[MMike]

And note the neutrality of the question:

Why was the thread about a "certain bike shop" deleted?

I mean...how is it any different that the Beyond Bikes thread in the Scammer forum? Not that I'm accusing anyone of scamming. But if someone is sincerely posting about a negative experience (or experiences) about "a certain bike shop", then why should it be deleted? Most people dont' make this stuff up for the fun of it.

I know for a fact that even the bro-iest of the bro's admit that the owner "of the certain bike shop" is a little special.

And in the interest of "the customer is always right", why shouldn't the customer have the ability to warn the rest of the world? There are shops with good customer service, and others with less than stellar sevice. In this the "information age", all the more reason for shops to treat people right. They can bad-mouth people all they like behind their backs.

Seems to me that by deleting threads about poor customer service, it somewhat defeats the purpose of this forum.

(Again....notice I didn't use any names)

 

[Tootrikky]

I recently heard an interesting philosphical debate about the internet, the discussions that occur on forums, and how they are/are not regulated. Basically a Girls magazine started a Beauty and Health Forum and they had to shut it down because of the these Pro Anorexia girls that would share tips on how to become and maintain their anorexia. Since the site could not regulate these pro anorexics they had to shut it down or risk losing the whole shebang.

 

[MMike]

Well sure....if it's promoting something that will lead to death, that's one thing. But I don't think we're quite there yet.

 

[Tootrikky]

The point is that, in order for these forums to survive they have to be moderated, and unfortunately it is not possible for the mods to justify every moderation. Luckily if you don't like it you can just go to the next forum.

 

[MMike]

But if no-one is uttering death-threats, or saying stuff that is completely untrue, then what's to moderate? If someone is relaying accounts of actual events, then where's the harm?

Seems to me the victim is the one being punished.

 

[Tootrikky]

But if no-one is uttering death-threats, or saying stuff that is completely untrue, then what's to moderate? If someone is relaying accounts of actual events, then where's the harm?

Seems to me the victim is the one being punished.

If it's has the potential of hurting one's livelihood, and business I would say it is pretty harmful, and gets into the grey area where moderation may be beneficial for the forum.

 

[MMike]

If it's has the potential of hurting one's livelihood, and business I would say it is pretty harmful, and gets into the grey area where moderation may be beneficial for the forum.

But again, if the events are factual, then it would behoove said shop keep to treat his (or her) customers properly. If he/she treats their people right (like other competing shops) then he/she would receive nothing but glowing reviews, n'est-ce pas?

Deleting reports of poor customer service to allow the shop keep to continue to provide poor customer service really makes no sense at all.

 

[MMike]

....and to your point, if it's just one moron posting imflammatory stuff, then sure, moderate away. But if a poor opinion seems to be a popular one, then technically, you're moderating an inordinately large population.

 

[Tootrikky]

....and to your point, if it's just one moron posting imflammatory stuff, then sure, moderate away. But if a poor opinion seems to be a popular one, then technically, you're moderating an inordinately large population.

If that is the case then this inordinate population you speak of will become unhappy with said site and choose another. Thats the check and the balance, and the end of this debate.

 

[Toshi]

If that is the case then this inordinate population you speak of will become unhappy with said site and choose another. Thats the check and the balance, and the end of this debate.

i chose to stop going to that shop after my own bad experience many a moon ago. if i had had this now-deleted thread i could have saved myself money and anguish.

i agree with MMike. i think fair complaints should be aired.

 

[Tootrikky]

i chose to stop going to that shop after my own bad experience many a moon ago. if i had had this now-deleted thread i could have saved myself money and anguish.

i agree with MMike. i think fair complaints should be aired.

What about the multitudes of people who had good experiences with the shop and would not of had this now deleted.........

When I say multitudes I am assuming they would have had to had a multitude of customers since your many moons ago experience, in order to stay in business.

 

[Mtbike]

If that is the case then this inordinate population you speak of will become unhappy with said site and choose another. Thats the check and the balance, and the end of this debate.

Are you connected with said shop? Have you had any experiences with said shop? Does it benefit you for the post to be removed? Or are you just playing a virtual diplomatic role in this discussion?

 

[Mtbike]

What about the multitudes of people who had good experiences with the shop and would not of had this now deleted.........

When I say multitudes I am assuming they would have had to had a multitude of customers since your many moons ago experience, in order to stay in business.

Do a great job and someone my tell one person, do a poor job and that person will tell everyone. That is just the way people react to customer service.

 

[DirtyDog]

three out of four times threads are deleted by the thread starter. Nothing we can do about that.

 

[MMike]

What about the multitudes of people who had good experiences with the shop and would not of had this now deleted.........

When I say multitudes I am assuming they would have had to had a multitude of customers since your many moons ago experience, in order to stay in business.

They are free to chime in.

But it just seems curious that this one shop in particular seems to raise the ire of people enough to want to post about them. Like I said, people generally don't make this stuff up for the fun of it. I don't think that it's a well-orchestrated smear campaign.

 

[MMike]

three out of four times threads are deleted by the thread starter. Nothing we can do about that.

