[3D.]

Holy crap.... Ok, did you actually LOOK at the links that you just posted (ie, the ones inside of the wiki article you linked to)???



Hmmmmm. Let's look a little bit into that. It has the [6] tag, meaning that if you click that you are brought up to....



You know, the article I was just debunking since it is claiming that everything from the Treasury to NASA to the State Dept, etc.

Even with that, it still comes no where near the $1.6t that you claimed originally. I'm done with this conversation unless you can come up with something with a bit more credibility than wikipedia or some unsubstantiated ramblings from the "Independent Institute (2007)".

I didn’t see that in there at first, I went right to the government reports. Funny how you pounced on that one in an attempt to dissolve the argument.

Here, let the government tell you what their 2010 military liabilities were:
http://comptroller.defense.gov/cfs/fy2010/01_DoD_Agency-Wide/Fiscal_Year_2010_DoD_Agencywide_Agency%20Financial%20Report.pdf

DOD Report- In total, the Department had $1.2 trillion in available budgetary resources (2010).
Of the $1.2 trillion in total budgetary resources, $1.1 trillion (92 percent) were obligated and $994 billion (90 percent) of obligations were disbursed. The remaining ten percent of unobligated budgetary resources relate to appropriations available to cover multi-year modernization projects, which require additional time to procure.

In short, they blew and are now responsible for at least $1.2 trillion for 2010, that they’ve actually publicly disclosed. Just because the remaining 10% of what they like to call “multi-year modernization projects” hasn’t yet been disbursed, it doesn’t mean they weren’t acquired in 2010 and there won't be more of the same “unobligated”, “blow up a city, have to rebuild it and install a new military base over the next couple years” acquisitions for the 2011 budget. And these numbers are for sure dumbed down considering that some sections are, in their terms, “unable to be audited“. yeah ok??

Take the percentage of those 2010 overages and apply them to 2011 and it’s easy to see that they will be large and easily over shadowing the 2010 $1.2 trillion in liabilities, regardless of how many marginal items like FBI counter-terrorism are included.

So whether or not the 2010 DOD budget was $1.1 trillion, $1.2 trillion, or $1.35 trillion let it not retract the intentions of my original point that it’s entirely way too much for what this country is facing right now.

Don’t use the argument that I’m way off with my numbers here (cause I’m not, we’re talking about more than a trillion for 2010, not $663 billion) to minimize the fact that we’re blowing more money than god has, to unjustly attack foreign soils while our schools, infrastructure, and well being of this country goes to shlt!

My intentions were not to make a debate over the 2010 budget being $1 trillion or $1.3 trillion... Like I said earlier, it’s a black and white issue regardless of how much you want to nit pick on the decimal point. A trillion or more a year is simply waaaay too much for war.

dante, obviously you’re going to be right here regardless of what I show you. That’s fine, you’re one of the millions of americans that can be asked to eat a shlt cicle and say yummy, no matter how putrid it smells or tastes. The sad part about it is really, the longer intelligent people like yourself continue to defend such atrocious spending, the quicker this country will meet it’s final demise.

So for the record, dante wins. Signing off for now

 

[Pesqueeb]

pesqueeb, why don't you concentrate on booking airline tickets or ripping stubs at the gate, and stop posting up irrelevant pie graphs from 2008, it's an annoying disturbance to the conversation here.

Sorry if mixing pictures and words in the same post confuses you. If you were paying attention you would know that I'm not a gate agent, I in fact fill the tank where the dispersant goes for the chemtrails. Those mind controlling chemicals don't spray themselves you know.

In the mean time, have a little neg rep. We all work hard enough we all might be able to put you in a race to the bottom with desmondo.

 

[ridiculous]

I still want to know how someone that makes 63k has 49k to blow.

 

[dante]

I still want to know how someone that makes 63k has 49k to blow.

And yet still only spends $280 on food cooked inside the home. For a family of 4.

 

[stoney]

I still want to know how someone that makes 63k has 49k to blow.

We like to call it a debtors society.

 

[Pesqueeb]

And yet still only spends $280 on food cooked inside the home. For a family of 4.

Yea, that seems.....optimistic. I mean, we go so far as to make our own bread and yogurt, we buy almost no meat and there are only 3 of us. Yet my wife still budgets 100 a week for groceries and every week we push that limit pretty hard.

