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IH Yakuza Chainline garbage

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
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May 23, 2002
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I have a line on a reasonably priced yakuza frame. Unsure of year, but it's black and labeled as "Sohon Bucho", has no ISCG tabs and a 73mm BB, which suggests that it's a 2006.

According to ska todd:
05 = 135x12mm hub w/ 15mm floater, 73mm BB, 9x2.75" shock
06 = 150x12mm hub (w/o floater) used offset dish, 73mm BB, 9x2.75" shock, changed CS dimple
07 = 150x12mm, 83mm BB, 8.75x2.75" shock

-ska todd
And miket:
Todd - sweet....

Also
I think (key term)
2005 and 06 = no tabs and a 50mm chain line.
2007 = ISCG05 tabs and 57.5mm chain line.

Michael
e.thirteen
So for this frame, I should be able to get away with a 73mm bb setup (like a shimano XT) with my 150mm rear wheel (which already has some dish). That should give me a decent chainline?

Also, for any takers, this frame comes with a Fox Van R. It's an 8.75" shock, which looks like it's contraindicated for the 2006 model year, and I should expect some metal-metal contact on the frame, though I saw none. Is this something to keep an eye out for and measure, or was the contact less of an issue in 2006?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
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You're not slaughtering the pig already, are you?!?
haha, we'll see! The cost would be the same and I've always wanted to play around with the yakuza, one of the most overlooked frames ever built. The Kaos is rad but I'm facing a shock retune or replacement which may cost far more than swapping frames and putting something together...and the spirit of the project is thrift.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
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Had an Yakuza Kumicho a few years ago, same frame I believe. I can't give much help unfortunately..although I can confirm the rear wheel has to have an enormous amount of dish(to drive side I believe). I threw a Vivid 5.1 on, (8.75x2.75 IIRC, don't recall any metal on metal). Was the bike I "learned to DH/FR" on, and can attest to its "funness". May be a "budget" dh frame but I think it was way underrated. I LOVED it. Definitely worth picking up if you can do so on the cheap, and assuming it hasn't been thrashed too terribly bad.
 

Sandwich

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Thanks dude. I really appreciate it. It doesn't sound like there are any issues with frame contact but I don't know how much DH the po did vs highland style bike parking.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
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I thought they all cracked, they ran out of warranty frames in Oz and gave a few people Sundays.

They do look pretty but if I went something old I'd love a Session 10 but I think they cracked fairly often too.
 

Sandwich

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I know the 2005s cracked a lot at the chainstay dimples, but the later ones were revised apparently. I imagine the success of the Sunday and the ruination of iron horse helped kill the yakuza inasmuch.
 

jonKranked

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They do look pretty but if I went something old I'd love a Session 10 but I think they cracked fairly often too.
eh? hadn't heard of any cracking, which would be a bit surprising considering how overbuilt those frames were. rode awesome if you could get past the weight.
 

jackalope

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Jan 9, 2004
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Can't help with the Yakuza, but I had an '05'ish V10 with a 73 BB, and while it certainly had a less than ideal Q-factor, it worked fine. The trick was finding a crankset with the right length spindle - used a Truvativ Hussefelt, but I can't recall the spindle length.
 

jonKranked

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Can't help with the Yakuza, but I had an '05'ish V10 with a 73 BB, and while it certainly had a less than ideal Q-factor, it worked fine. The trick was finding a crankset with the right length spindle - used a Truvativ Hussefelt, but I can't recall the spindle length.
3pc crank + splined chainring. bam.
 

Sandwich

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Can't help with the Yakuza, but I had an '05'ish V10 with a 73 BB, and while it certainly had a less than ideal Q-factor, it worked fine. The trick was finding a crankset with the right length spindle - used a Truvativ Hussefelt, but I can't recall the spindle length.
Supposedly the Yakuza compensated for the naturally bad chainline of a 73/150 by using a dished rear wheel, but I don't have the frame just yet. The truvativ howitzers came in 50 and 56mm chainline, I believe. When you say Q factor, how do you mean? The narrower width of the 73mm bb actually appeals to me...
 

jonKranked

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more detail:

http://sheldonbrown.com/cranks.html

The tread, or "Q factor" of a crank set is the horizontal width of the cranks, measured from where the pedals screw in. The wider the tread, the farther apart your feet will be. It is generally considered a good idea to keep the tread fairly narrow.
 

