[carguy]

I said I'm almost afraid to ask because I've done a search and it does'nt seem like many of you talk about the Gary Fisher Sugar series. Anyways, I've been holding off on buy a 3+ because I wanted to see what they would do for 2003 (because of all the chain suck issues). So I rode one yesterday and I must say it felt good. The two biggest changes are the rear shock is now Fox Float R and the the fork is a new for 03 version of the RS Duke with U-turn travel adjust from 70mm to 108mm. The fork realy felt good, especially compared to the Blacks of the 02's.

Have any of you heard anything about the 03's? Please help me out. I have a friend that works at a shop and can get me 10-15% off the $1399 price of the 03 3+ or I can get an 02 4+ for $899 but I'll want to upgrade it. I'm so confused. Just so you all know I have tried a few others and just like the feel of the Sugar +. I would'nt mind a Kona Bear, but can't fork out the extra $400 and not sure I can justify it either.

Sorry for being wordy, just trying to make a decision by this friday!!

 

[carguy]

Help a brotha out!!

 

[RideMonkey]

I'd say get the 2002. Nothing in the bike industry is changing so much to justify an extra 300-400 for what is really the same bike.

 

[carguy]

Thanks for the reponce. So, you don't think the 03 Duke with U-turn and Fox Float rear shock would be worth it? You are right in one main respect...the frames are the same.

Anything else for suggestions that come close to the value per dollar of a Sugar 4+ for $899 (out the door)?

 

[Captain Cogset]

You can't get a deal on a 02 3+? Only the 4+. I have a 2000 Sugar 3 that I bought and gradually upgraded all the components on. I wanted the only frame and they didn't sell the frame only back then so I got the Sugar 3 because it was the cheapest knowing I was going to replace everything on it eventually.

 

[RideMonkey]

Originally posted by carguy
Thanks for the reponce. So, you don't think the 03 Duke with U-turn and Fox Float rear shock would be worth it? You are right in one main respect...the frames are the same.

Anything else for suggestions that come close to the value per dollar of a Sugar 4+ for $899 (out the door)?

I have a psylo race which is the only Psylo without Uturn. Do I miss it? I don't think I would ever use it, so no.

Although in general I do prefer Rock Shox products to Manitou.

 

[carguy]

Yeah, they do have the 02 3+ on sale but not nearly at the same percentage of a drop as the 4+, the 02 3+ is $1,199 which hardly makes it worth the diference in price over the 03 3+. I also forgot to mention that the 03 3+ has ISIS crankset (still Bonrager though) but thought I'd mention it. I'm sure it would still need to be swaped out for an XT or better crank set.

Just sucks you can't tell much from just a parking lot test ride between the two.

 

[DHS]

i would say get the 2003 suger 3+. best parts for the buck. if you ever wanted to upgrade to disks, there were many problems with the 02 blacks that came stock on the sugars. the mount was machined right. though if you're a heavier rider i would say stay with the cane creek shock it can support more of abuse. the Bontrager cranks/BB are Trufativ design, so they're not so bad. You may or may not sue the U-turn. but it sure as hell would be fun to play with once in a while.

on another note, i bought my dad a 02 4+ and had to upgrade the cranks to LX splined. and now it works great.

goodluck

 

[carguy]

Thanks DHS, I think I am going to go with the 03 3+. I got an email back from a Gary Fisher tech guy and he said the 03 3+ has a Truvativ ISIS BB and the Bontrager ISIS Race crankset. On a lesser note he also said that they used more ZR9000 in the frame for 03 so it is a little lighter than the 02.

Anyone know if the stickers on the Sugars come off easily? Theres a couple graphics that I would like to remove.

 

[DHS]

well it would matter what stickers on the frame you want to get rid of. but if you have a hair dryer around that would help lots.

 

[carguy]

Yeah, I'll give that a try. It's just some of the stripe type graphics that I think clutter it up a bit. I just need to get this over with, I still keep having second thoughts. I'm going in today after work to buy it...time to pull the trigger.

 

[JJHACK]

Do what ever you have to to get the Kona Bear. I would never own another Fisher/Trek/Klein in my life. They jerked me around so bad with the sorry excuse for a bike ( my 2001 sugar 3) I was ready to leave it at the store unlocked so sombody would steal it and I could collect the insurance!

The first 20 days I had this bike it was in LBS 8 days and they were no closer to solving the Chain Suck issues then when they started. Maybe they have the chain suck figured out but the way it was handled from the start was a disaster. I eventually called Fisher Direct in Wisconsin and had a tough conversation with their chief "tech support" guy. He admitted to me they ahd about a 15% return rate and several engineers trying to figure out the problem. So why should it take 2 months to get me a replacement when they knew the problem all along?

I told the LBS I wanted a refund and bought a Rocky Mountain Element Race. That turned out to be the best choice over all because the RM was a much better made bike. I also have a 2002 Kona Stinky deelux and having used it now for a while I can tell you that the Kona's are the best bike's I have ridden. I rented a Bear in Las Vegas and rode it around Red Rocks Canyon for a whole day. The next day I rented a stinky. I bought a Stinky Deelux a while after that because it fit me better and was probably better and bigger hits. I also got a smoken deal on the bike, and I also wanted a coil rear shock not an air shock.

The bear was much more plush then my RM element race and about 3 pounds heavier. If it were not for the air shock in the back I probably would have bought a Kona bear. The Bear is about the most perfect overall "backcountry" bike made. It's not a light weight race bike, and it's not a heavier Hucking type downhill bike. It's just right for nearly everything.

 

[carguy]

I'm sorry to hear about you're bad luck. But along with every bad story is a good one. It seems every single review that I've read on the Sugar+ series ends in a good note. Yes the majority had the same problems you had but with either the swapping out of the crankset/BB (under warranty) or a new rear triangle (also warranty) it seems everyone absolutely loves the bike. These problems are supposedly all solved now with the 03s.