 

[ridiculous]

We like to call it a debtors society.

This is what I was thinking. But then I saw "cash contributions"

 

[MMike]

Sorry if mixing pictures and words in the same post confuses you. If you were paying attention you would know that I'm not a gate agent, I in fact fill the tank where the dispersant goes for the chemtrails. Those mind controlling chemicals don't spray themselves you know.

.

AHAHAHAHAHA....I sat beside a guy when I was at Boeing who believed in that. He talked at me for an exhaustingly long time about it. Good thing I was paid by the hour......

 

[dante]

So whether or not the 2010 DOD budget was $1.1 trillion, $1.2 trillion, or $1.35 trillion let it not retract the intentions of my original point that it’s entirely way too much for what this country is facing right now.

Yes, we are spending WAY too much on the DoD, especially on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. However, much of the additional spending (over and above the $738b DoD budget) is money that has already been spent (interest on previous wars), or promises that we have made to our soldiers (VA benefits, pensions, government backed insurance, loans, etc).

The whole point (that you're missing) is that even if we cut the DoD budget ($738b) to zero, we're still running a budget deficit. If we cut all of the veterans affairs ($122b) budget to zero, close the VA hospitals, and eliminate the military pensions, we're still running a budget deficit. If we cut the military retirement budget ($50b) to zero, we're still running a deficit. WE HAVE NO MONEY.

What's more, if you're upset about having to pay high state and local taxes, you should be pushing for HIGHER federal income taxes, not lower. Remember, the federal income tax is progressive, while sales taxes and SS is regressive. When the fed cuts funding for the Dept of Education, guess where that money comes from, either state funding (raises your state income tax) or local funding (particularly when the state funding dries up like it has in the last 2 years) which means your property taxes go up. When federal government aid for Medicaid, welfare or unemployment insurance goes down, your state taxes go up. So don't lump all taxes together and claim that you're being "taxed to death", because if you are there's a reason for it; federal income tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy and has "trickled down" into higher state, local and property taxes for the rest of us.

But you're right, this topic has been beaten to death.

 

[dante]

Yea, that seems.....optimistic. I mean, we go so far as to make our own bread and yogurt, we buy almost no meat and there are only 3 of us. Yet my wife still budgets 100 a week for groceries and every week we push that limit pretty hard.

Same here, although there's only 2 of us (although we do enjoy the nice cut of meat every now and again). I can only assume that the other number in that, the food cooked outside of the home accounts for the cheap takeout food like McDonalds/Burger King/etc that makes up a large portion of the American diet. We don't eat out as much, but still spend between $400 and $500 each month on groceries (although that includes items from a grocery store like beer/wine/cleaning supplies/pet supplies/etc). MINT is awesome for tracking this kind of stuff if you're interested.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Yes, we are spending WAY too much on the DoD, especially on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. However, much of the additional spending (over and above the $738b DoD budget) is money that has already been spent (interest on previous wars), or promises that we have made to our soldiers (VA benefits, pensions, government backed insurance, loans, etc).

The whole point (that you're missing) is that even if we cut the DoD budget ($738b) to zero, we're still running a budget deficit. If we cut all of the veterans affairs ($122b) budget to zero, close the VA hospitals, and eliminate the military pensions, we're still running a budget deficit. If we cut the military retirement budget ($50b) to zero, we're still running a deficit. WE HAVE NO MONEY.

What's more, if you're upset about having to pay high state and local taxes, you should be pushing for HIGHER federal income taxes, not lower. Remember, the federal income tax is progressive, while sales taxes and SS is regressive. When the fed cuts funding for the Dept of Education, guess where that money comes from, either state funding (raises your state income tax) or local funding (particularly when the state funding dries up like it has in the last 2 years) which means your property taxes go up. When federal government aid for Medicaid, welfare or unemployment insurance goes down, your state taxes go up. So don't lump all taxes together and claim that you're being "taxed to death", because if you are there's a reason for it; federal income tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy and has "trickled down" into higher state, local and property taxes for the rest of us.

But you're right, this topic has been beaten to death.

Well thats just because you've got your head stuck in the sand and are a tool of the one world government Dante. Because no one here has ever, ever implied we should cut military spending before.