Sandwich

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no, i understand that, my confusion lies in the definition between overall width (ie 73, 83, 100) and an individual cranks' offset between pedal boss and BB. I can't imagine anything with a 73mm BB being less awkward or ideal than anything with an 83mm BB....
 

jonKranked

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no, i understand that, my confusion lies in the definition between overall width (ie 73, 83, 100) and an individual cranks' offset between pedal boss and BB. I can't imagine anything with a 73mm BB being less awkward or ideal than anything with an 83mm BB....
the problem with a 73/150 combo is chainline. certain cranks were available that spaced the spider out a bit more from the bb interface worked better with this, but also resulted in a slightly larger q-factor.
 

jonKranked

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the reason 3pc cranks are a good idea for 73/150 bikes is because you can space the cranks/chainring(spider) out until you achieve a good chainline. of course this increases your q-factor, but the tradeoff is the better chainline. you don't have that kind of adjustability with typical mtb cranks.
 

Sandwich

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the problem with a 73/150 combo is chainline. certain cranks were available that spaced the spider out a bit more from the bb interface worked better with this, but also resulted in a slightly larger q-factor.
Yes, I get that, I was asking why jackalope thought it wasn't "ideal".

the reason 3pc cranks are a good idea for 73/150 bikes is because you can space the cranks/chainring(spider) out until you achieve a good chainline. of course this increases your q-factor, but the tradeoff is the better chainline. you don't have that kind of adjustability with typical mtb cranks.
Yeah, I don't want three piece BMX cranks on my DH bike. I can think of almost zero reasons to run heavy, poorly designed cranks like that, especially while there are awesome setups that achieve similar adjustability but with stiff, light aluminum.

@Jackalope, why did you delete that last post, it actually clears up my confusion.
 

jonKranked

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Yeah, I don't want three piece BMX cranks on my DH bike. I can think of almost zero reasons to run heavy, poorly designed cranks like that, especially while there are awesome setups that achieve similar adjustability but with stiff, light aluminum.
sounds like you haven't looked at any 3pc cranks in the last 5 or so years. yea, they're not as light as modern aluminum cranks, but they've come a looooooooooooooooooong way. they're no longer the overdesigned boat anchors from days of yore. and they're a LOT better designed than you think.


zero reasons? i just gave you a great reason. good luck finding a crappy old set of isis cranks to make a hob-job drivetrain.
 

Sandwich

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sounds like you haven't looked at any 3pc cranks in the last 5 or so years. yea, they're not as light as modern aluminum cranks, but they've come a looooooooooooooooooong way. they're no longer the overdesigned boat anchors from days of yore. and they're a LOT better designed than you think.


zero reasons? i just gave you a great reason. good luck finding a crappy old set of isis cranks to make a hob-job drivetrain.
I looked at plenty of them, and 75% of the market is still profile knockoffs. Better tolerances, sure, but the same setup. Some have even taken to the two piece setup like MTBs...but still the same profile spindle/interface. There are some that are proper two piece or three piece setups, but none come close to the simplicity and cleanliness of a shimano three bolt, bob's your uncle setup.

As for isis...just no.
 

jonKranked

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people still think BMX cranks are ****ty.
that's one of the dumbest things you've ever said.


typically no, bmx cranks aren't needed for DH, and are total overkill. and typically i wouldn't recommend them for DH use either. but in this circumstance (73/150), they're a better solution than trying to hunt down some old mediocre crank that still isn't gonna allow you the amount of adjustability needed to achieve a decent chainline.
 

Jim Mac

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May 21, 2004
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What about 3 piece cranks like Truvativ Holfezzers or whatever the hell they are/were called? Howitzer BB, heavy but it worked.

