke at each other in confined spaces and smell like a walking smokestacks.

 

[Ridemonkey]

I'm sure the guy that fired the first woman who was pregnant and working, and needed to take some time off to have the baby, and recover had the same thought. Look how that changed.

That sounds like a legitimate excuse to me. You are the fricken master at bad anologies. Are there tournaments for that kind of thing?

 

[Jou]

Well, geez. Since you put it that way, I don't know why in the world we're even discussing it.......

Would you like to qualify your statement?

-S.S.-

not really its obvious, a buisness can't descriminate on race, sex, sexuality, etc. no reason they should be able to on personal habits.

 

[-BB-]

Why not? All businesses are built on the blood, sweat, and tears of individuals. Just because a business becomes successful it then becomes a welfare state responsible to create a livelihood for its employees? The whole concept of sueing an employer is absurd.

I have taken enormous chances getting a business started. If it fails I will be bankrupt. I have gone years in poverty through the sacrifices I have made. If my business ever grows to the point that I am able to hire some peeps, you better believe its going to be on my terms! I'm not going to have some whiny punk tell me that I owe him anything!

Just tell them that you are firing them for something else!!
THAT is the american way!
Look at Biggins.

 

[Westy]

A friend of mine works for a company that requires employees to pay more into their med insurance if they support certain lifestyles. If you drink, smoke are overweight etc you have to pay more. You fill out a form saying whether you smoke or not and you are randomly tested. If you say you don't smoke and test positive for it your canned, I think they even have to declare if they are around second hand smoke a lot. The insurance payments by the employees can vary by thousands of dollars a year depending on lifestyle. I would get hit because I like beer but I would have no problem taking part in such a system.

 

[Tully]

A friend of mine works for a company that requires employees to pay more into their med insurance if they support certain lifestyles.

I think that sort of system would be absolutely perfect. IMO, firing someone for smoking is definitely a questionable practice, although I think charging people of certain lifestyles is not only fair, but necessary. Who wants to pay for someone else's addiction?

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

I don't see a problem with it.It's his company and he should be able to decide what kind of personel he want's working for him,and if these people effect his bottom line by driving up health care costs,why not.If you owned a company and by having smokers in your work force it cost you,say,$50,000 a year,what would you do?Would you pay $50,000 for people to smoke?People have the right to smoke,just not at his expense

 

[pnj]

Known fact: You can't have a functioning brain and be a smoker.

This employer just doesn't want brainless people working for him. Simple.

I know a few people that make six figures a year, and do enough drugs/booze/smoking to kill most people.

I know a number of business owners that do VERY well (seven figures)that party like no ones business.

there are plenty of people that abuse the crap out of themselves and still function just fine in society.

don't believe the hype.

 

[Velocity Girl]

I don't see a problem with it.It's his company and he should be able to decide what kind of personel he want's working for him.

You're not allowed to fire someone for race, sex, religon, etc. so it's not as cut and dry as that. It just seems odd to me to be able to single out a group like that.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

You're not allowed to fire someone for race, sex, religon, etc. so it's not as cut and dry as that. It just seems odd to me to be able to single out a group like that.

But if you cost your company x amount of dollars a year due to poor performance(lack of sales,incompetency etc)you can be fired right?If you smoke you cost the compant x amount of dollars per year right?

 

[Tully]

But if you cost your company x amount of dollars a year due to poor performance(lack of sales,incompetency etc)you can be fired right?If you smoke you cost the compant x amount of dollars per year right?

More than performance, it's that they have to pay for your higher health care costs, but both are definitely factors.

 

[GravityFreakTJ]

More than performance, it's that they have to pay for your higher health care costs, but both are definitely factors.

I was just saying that if you don't perform you cost them money,or if you smoke(you drive up health costs) you cost them money