Same here, although there's only 2 of us (although we do enjoy the nice cut of meat every now and again). I can only assume that the other number in that, the food cooked outside of the home accounts for the cheap takeout food like McDonalds/Burger King/etc that makes up a large portion of the American diet. We don't eat out as much, but still spend between $400 and $500 each month on groceries (although that includes items from a grocery store like beer/wine/cleaning supplies/pet supplies/etc). MINT is awesome for tracking this kind of stuff if you're interested.

We have a separate "booze" line in teh Quicken that is not part of the "groceries" line item. Its on different page now and I don't feel like going back and looking but I seem to remember the chart in question also separated alcohol spending (and that it seemed low to me). MINT anything like quicken? The wife does our check book and she loves her quicken.

 

[stoney]

We have a separate "booze" line in teh Quicken that is not part of the "groceries" line item. Its on different page now and I don't feel like going back and looking but I seem to remember the chart in question also separated alcohol spending (and that it seemed low to me). MINT anything like quicken? The wife does our check book and she loves her quicken.

Quicken is mint on steroids. When I back out booze, it pains me to see how much I spend on it. It also explains the extra 20# I put on in the last 6, as the ramp in weight is in unison with the ramp in alcohol expenditures...

I have used both and prefer Quicken as you can get far more detailed with Quicken. The detailed reports are amazing too. I have three cars, each with their own parent category (Jetta, Forester SG, Forester SH), then maintenance - parts & maintenance - labor, and additions. This really allows me to breakout and see where my expenses go.

Same for things like alcohol. Looking at the extended costs (bottle redemption fees and alcohol taxes) shows how much I am actually spending. It was enough for us to get a few recycling bins to take our bottles and cans to the recycling center on our own. We load up both foresters and walk away with ~ $50 each trip. It's not 'a lot', but if I'm paying the rebatable fee, I'm getting my money back.

It takes time to really get a usable database, but once you have it, it's hard not to use it.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Quicken is mint on steroids. When I back out booze, it pains me to see how much I spend on it. It also explains the extra 20# I put on in the last 6, as the ramp in weight is in unison with the ramp in alcohol expenditures...

I have used both and prefer Quicken as you can get far more detailed with Quicken. The detailed reports are amazing too. I have three cars, each with their own parent category (Jetta, Forester SG, Forester SH), then maintenance - parts & maintenance - labor, and additions. This really allows me to breakout and see where my expenses go.

Same for things like alcohol. Looking at the extended costs (bottle redemption fees and alcohol taxes) shows how much I am actually spending. It was enough for us to get a few recycling bins to take our bottles and cans to the recycling center on our own. We load up both foresters and walk away with ~ $50 each trip. It's not 'a lot', but if I'm paying the rebatable fee, I'm getting my money back.

It takes time to really get a usable database, but once you have it, it's hard not to use it.

Yea, that’s how we’ve been using it. We've been using quicken for 7+ years and the detailed reports can be pretty eye opening. The amount we spend on alcohol sometimes for one, but the way I figure it, we’ve got no car payments and were paying extra every month on the house and the motorcycle plus we put cash in savings, so we owe ourselves a little something. My wife breaks down everything, to the point where both dogs and the cat have individual entries. When our computer crashed several years ago my wife was damn near in tears over losing all of her "scheduled" stuff. The lesson there of course was that I needed to be much more diligent backing up our data. If MINT is not as detailed I see no reason to change.

 

[stoney]

Yea, that’s how we’ve been using it. We've been using quicken for 7+ years and the detailed reports can be pretty eye opening. The amount we spend on alcohol sometimes for one, but the way I figure it, we’ve got no car payments and were paying extra every month on the house and the motorcycle plus we put cash in savings, so we owe ourselves a little something. My wife breaks down everything, to the point where both dogs and the cat have individual entries. When our computer crashed several years ago my wife was damn near in tears over losing all of her "scheduled" stuff. The lesson there of course was that I needed to be much more diligent backing up our data. If MINT is not as detailed I see no reason to change.

I just started sending myself an email with the current backup file every 2 weeks or so.