Well if that's the case, then so be it.

(But you should work on a system where a hired goon gets sent to the thread starter's house when that happens)

 

[Tootrikky]

Part of my point is that there is really no way for the mods to justify their decision, it's really whether a potentially harmful thread is worth keeping on this public forum or not for the future of the site. Seems to me more paople are beneifiting then not from this moderation including the site

 

[Mtbike]

Part of my point is that there is really no way for the mods to justify their decision, it's really whether a potentially harmful thread is worth keeping on this public forum or not for the future of the site. Seems to me more paople are beneifiting then not from this moderation including the site

So you are saying someone complaining about horrible customer service is detrimental to the existence to the site? How?

 

[Tootrikky]

Do a great job and someone my tell one person, do a poor job and that person will tell everyone. That is just the way people react to customer service.

I am not, never bought a thing there, been riding with them and their customers for yrs however. I just hate seeing dirty laundry being aired on RM which has done a lot of positive things for me and my mtbing experience.

Seems like once you let the cat out of the bag things get vicious, if someone is doing a bad job they will get found out through traditional means like word of mouth for instance. This is a public forum that anyone can see it is not fair for 1 or 10 peoples bad retail experience to influence one shop's reputation.

 

[Tootrikky]

So you are saying someone complaining about horrible customer service is detrimental to the existence to the site? How?

Sorry you will have to figure that out for your self, or should I say stop thinking about yourself, too figure that out.

 

[huckerAJ]

I have no connection to Darrin or DHZ. I actually own a bike shop in Renton called g.h.y bikes / gohuckyourself.com I think that it was a good thing that posts such as that be regulated. Lets just say that I have a customer who buys a product from me used or new and is never really satisfied. Does this mean that the shop should get bashed and lose money. Not commenting on the DHZ situation at all mind you. Is it fair to be openly flogged and maybe wrongfully accused. I try to treat every customer with respect and make them fully happy every time.

 

[greenhood]

I have no connection to Darrin or DHZ. I actually own a bike shop in Renton called g.h.y bikes / gohuckyourself.com I think that it was a good thing that posts such as that be regulated. Lets just say that I have a customer who buys a product from me used or new and is never really satisfied. Does this mean that the shop should get bashed and lose money. Not commenting on the DHZ situation at all mind you. Is it fair to be openly flogged and maybe wrongfully accused. I try to treat every customer with respect and make them fully happy every time.

Your shop is both respectful and helpful-This is why you are not subject to internet bashing. Keep up the great work.

 

[Mtbike]

Just as you have the right to display praise to said shop, people should also have the right to post their disagreements. If said shop owner is not a regular on this site, which is pretty doubtful, maybe you can express your concern to him. "Hey said shop owner, people are not happy with your service, maybe you should try and change how you treat the people who pay your bills". Simple

 

[LeroyJenkins]

I've also had some bad experiences with a certain bike shop and owners (Not the one in question which sparked this debate), and wished I had a public forum to voice them, although losing the revenue of 15K a year will probably get their attention.

I believe that word of mouth, and reputation is the cornerstone of a solid business, and good or bad experiences should be shared among consumers.

I do not support bashing, but if facts support poor business practices, then rightfully they should be brought to light.

 

[DirtyDog]

I can tell you that I know a few shops and mail order outfits that treat their customers like gold every time, without exception and you will never find a bad word about them anywhere. That's just how businesses should be run and I don't have much sympathy for the shops that find themselves on the negative end of some criticism.

 

[Tootrikky]

Just as you have the right to display praise to said shop, people should also have the right to post their disagreements. If said shop owner is not a regular on this site, which is pretty doubtful, maybe you can express your concern to him. "Hey said shop owner, people are not happy with your service, maybe you should try and change how you treat the people who pay your bills". Simple

You are %100 right. However the strings attached to these disagreements are too great. I am pretty sure no one connected with the ownership and or management of RM is getting rich, why wouldn't they delete these threads? Making sure someone's retail experience is good is not the purpose of RM, I hope.

I applaud them for keeping things positive, and constructive on this site. That's why I come here every day.

How is this not obvious??????

 

[Mtbike]

I have no connection to Darrin or DHZ. I actually own a bike shop in Renton called g.h.y bikes / gohuckyourself.com I think that it was a good thing that posts such as that be regulated. Lets just say that I have a customer who buys a product from me used or new and is never really satisfied. Does this mean that the shop should get bashed and lose money. Not commenting on the DHZ situation at all mind you. Is it fair to be openly flogged and maybe wrongfully accused. I try to treat every customer with respect and make them fully happy every time.

I would hope if you saw a thread from an unsatisfied customer you would try and nip it before it got out of hand. Businesses and people make mistakes, it is how they rectify those mistakes that counts.

 

[Tootrikky]

Oh BTW any of you notice the advertisements on this site??

Don't make me spell this out for you, please.

 

[MMike]

I applaud them for keeping things positive, and constructive on this site. That's why I come here every day.

How is this not obvious??????

The same question could be asked of you. And the definition of "constructive" is subjective.

