[MtnBikerChk]

Since people have been saying that this cockpit looks kinda small for me (here)

I did some more digging and realized that when I was "fitted" the head tube angle on the fit bike was 73degrees - but the bikes I'm looking at are between 69-70.5 degrees. So the slacker angle is changing the effective TT length, right?

I wish someone would just give me the specs on paper and say "here, get this and you'll be happy" and then I'd go find the right fit.

 

[Westy]

A change in the head angle only will keep the same TT and lengthen the wheelbase. You do look awefully cramped on the bike. Was it a women specific frame or just a small one? I think most ladies need a regular top tube but shorter seat tube than the standard men's type offerings.

 

[DRB]

Since people have been saying that this cockpit looks kinda small for me (here)

I did some more digging and realized that when I was "fitted" the head tube angle on the fit bike was 73degrees - but the bikes I'm looking at are between 69-70.5 degrees. So the slacker angle is changing the effective TT length, right?

I wish someone would just give me the specs on paper and say "here, get this and you'll be happy" and then I'd go find the right fit.

Fitted for a mountain bike?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Fitted for a mountain bike?

well I went and go measured up to figure out what TT length I should be aiming for.


And Westy - Titus markets the xs as a women's specific frame.

 

[MMcG]

I think Westy has it right that the HT angle won't affect ETT - but it will affect steering and wheelbase length.

 

[DHS]

I think Westy has it right that the HT angle won't affect ETT - but it will affect steering and wheelbase length.

that sounds about right. but yes, you do look too big for that bike. do you feel comfy on it though?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I think Westy has it right that the HT angle won't affect ETT - but it will affect steering and wheelbase length.

so are we saying that:

21.3"TT + 68.75HT = 21.3" + 73HT ?

 

[stoney]

um... that bike is too small for you. fyi/.

 

[narlus]

so are we saying that:

21.3"TT + 68.75HT = 21.3" + 73HT ?

yes. think of a classic 'double-diamond' hardtail frame. the top tube can remain a constant length but the head angle (as dictated by the angle at which the head tube is welded to the top and down tubes, and also by the crown-to-axle distance of the installed fork) can vary.

make sense?

here's another example...say you take your blur and swap the current fork out for a boxxer...the top tube will remain the same (well, maybe the virtual top tube will change very slightly, but let's not get caught up in semantics), but the head angle will slacken considerably.

 

[MMcG]

The Effective top tube is essentially a straight line measurement from the center of the HT to the center of the Top Tube right? So HT Angle won't affect that measurement. But changing the seat tube angle would either make ETT longer or shorter right? ST angle is the key here not HT angle I think.

Where is Victor or some other bike shop guru person when you need em??

 

[MMcG]

Let's look at the ML Geometry Pic:

A is the ETT length on the frame right - changing the HT angle isn't gonna change that measurement. But if you were to increase or decrease the ST angle - that would change ETT. Right?

 

[sanjuro]

Fitted for a mountain bike?

The owner of my shop is a master-level Fit Kit technician, attended the Chester Kyle fit seminar, and owns a Mikkelsen sizer bike and a Waterford fit sizer.

And we rarely "fit" people to mountain bikes. With full suspension sag, adjustable travel, and how stem length has a pronounced effect on handling, it seems unnecessary to bust out the tape measure and set up the fit bikes.

On that note, from a casual glance, it looks like you have a relatively large amount of seatpost sticking up and your knees are rather close to the bars. You also look too upright as well. These all all signs of a too small bike.

 

[Westy]

Why on earth would Titus build an XS frame with a 73 deg HA? That thing must have handled like a squirrel.

 

[Alfred]

I've not seen a 73 degree HT angle on a mountain bike.

That said - HT won't change your comfort on the bike. It will just move your center of gravity forward.

For a trail bike, I would stay at 70 degrees or more slack. I would stay above 68 or so for any climbing. I have mine a bit more slack than 69 and it climbs pretty well for me.

 

[MMcG]

Why on earth would Titus build an XS frame with a 73 deg HA? That thing must have handled like a squirrel.

The fit bike had the 73 deg HTA - most likely a road bike fit bike.

 

[Westy]

The fit bike had the 73 deg HTA - most likely a road bike fit bike.

Ah the "fit" bike. I misunderstood and thought MBC meant the Titus she tested had the 73 HA.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I'm going to hide under a rock now.

 

[Alfred]

I've never heard of bike fit angles. I'm confused.

 

[MMcG]

Just keep riding and testing and have fun with it. If you were blown away by the ML we would have heard about it. It sounds like you liked it, but didn't love it. Keep riding different bikes and frames and when you find the one you love you'll know it.

 

[Chunky Munkey]

A change in the head angle only will keep the same TT and lengthen the wheelbase. You do look awefully cramped on the bike. Was it a women specific frame or just a small one? I think most ladies need a regular top tube but shorter seat tube than the standard men's type offerings.

My curiosity is...

How come women's bikes have the top bar lower and guys are higher when it's the guy who's gonna be suckin wind gasping for air if he falls off his seat crushing his doo dads into the top bar and women don't have doo dads to crush so why do they get the bike with the low bar when in actually they're not the ones that need it? And what about cross bar padding for the top bar for us guys? I mean c'mon! I still haven't had my kids yet! Which is one of the reasons I love my Y frame. Fallin many times on it and have been saved by a low bar. Thank you god!

 

[stoney]

Given the amount of bikey knowledge on this site, just post your vital specs out there. I'm pretty sure most of us can fit you based on a height, inseam, etc. The looks of you on that xs make me scream too small.