 

[$tinkle]

I just started sending myself an email with the current backup file every 2 weeks or so.

is this your backup strategery?

don't get me wrong: you're a leg up on most, who *never* back up

 

[stoney]

is this your backup strategery?

don't get me wrong: you're a leg up on most, who *never* back up

I have a dual drive backup, but for quicken I want a no questions remote for the Quicken file.

 

[Pesqueeb]

I have a dual drive backup, but for quicken I want a no questions remote for the Quicken file.

I have done this, some time back I created a file with all of our valuables, serial numbers photos etc. Its on two separate hard drives in our desktop, on a flashdrive I keep at work, and I e-mailed myself the file so now its floating on the cloud. I hadn't thought about doing that for the quicken file but I'll probably start doing that once a month or so now just so that if something catastrophic happens at home our finances at least won't be a complete loss.

 

[stoney]

I have done this, some time back I created a file with all of our valuables, serial numbers photos etc. Its on two separate hard drives in our desktop, on a flashdrive I keep at work, and I e-mailed myself the file so now its floating on the cloud. I hadn't thought about doing that for the quicken file but I'll probably start doing that once a month or so now just so that if something catastrophic happens at home our finances at least won't be a complete loss.

If the house is burning down, wife needs to do two things:

1) Grab the hard drive
2) Grab the cat

In that order.

 

[$tinkle]

I have done this, some time back I created a file with all of our valuables, serial numbers photos etc. Its on two separate hard drives in our desktop, on a flashdrive I keep at work, and I e-mailed myself the file so now its floating on the cloud. I hadn't thought about doing that for the quicken file but I'll probably start doing that once a month or so now just so that if something catastrophic happens at home our finances at least won't be a complete loss.

encrypted, i hope? i ask b/c the very scenario you'd need to get it from the cloud may put you in a situation where you're in the clear (open n-work, guest machine, etc.), and this sensitive data can be broadcast. any script kiddie can set up a wireshark honeypot

If the house is burning down, wife needs to do two things:

1) Grab the hard drive
2) Grab the cat

In that order.

consolidate? no guarantees they're in the same room or stationary

 

[stoney]

consolidate? no guarantees they're in the same room or stationary

Hard drive is number 1. Cat is number 2. If you can't find the cat, I'll get you a new one or two.

 

[SkaredShtles]

encrypted, i hope? i ask b/c the very scenario you'd need to get it from the cloud may put you in a situation where you're in the clear (open n-work, guest machine, etc.), and this sensitive data can be broadcast. any script kiddie can set up a wireshark honeypot
consolidate? no guarantees they're in the same room or stationary

More concerning is that there's no guarantee anybody will be home when the fire starts. Hard drive offsite.

 

[$tinkle]

ok, as of fri, i've already paid (and yes, i believe 'paid' is the most accurate verb)

FICA: 314
MEDICARE: 108
FED W/H: 740
STATE W/H: 248

total: 1410 or so for this pay pd, which is around $36/yr, which i wouldn't mind so much if i could get a .xls showing the breakout of where it went, and how i could opt out & fund my own, but i guess the sense i have is that it's going down the crapper. not all of it, but an unnecessary amount. and yes, it's only a hunch, hence my 'i wish i could see it get flushed' desire.

this is to say nothing of the other fees/taxes/etc. in non-trivial amounts. seems to me we had libraries/roads/other infrastructure before this got away from us.

are we being boiled? should i too drop off the grid & grab onto hind teet?

 

[Pesqueeb]

More concerning is that there's no guarantee anybody will be home when the fire starts. Hard drive offsite.

Exactly. That’s why, at least with the file I created for our valuables, I keep a copy on the flash drive that’s stored at work. That way if we lose the place to fire, tornado, locusts, whatever, I can prove to Allstate that I actually owned all the stuff I'm claiming I lost. Is balancing the checkbook going to be my number on priority in this situation? Probably not. I can't prepare for everything but I'm trying to reduce my exposure.

As for the quicken stuff, I'll have to double check, but I don't believe the back up file contains bank account #'s or passwords or anything sensitive other than how much were spending on toilet paper and beer. Besides if some kid with mad hackzor skillz wants into my computer bad enough I only have Norton, my passwords and router password keeping them out. I'm not the NSA but I'm at least smart enough to secure my network.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Exactly. That’s why, at least with the file I created for our valuables, I keep a copy on the flash drive that’s stored at work. That way if we lose the place to fire, tornado, locusts, whatever, I can prove to Allstate that I actually owned all the stuff I'm claiming I lost. Is balancing the checkbook going to be my number on priority in this situation? Probably not. I can't prepare for everything but I'm trying to reduce my exposure.