As DD said, there are plenty of shops out there where no-one has felt the need to post anything negative about them. There are those (like say Toshi) who would consider it constructive to be armed with the experience of others.

This is the age we live in. The internet is part of the "word of mouth" process.

 

[Tootrikky]

Someone should start a bike shop review website funded solely on free viagra advertising.

 

[MMike]

Businesses and people make mistakes, it is how they rectify those mistakes that counts.

Ah.....but this shop never EVER makes mistakes. And how DARE you suggest such at thing.

 

[Mtbike]

You are %100 right. However the strings attached to these disagreements are too great. I am pretty sure no one connected with the ownership and or mangement of RM is getting rich, why wouldn't they delete these threads. Making sure someone's retail experience is good is not the purpose of this RM.

I applaud them for keeping things positive, and constructive on this site. That's why I come here every day.

How is this not obvious??????

You are right. No need to continue being negative, summer is on its way.

Let's put the gauntlet down one more time. Let's bygones be bygones. Let said shop continue to perform poorly. They will give themselves enough rope to hang themselves.

 

[Tootrikky]

The same question could be asked of you. And the definition of "constructive" is subjective.

As DD said, there are plenty of shops out there where no-one has felt the need to post anything negative about them. There are those (like say Toshi) who would consider it constructive to be armed with the experience of others.

This is the age we live in. The internet is part of the "word of mouth" process.

Hmm counterpoint as far as I know every shop out there has people who have felt the need to say negative things about them.

Not saying this literally just saying if you are a retail shop someone eventually is leaving your doors unhappy.

 

[Mtbike]

Hmm as far as I know every shop out there has people who have felt the need to say negative things about them.

Where are the threads?

 

[MMike]

I beg to differ.

Never heard anything bad about go-ride....or Fluidride for that matter (but that's another thread unto itself)

 

[Tootrikky]

Ah.....but this shop never EVER makes mistakes. And how DARE you suggest such at thing.

Is this personal or something? I thought it was a friendly debate, guess I am a sucker.

 

[davep]

MMike, I dont know you, but any one with the ability to do a search knows that you have an axe to grind with said shop.

That being said, I agree with you for the most part. I have felt uncomfortable being in that shop before. IMHO, the biggest problem they face, is seperating 'bros' from customers. I never know if i should walk behind the counter/expect a discount/etc like many people I see in there....at the same time, I feel like I am interrupting something...I do think that this is something common in a quite small sport like this, and not an easy thing to deal with/correct.

I used to run a small shop with a similar customer base, and this same issue was always on topic. It is very hard to not alienate new customers when every one you know is a 'bro'. I ended up fireing a good friend for very similar issues that could not be solved....I heard several times from people that I eventully became friends with, they felt like they were 'walking into a private conversation' when they would walk in to the shop.....in my experience, it tales a lot of work to avoid/eliminate this reaction in this type of shop.


They could do more to address this, and the sales at competing shops will prove it......but there are some good people at that shop!!


In the end, they have obviously made some mistakes, but the DO support this sport and our small DH community.

 

[PRotoolsman]

Is dh zone doing that well as a business? Someone said that they wouldnt be around this long if they had been doing business. Lets not forget that until recently they were one of the only dh specific shops in the seattle metro area. Now with other shops and more options I think this will really benefit the consumer. I have a masters in business,and i can tell you that by the way dh zones lack of inventory has been,and there lack of really expanding as a business at all iif not digressing; I can tell you with out a doubt that they are not a thriving business.

I really like the compassion people have for people they know and I can completely understand it. I got ripped off by this shop multiple times,and if it were you or your brother or friend you would be pissed. This is just an internet forum,so people can spew there opinions just to waste time. I have never ever wrote anything negative about any business in my life. If it was a one time incident and they fixed it, no problem. If they continued to rip someone off that didnt know any better like a ****ing used car dealership;well then Im going to share this with everyone I possibly can so that maybe I can prevent it happening from my friends(which are other riders).

 

[Tootrikky]

Is dh zone doing that well as a business? Someone said that they wouldnt be around this long if they had been doing business. Lets not forget that until recently they were one of the only dh specific shops in the seattle metro area. Now with other shops and more options I think this will really benefit the consumer. I have a masters in business,and i can tell you that by the way dh zones lack of inventory has been,and there lack of really expanding as a business at all iif not digressing; I can tell you with out a doubt that they are not a thriving business.

I really like the compassion people have for people they know and I can completely understand it. I got ripped off by this shop multiple times,and if it were you or your brother or friend you would be pissed. This is just an internet forum,so people can spew there opinions just to waste time. I have never ever wrote anything negative about any business in my life. If it was a one time incident and they fixed it, no problem. If they continued to rip someone off that didnt know any better like a ****ing used car dealership;well then Im going to share this with everyone I possibly can so that maybe I can prevent it happening from my friends(which are other riders).

Sorry to about the trial by fire, I wouldn't worry about it. I think this is mainly an argument fueled by old grudges and so on.

 

[Serial Midget]

I used mention my very bad experience with the Peak Bike Shop before they moved into town. I never said or wrote anything that wasn't true and verifiable... they've since gone out of business.