 

[stoney]

My curiosity is...

How come women's bikes have the top bar lower and guys are higher when it's the guy who's gonna be suckin wind gasping for air if he falls off his seat crushing his doo dads into the top bar and women don't have doo dads to crush so why do they get the bike with the low bar when in actually they're not the ones that need it? And what about cross bar padding for the top bar for us guys? I mean c'mon! I still haven't had my kids yet! Which is one of the reasons I love my Y frame. Fallin many times on it and have been saved by a low bar. Thank you god!

Y-Frame? Is it carbon? Because it it is, you can play it like a a banjo.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Given the amount of bikey knowledge on this site, just post your vital specs out there. I'm pretty sure most of us can fit you based on a height, inseam, etc. The looks of you on that xs make me scream too small.

inseam 70.7cm
shoulder width 38cm
height 5' 2.5"

what else would you like? LOL

 

[MMcG]

MBC - how tall is Isabelle? She's not much taller than you right?

Send her a note and check to see what size Titus frames she's riding. that might help.

 

[stoney]

we're american. what the hell is a cm?

 

[stoney]

I usually reserve XS frames for really little people. Although you are exceptionally small, I wouldn't consider you a dwarf. Have you ridden a small?

 

[I Are Baboon]

 

[stoney]

reset- is your suspension set up properly? it looks like your front doesn't move, while the rear is plush. IAB, how the susp set?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

I usually reserve XS frames for really little people. Although you are exceptionally small, I wouldn't consider you a dwarf. Have you ridden a small?

no

 

[I Are Baboon]

IAB, how the susp set?

 

[stoney]

Are you laughing because:
1. I am asking you how the susp is set instead of mbc
2. Because I am asking you a tech susp question?

Either way, it's funny now that I think about it.

 

[SilentJ]

The looks of you on that xs make me scream too small.

MBC, have you tried a small? It's hard to tell from the picture because you're obviously in action, but it sort of looks like there's too much sag in the rear suspension and not enough in the front (it looks slacker than a 70* bike in action should be to me). If thats the case, it would definitely contribute to this bike not climbing quite as well as your Blur (the front lifting).

You said in this tread that your wheels kept sliding out from under you...was it your front tire washing out or was it just that the rocks and roots were slippery? You look very upright and over the rear wheel in the picture.

 

[jimmydean]

You do look cramped on that bike, but if that's what you like, then rock on.

I am tall and like to be laid out when I ride. I like a lot of TT with a shorter stem. I also like a slacked seat angle so it is out of the way when down, but set right when up for seated climbs.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Are you laughing because:
1. I am asking you how the susp is set instead of mbc
2. Because I am asking you a tech susp question?

Either way, it's funny now that I think about it.

All of the above.

Now MBC is going to yell at you when she sees that you just assumed she couldn't answer that.

 

[stoney]

But seriously, for general trail riding I set bikes up as follows:
Rear- MAX 30% sag. Get out the ruler and start measuring i-2-i. This allows for a generally stiffer pedaling platform while providing enough positive travel for aggressive riding. take measurements while rider is in aggressive riding stance (ie standing, over teh bars)
Front Again max 30% sag, but with softer damping and quicker rebound than the rear.
Think of it this way, the front needs to track an move to clear obstacles. The rear just needs to not buck you at speed.

 

[jacksonpt]

MBC - do you have enough of an idea of what fits/feels good to be able to throw the numbers out the window and go based solely on feel? Or have you not had enough saddle time on an appropriately fitting bike to do that?

I just wonder if you're to the point where you're over thinking things.

 

[jacksonpt]

But seriously, for general trail riding I set bikes up as follows:
Rear- MAX 30% sag. Get out the ruler and start measuring i-2-i. This allows for a generally stiffer pedaling platform while providing enough positive travel for aggressive riding. take measurements while rider is in aggressive riding stance (ie standing, over teh bars)
Front Again max 30% sag, but with softer damping and quicker rebound than the rear.
Think of it this way, the front needs to track an move to clear obstacles. The rear just needs to not buck you at speed.

While I generally agree with this, rebound is highly dependant on terrain. And personal preference also plays a large role, but 25% is the starting point, IMO.

 

[TreeSaw]

Hmm....it does look a little small. I wish that you had been able to try an XS & a Small. I am not positive, but I am pretty sure that Isabelle rides a small Titus.

If I were you, I would keep trying out as many bikes as I can and enjoy the search. Try not to get too frustrated!

 

[sanjuro]

Let's look at the ML Geometry Pic:

A is the ETT length on the frame right - changing the HT angle isn't gonna change that measurement. But if you were to increase or decrease the ST angle - that would change ETT. Right?

Keep in mind that the head angle is being changed by that the fork crown is being raised or lowered.

I wish my geometry was better, but lets say with a 100mm fork, the angle is 71 degrees. Raise the fork up to 120mm, then the head angle is 70 degrees.

But when raising the fork height, the handlebars have been tilted up and back, as well as the seat and the bottom bracket. You would have to lower and move in the saddle to retain the same seat angle, which would put the seat closer to the bars.

I was thinking most fit sizers are geared around road bikes, which have typically have a 73 degree head angle. That would not be too helpful for mtn bike sizing...

 

[splat]

I usually reserve XS frames for really little people. Although you are exceptionally small, I wouldn't consider you a dwarf. Have you ridden a small?

No No Titus has an XXS for the darfs , or may kids as this case may Be and if you know Ann from Nemba , the XXS is still too big for her !