As for the quicken stuff, I'll have to double check, but I don't believe the back up file contains bank account #'s or passwords or anything sensitive other than how much were spending on toilet paper and beer. Besides if some kid with mad hackzor skillz wants into my computer bad enough I only have Norton, my passwords and router password keeping them out. I'm not the NSA but I'm at least smart enough to secure my network.

http://www.axantum.com/axcrypt/

Get it. Super easy to use. Create a password encrypted key file that you keep somewhere safe... use it to encrypt all your sensitive data on the PC.

 

[Pesqueeb]

http://www.axantum.com/axcrypt/

Get it. Super easy to use. Create a password encrypted key file that you keep somewhere safe... use it to encrypt all your sensitive data on the PC.

This is relevant to my interests. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[ohio]

Jesus christ, people, hard drives?

There's a thing called the internet. You're on it right now. Use the ****ing cloud.

Mozy that bitch.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Jesus christ, people, hard drives?

There's a thing called the internet. You're on it right now. Use the ****ing cloud.

Mozy that bitch.

Uhh... yeah. I think I'll pass.

 

[ohio]

Uhh... yeah. I think I'll pass.

Yeah, why would I want to use a highly redundant, encrypted system in a remote location for all of my backup when I can use local physical media that wears out, breaks, and can be stolen and hacked as or more easily than the web service?

I will hand it to you, HDs are super durable. I've definitely never had four or five of them fail from, just, like, use.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Yeah, why would I want to use a highly redundant, encrypted system in a remote location for all of my backup when I can use local physical media that wears out, breaks, and can be stolen and hacked as or more easily than the web service?

At least when you get your drive stolen you know it.

I will hand it to you, HDs are super durable. I've definitely never had four or five of them fail from, just, like, use.

Maybe I'm just lucky... but I've never had a hard drive fail catastrophically in any of my home use.

 

[dante]

I was in a small discussion group with a high ranking Senator today. The discussion turned to solvency of states and his mood turned somber noting that IL and CA put us into a Lehman/AIG situation. If you let IL fail, what happens when CA comes next? What if you bail them out? Precedence is set.

And he noted quite clearly, it's not if they fail, it's when. He also mentioned that the Feds are trying to write law around states declaring bankruptcy, but that should take 1-2 years, which will be far to late.

Pretty ominous stuff.

Our resident Joker snakes the NYT by a week!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/business/economy/21bankruptcy.html?_r=1&hp

 

[stoney]

Our resident Joker snakes the NYT by a week!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/business/economy/21bankruptcy.html?_r=1&hp

Suck it SM. How's that crow taste?

 

[dante]

Suck it SM. How's that crow taste?

I will say, after reading that article (and the Weekly Standard from a couple months ago), it seems to be just a way for the GOP to fvck over public employees. Sure, bondholders will take a haircut, but suddenly millions of current public employees and retirees watch their pensions go *poof*. You know, the services guaranteed to them by state contracts... If that's not bringing the absolute worst and despicable part of Corporate America® to our State and Local governments, I don't know what is.

Maybe it's just because my father worked for the same company for 35+ years, and watched his "guaranteed pension" evaporate into thin air when he was 55 years old. His company (successful NYC corporate law firm, although he was only a file clerk) merged with another law firm, cashed out the pension, handed him a check for $8k and told him he was on his own for retirement. Now my mother is finishing her career in the NYS school system, which she entered 20+ years ago almost solely due to its benefits package; good health care and a guaranteed pension/health care when you retire. If it hadn't been for those benefits, she would have looked for employment elsewhere and made more money.

And this complete and utter fvcking over public employees is just to avoid *ACTUALLY ACTING FISCALLY RESPONSIBLY*. You know, cutting spending and raising revenue. But no, tax cuts for the rich are patriotic. Bitching and moaning about a rise from 3% to 5% in state income tax is patriotic. Claiming we're taxed to death when we're paying a lower effective federal income tax rate than anytime since the 1980s is patriotic. Fvcking over those greedy public employees just because their average income hasn't declined like the rest of America's is patriotic. Breaking contracts just because it's fiscally advantageous of you to do so is patriotic.