FYI, check the new light profile cro mo 3 piece cranks, they may rival alum in weight.

EDIT!

 
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jackalope

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What about 3 piece cranks like Truvativ Holfezzers or whatever the hell they are/were called? Howitzer BB, heavy but it worked.

This. My Hussefelt cranks were 3 piece, and they worked fine aside from occassional creaking (which didn't matter anyway on that loud ass frame). I don't even think they were outrageously heavy. Hell, they're *still* on that bike and will likely see more use this summer.
 
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Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
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This. My Hussefelt cranks were 3 piece, and they worked fine aside from occassional creaking (which didn't matter anyway on that loud ass frame). I don't even think they were outrageously heavy. Hell, they're *still* on that bike and will likely see more use this summer.
I still run a pair on my FB-10. Cranks are light, but the howitzer BB was a block of lead. BB is durable as hell, though.

EDIT: also run these on my trail bike, come to think of it.

DOUBLE EDIT: I even have another pair lying around in my garage, think 1 spider arm is slightly bent.
 
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time-bomb

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May 2, 2008
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jK is right and wrong about the 3 piece cranks. they are as easy to install from a mental stand point, meaning they are pretty straight forward and easy to figure out. however, they are more difficult to set up physically since the tolerances are so tight and there may be a bit more trial and error to get your spacing right. so removing the crank arm to add a spacer is a bit more laborious than removing a conventional crank arm. my deity (165mm) cranks + ti (83mm) spindle + bb + sprocket is lighter than current comparable saint set up fwiw.
 

William42

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Jul 31, 2007
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yeah, my dietys were reasonable weight, very very stiff, easy to setup, and cheap. seems like thats the name of the game. I'd take another set of them any day over some older mediocre crank.
 

davet

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Jun 24, 2004
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Orange had the 224 with 73/150 for years with zero issues. I ran SLX cranks, zero issues, no dished wheels.
 

jonKranked

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yeah, my dietys were reasonable weight, very very stiff, easy to setup, and cheap. seems like thats the name of the game. I'd take another set of them any day over some older mediocre crank.
deity was the exact cranks i was thinking of.

Orange had the 224 with 73/150 for years with zero issues. I ran SLX cranks, zero issues, no dished wheels.
clearly IH went under because they never called orange on how to make it work :panic:
 

time-bomb

Monkey
May 2, 2008
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right here -> .
The other thing that's nice about the Deity, or other 3 piece cranks for that matter, is that they will fit any frame. If need be just buy a new spindle size and you can go back and forth between 68/73 and 83 w/out any problems. Just make notes on your crank arm spacing so you don't have to re-figure it out every time you swap them.
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
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So I had a Kumicho R and it was one of my most favorite-est DH bikes I ever owned. Once I got some of the heavier parts off, it built up pretty light.

I don't remember what year my frame was but I think the R version wasn't available until later. It was a 73 bb with a 150 rear end and the chainline was all good because the swingarm was offset 10mm to compensate. I think I had to dish my rear wheel 10mm toward the non drive side.

Not sure if the older frames were set up this way or not.

I ended up selling that frame to a buddy of mine for like $100 to get him started riding. A year later he told me he sold it to another guy for the same price because he stopped riding. I wish he had asked me first, I would have bought it back.
 
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blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
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The other thing that's nice about the Deity, or other 3 piece cranks for that matter, is that they will fit any frame. If need be just buy a new spindle size and you can go back and forth between 68/73 and 83 w/out any problems. Just make notes on your crank arm spacing so you don't have to re-figure it out every time you swap them.
I tried to put flybikesbmx 2.5 piece cranks on my octane one void frame and it didn't work, spindle wasn't long enough. I also tried Odyssey twombolts and had the same issue.

Not sure if its just an issue with 2/2.5 PC cranks, but I know you can buy longer spindles for 48 splined 3 PC bmx cranks..

Just thought I'd chime in.

Derp: I'm an idiot. You were talking about 3 PC cranks. Nvm.
 
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