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I'm not a fan of cut-and-run, but this is a great quote

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,970
2,768
Portland, OR
Article:
Hawkish Democrat Calls for Iraq Pullout
http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20051117/D8DUC3C81.html
<snip>
Murtha, a Marine intelligence officer in Vietnam, angrily shot back at Cheney: "I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there. I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."
</snip>

I agree 100%. It's one of the things that bothers me most about this administration. So much so, that I ended my military career for good.
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,978
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
here's a good one...

"The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion," Murtha said.

That pretty much sums up the current administration.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,970
2,768
Portland, OR
N8 said:
I can relate to leaving the service because of the President.

I left because of Clinton.
I got a real job during the Clinton years, so in a way, I left then too (active duty Navy).
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
stinkyboy said:
You didn't want a pay raise?
Nah, he cut down their size and funding pretty significantly. Something that, apparently, is far worse than sending them all to their deaths over a non-existent cause.
 

stinkyboy

Plastic Santa
Jan 6, 2005
15,192
0
¡Phoenix!
LordOpie said:
I think he's afraid of BJs.
I read that the Senate went into closed session 9 TIMES regarding the BJ and the blue dress, but it's outrageous for a Dem to close it down once regarding national security...
 

stinkyboy

Plastic Santa
Jan 6, 2005
15,192
0
¡Phoenix!
ohio said:
Nah, he cut down their size and funding pretty significantly.
He cut overall spending, but the soldiers DID recieved raises. Let's not blur the facts.

Has GWB given the soldiers anything? A raise? Body armor? An exit plan?
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,792
36
Japan
I suspect it will only take a large number of troops being killed in a single incident (troop transport shot down or such forth) before the calls to bring the troops become too strong to ignore. Sucks to be Bush I guess, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Can't say I feel sorry for him though, he was warned.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,953
3,778
Sleazattle
valve bouncer said:
I suspect it will only take a large number of troops being killed in a single incident (troop transport shot down or such forth) before the calls to bring the troops become too strong to ignore. Sucks to be Bush I guess, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Can't say I feel sorry for him though, he was warned.
Sucks to be Bush? Sucks to be an Iraqi. Going to war in Iraq was as bad idea, leaving while things are unstable is pretty much retarded.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,975
34
Westy said:
But if it wasn't for don't ask don't tell they never would have let you in.
High goddamn five.

I just blew hot chocolate out my nose you dick!

:)
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
N8 said:
I can relate to leaving the service because of the President.

I left because of Clinton.
So why did you leave?

President did not serve in military? (Bush in Nat Guard, never left country)

President ineffectual when military force was required? (Iraq - 2000+ American soldiers killed)

President lied? (Where are the WMD?)

Or because you thought Clinton was weak on gays in the military?
 

kinghami3

Future Turbo Monkey
Jun 1, 2004
2,241
0
Ballard 4 life.
Jabuttri said:
Has america ever had a good exit strategy for any war? we ran from viet nam and in world war 2 and korea we stayed after it was over.
Is there any country that has a good exit strategy? Even in the case of an Augustinian just war, there's no good way out of that kind of situation.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
I think the thing about Murtha's announcement is the battle for hearts and minds.

I did not serve in the military, and one could say I might not understand the need for war. With that same thinking, John Murtha did serve and he has more right to speak than someone who has not fought in a war.

Much of the Iraqi War has been PR. We went in because of our belief in WMD, not an actual attack. We continued fighting because the belief without America, Iraq would return to despotic rule.

Now Murtha is changing this opinion, and possibly Americans can return as soon as possible.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,220
237
chez moi
stinkyboy said:
Has GWB given the soldiers anything? A raise? Body armor? An exit plan?
He offered the chance to be even more extra-patriotic by earning less combat pay. They of all people understand the sacrifices that need to be made during times of record profit for some private industries and gross government overspending.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Hey look the White House is using Reactor tactics...

The White House responded a statement that recognized Murtha as
"a respected veteran and politician who has a record of supporting a strong America,"
and called it
"baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic Party."
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Interesting that a fellow Republican gets it. Chuck Hagle said the following in a speech to the CFR.

"The Bush Administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them. Suggesting that to challenge or criticize policy is undermining and hurting our troops is not democracy nor what this country has stood for, for over 200 years. The Democrats have an obligation to challenge in a serious and responsible manner, offering solutions and alternatives to the Administration&#8217;s policies."
Thought I wonder if he has been reading his Teddy Roosevelt a little too closely...

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it's morally treasonable to the American public."
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,978
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
DRB said:
Interesting that a fellow Republican gets it. Chuck Hagle said the following in a speech to the CFR.



Thought I wonder if he has been reading his Teddy Roosevelt a little too closely...

Yeah. They have learned that attacking the character of a medal wining war fighting veteran doesn't work so well. Now they praise the person but paint him as baffled, confused or supporting a misinformed, illogical position.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Reactor said:
Yeah. They have learned that attacking the character of a medal wining war fighting veteran doesn't work so well. Now they praise the person but paint him as baffled, confused or supporting a misinformed, illogical position.
Can you say James Stockdale.
 

Heath Sherratt

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2004
1,875
0
In a healthy tension
Not according to the Vote just taken in the House yesterday. 403-3 voting to stay until the government in stable. Democrats are now on the record as supporting the war. It just doesn't make any sense trying to split a nation at war. It's good that someone finally had the mind to make the politicians put their money where their mouths are. To pull out now would be irresponsible. Did his title say "intelligence officer"? Explain how pulling out now would be intelligent?
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Heath Sherratt said:
Not according to the Vote just taken in the House yesterday. 403-3 voting to stay until the government in stable. Democrats are now on the record as supporting the war. It just doesn't make any sense trying to split a nation at war. It's good that someone finally had the mind to make the politicians put their money where their mouths are. To pull out now would be irresponsible. Did his title say "intelligence officer"? Explain how pulling out now would be intelligent?
Is that what they did? It was an idiotic political stunt that would have had the troops pulled out and returned immediately. There was no debate. To call it support of the President's current policy is inaccurate. It actually seems very much like a GOP plan to do anything... not really a plan as much as a blind elephant being shot in the ass with a .22.

The fact of the matter is that right now there is no exit strategy. There is no timeline of things that need to happen to get the troops home. Its rudderless right now and it seems that the policy is to leave our troops in harms way forever in Iraq.

As for John Murtha. I'm pretty sure that I would take John Murtha's intelligence, experience and knowledge over yours everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Unlike some directing the overall policy of this war, he has actually been there and done that. I'm sure though that'll they will drag him thru the mud and try to ruin his reputation. Its about par for the course.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
Heath Sherratt said:
Not according to the Vote just taken in the House yesterday. 403-3 voting to stay until the government in stable. Democrats are now on the record as supporting the war. It just doesn't make any sense trying to split a nation at war. It's good that someone finally had the mind to make the politicians put their money where their mouths are. To pull out now would be irresponsible. Did his title say "intelligence officer"? Explain how pulling out now would be intelligent?

That isn't supporting the war, or it's policies...it is called being a responsible nation. you made the damn mess, now clean it the hell up.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,287
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
DRB said:
The fact of the matter is that right now there is no exit strategy. There is no timeline of things that need to happen to get the troops home. Its rudderless right now and it seems that the policy is to leave our troops in harms way forever in Iraq.
So apparently there is an exit strategy. It will apparently be entirely decided by the military commanders in the field.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10127021/

But what will spark their decision? Reduced attacks? Operation readiness of Iraqi troops?

So I take it back there is still no plan. Where the hell is my .22?