Yeah, give me a break. The only reason your Senator doesn't think it's going to happen for another 2 years is the Democrats will NEVER go along with this. And my guess is, the public won't either... Pat Quinn (IL) was elected on a platform of RAISING taxes. Chris Christie was elected on a platform of cutting spending, and has been getting reasonably good poll numbers. Americans are willing to accept hardship to get us out of this financial hole we're in. They just need leadership to do what's right instead of what's popular.

 

[stoney]

How do you get out of debt:

1) Stop spending
2) Cut unnecessary expenses
3) Spend less money than you make, use the rest for debt payments
4) Calculate your liabilities, divide by the number of years you have to pay them off, and pay them off accordingly.
5) Spend even less money if you need it to pay off your debts.
6) Increase your income

These are all things that need to be done in unison. If you miss even one, you will likely fail.
I really wish some polititians were required to take economics and business classes prior to being allowed to take office.

 

[dante]

How do you get out of debt:

1) Stop spending campaign slogan
2) Cut unnecessary expenses true
3) Spend less money than you make, use the rest for debt payments true
4) Calculate your liabilities, divide by the number of years you have to pay them off, and pay them off accordingly. not practical, you should pay off as fast as possible
5) Spend even less money if you need it to pay off your debts. not practical
6) Increase your income true

These are all things that need to be done in unison. If you miss even one, you will likely fail.
I really wish some polititians were required to take economics and business classes prior to being allowed to take office.

I really wish ALL politicians were required to take economics and business classes before being allowed to take office. I also wish that the American public was required to take them as well, since 56% of them believe we can cut the deficit without raising taxes...

 

[$tinkle]

I also wish that the American public was required to take them as well, since 56% of them believe we can cut the deficit without raising taxes...

we can.

of course, this does not mean we *will*

 

[stoney]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker
How do you get out of debt:

1) Stop spending - campaign slogan painful, but possible
2) Cut unnecessary expenses - true
3) Spend less money than you make, use the rest for debt payments - true
4) Calculate your liabilities, divide by the number of years you have to pay them off, and pay them off accordingly. - not practical, you should pay off as fast as possible agree, but you need to start somewhere that is palatable, and feasible. you can't pay off all of your debt immediately, and sometimes it is worth taking an interest hit to prevent too much front end damage
5) Spend even less money if you need it to pay off your debts. - not practical painful, but possible
6) Increase your income - true

These are all things that need to be done in unison. If you miss even one, you will likely fail.
I really wish some polititians were required to take economics and business classes prior to being allowed to take office.

I think we generally agree

 

[dante]

we can.

of course, this does not mean we *will*

Ummm, technically, we can't. Putting aside mandatory spending, our deficit consumes almost 100% of the remaining discretionary spending. Furthermore, if you cut self-funded programs (SS, Medicare, Transportation) without lowering the taxes raised for those budget items, it's a de facto tax increase. So yeah, I'd really love to hear your budget proposal as to how we're going to cut $1.35t from the budget. You can use this as a guide if you want:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/02/01/us/budget.html?src=tp

 

[Pesqueeb]

56% of them believe we can cut the deficit without raising taxes...

Only 39% of Americans® believe in evolution, and 59 percent of GOPer's believe Obama wasn't born in America®. 48% of Americans® believe global warming is an exaggerated myth, 55% believe they have a guardian angel and 20 percent of Americans® think the Sun revolves around the fvcking earth.
We don't have just a budget crisis, we have an intelligence crisis.

 

[stoney]

Only 39% of Americans® believe in evolution, and 59 percent of GOPer's believe Obama wasn't born in America®. 48% of Americans® believe global warming is an exaggerated myth, 55% believe they have a guardian angel and 20 percent of Americans® think the Sun revolves around the fvcking earth.
We don't have just a budget crisis, we have an intelligence crisis.

must spread...

 

[dante]

I think we generally agree

God dammit, I've got all of this bottled-up rage since I wasn't able to -rep BMADED into submission, and here you go making reasonable posts and basically agreeing that we need to raise revenue and cut spending.