With a 15% discount the price would be $1190 and the best I could find on a Bear was $1650, its tough for me right now to justify the $460 difference.

 

[carguy]

Oh crap! I just talked a guy down to $1530 for a Kona Bear at my LBS. Now I'm REAL confused!!! What do you think I should do?

 

[JJHACK]

I wish you well Buddy! I hope the Sugar is all you want it to be and that you have no problems.

 

[Captain Cogset]

Originally posted by JJHACK
Do what ever you have to to get the Kona Bear. I would never own another Fisher/Trek/Klein in my life. They jerked me around so bad with the sorry excuse for a bike ( my 2001 sugar 3) I was ready to leave it at the store unlocked so sombody would steal it and I could collect the insurance!

The first 20 days I had this bike it was in LBS 8 days and they were no closer to solving the Chain Suck issues then when they started. Maybe they have the chain suck figured out but the way it was handled from the start was a disaster. I eventually called Fisher Direct in Wisconsin and had a tough conversation with their chief "tech support" guy. He admitted to me they ahd about a 15% return rate and several engineers trying to figure out the problem. So why should it take 2 months to get me a replacement when they knew the problem all along?

I told the LBS I wanted a refund and bought a Rocky Mountain Element Race. That turned out to be the best choice over all because the RM was a much better made bike. I also have a 2002 Kona Stinky deelux and having used it now for a while I can tell you that the Kona's are the best bike's I have ridden. I rented a Bear in Las Vegas and rode it around Red Rocks Canyon for a whole day. The next day I rented a stinky. I bought a Stinky Deelux a while after that because it fit me better and was probably better and bigger hits. I also got a smoken deal on the bike, and I also wanted a coil rear shock not an air shock.

The bear was much more plush then my RM element race and about 3 pounds heavier. If it were not for the air shock in the back I probably would have bought a Kona bear. The Bear is about the most perfect overall "backcountry" bike made. It's not a light weight race bike, and it's not a heavier Hucking type downhill bike. It's just right for nearly everything.

The chainsuck problem is a combination of the pivot design and the crappy cranks that come on the bike. I had same problem with my bike, 2000 Sugar3. I swapped the Bontrager cranks for XTR and haven't had chain suck since.

 

[Captain Cogset]

Originally posted by carguy
Oh crap! I just talked a guy down to $1530 for a Kona Bear at my LBS. Now I'm REAL confused!!! What do you think I should do?

They are 2 completely different styles of bikes, ride both and see which one feels better and fits your riding style.

 

[JJHACK]

The LBS changed out every gear componet, to XT, the BB and the cranks too. The tuned it until they were weary from adjustments.

Even the mechanics wanted to light it on fire for the stress it caused. Fisher themselves admitted strait up the design was a problem for about 15% of the bikes made. It was probably much higher then that if that was all they knew about. I would guess many people don't know how it should shift so they never complain.

When I had the LBS try to teach me proper shifting the first time I was there, I thought to myself these guys must have buffaloed plenty of Sugar owners into thinking it was there own shifting problem or operator error. I told him point blank he was FOS and suggested he get anyother bike off the floor and do a "side by side" comparison on how they shift, Don't even tell me this is my fault, or "normal operation".

He went to fetch the mechanic who quickly saw a problem and attempted to repair it. Just how many sugar owners have a non-shifting, poor shifting, chain dropping, or chain sucking bike who believe it's OK? If they claim 15% I bet it's 30% that are actually faulty.

The Sugar is nice in so many ways. I liked plenty of the features and the fit out of the box was like magic for my body. Too bad they just could not get it right with the whole package!

 

[carguy]

Well, I just went and tested the Bear it was a 17" (all they had..I need a 18 or 19, I'm 5'11" 185lbs) and it felt great! Nice solid feel. I wonder how much diferent the experience would be with the right sized frame? I'm now thinking I may do the jump to the Bear with the $1530 price, seems worth it in the long run.

 

[Gee]

My 02 Sugar 3+ Disc has chainsuck problems. Enough to put me off the brand for life. I will never buy fisher again. I will also never recommend it. Stay away from fisher.

My LBS tried to tell me that the chainsuck was my problem, lost respect for the LBS.

I am still riding the bike but have become an expert shifter. Also replace the chain and chainrings with something a little stronger than tin cans.

Stay away from Fisher.

 

[JMAC]

The bear is a very sweet bike never rode one not even seen one in real live but i like it if you aren't into racing and like doing extreme XC and some freeride mixed in go with the BEAR.

 

[carguy]

Thanks for all the help guys, I picked up my 18" Kona Bear last friday!!!! What a kick-ass bike! I have'nt felt this good about a large purchase in a while, well worth the extra $340 over the 3+. Soooooooo solid! And what a sweet looking ride.

 

[JJHACK]

You made the right choice, Nothing says Back county mounatian biking like a Kona bear!

 

[Big_Papa1080]

i would get a giant NRS. they have a lot of bang for the buck. nrs 1 and 2 come with discs, 3 just has the mounts.

 

[DHS]

i would say no to the NRS. who wants a bike that locks out the travel as you pedal, whats the point of that?
yah i spent more money on my FS bike just so i can lock it out on a bumby hill climbs, makes so much sense.
good choice on the Kona Bear.

 

[carguy]

Yeah, I agree. Not sure why he posted that anyways after I said that I bought the Kona???? The frame alone is worth the price of admission over a Giant.

 

[Rustmouse]

I recommend the bear, personally, but if yer leaning towards the spin of xc, the fisher is prolly gonna be a bettter bike for it....

I like the bear better, but then again, i'm a burly guy, and i'm not at all interested in replacing broken $1500 bikes!