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imagine no religion

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by $tinkle, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    humanists get snarky: Taking Atheism for a Ride Around Town
    and from across the pond last month, the uk atheist bus campaign was launched:



    so, where would our world be w/o religion?
     

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  2. johnbryanpeters

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    Humans probably would have died off a long time back due to overpopulation without religious exercises of one sort or another killing a lot of people off...
     
  3. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    so pol pot, stalin, & hitler were blindly doing the bidding of God all the while?

    mysterious indeed.


    i wonder what our monetary system would look like, and where discipline would come from, and where we would find joy in times of despair (if even joy were valued)
     
  4. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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  5. johnbryanpeters

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    Meh - the question's interesting from the point of how people view the universe, but in general what-ifs fail to interest me. It's a fact that people invent gods. Some find them useful. Not clear to me if you need gods to come up with value systems, nor is it tremendously important.

    And I'll give Dawkins a read.

    A Nazi motto was "Gott mit uns".
     
  6. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    this is the crux of thinking itself
    certainly there are reasonable value systems constructed in a godless vacuum - i just have a bitter clinging to mine.
    i like both his writing & speaking style. a good thinker he is
    a rallying cry indeed, like "tonight, we dine in hell" (or however it's written in greek)
     
  7. JohnE

    JohnE filthy rascist

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    Front Range, dude...
    Imagine...if the bus said "There is probably no Allah...

    How is eating a french fry in a Metro station un-ethical?? Loves me some french fries...err, freedom fries.
     
    #7 -   Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  8. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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  9. Fonzie18

    Fonzie18 Turbo Monkey

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    Perfect.
     
  10. johnbryanpeters

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    Perhaps, but it is more useful when applied with wisdom.
     
  11. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    against the rules.

    grace is not a humaonist concept
     
  12. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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  13. Defenestrated

    Defenestrated Turbo Monkey

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    humanism is pretty awesome as far as beliefs go. hell I would even call myself a bit of a humanist.
     
  14. X3pilot

    X3pilot Texans fan - LOL

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    In fact, I'm thinking of donating this Christmas in all of your names to The Human Fund...
     
  15. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    wtf is "commonality of the human condition"?

    who decides what's dignified? isn't this vanity-driven? it's at least feelings-based. just sayin.

    also "humanism rejects the validity of transcendental justifications" tells me you should question everything. fair enough. so your parents have just as much validity as does the flower-passing hippie on the quad, or the tract distributing jehovah's witness knocking on your door. suddenly, everybody is equal. all cultures are equal. you can have no pre-dispositions about anyone, just so long as they put forth a compelling argument (i.e., you are unable to assail someone's position with a stronger argument). reads a lot like dangerous cultish ideals to me, but maybe i'm just getting wound up.
     
  16. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    I've been without "religion" for over 20 years now and it's been very nice.

    A gal that my wife knew got pissed when she found out our daughter doesn't go to church. He said "how can you raise her without religion?" Her response was "Quite well, thanks."

    I feel much more spiritual and more in touch with the world without it. Religion is nothing more than a spiritual crutch, and maybe a reason to kill.
     
  17. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    funny how my camp derides those who claim religion is a crutch, then proclaim how important the church is in their life.

    so which is it?
     
  18. Samirol

    Samirol Turbo Monkey

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    Dangerous cultish ideals like logic and reason!

    It is saying that you shouldn't accept something just because you are told it is holy. Society decides what is dignified, moral, and ethical. I would say that a lot of our ideas of morals and ethics come from our environment.

    Commonality of the human condition is recognizing that we are all human, therefore we need to consider everyone when making a decision.

    Personally, I can sum it up like this: Community is important, religion is not. Churches provide community, but they aren't the only source of community.
     
  19. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    Some people obviously need a crutch, much like some people need Fox News to tell them what's important.

    What I find the funniest is that it's the same people. It takes effort to think for yourself.
     
  20. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    b/c i believe these are God-given, they are to be wielded; to do otherwise would be like praying over my sick daughter when medical alternatives are readily available
    i assume you respect others' claims to holy sites, traditions, & customs
    there are very many societies i believe neither of us agree with; most notably those who exploit kids in the name of their religious-based society.

    what do we "do" with them?
    so it seems you put a lot of value in charity. i do as well. what do you think the distribution of charity would be w/o religious organizations? i guess what comes to mind is food banks, catholic hospitals, women's shelters, mentoring programs for at-risk youth, etc.
     
  21. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Totally.

    Unlike a belief system that claims a single creator of everything who pays attention to you enough to love you and hold a moral compass to your actions and reward you personally for your good works. I mean that's just fact.
     
  22. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    Oregon food bank is not a religious organization, my brother helps run a womens shelter for women in AA trying to get away from abusive situations while getting clean and is in no way associated with religion, I have coached soccer at the Boys and Girls club that is also not religion based.

    It may be hard for you to grasp, but there is a lot of life without religion.

    That's like saying "How can a horse pull a cart without blinders?" My wifes horse does it just fine because it was taught without them.
     
  23. johnbryanpeters

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    I think we call them evangelicals or Catholics.
     
  24. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel There is no Justice!

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    Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
    With religion this country isn't doing so hawt...

    Or is that due to all the goths and Idol fanatics going to Vegas for a raunchy white wedding weekend????
     
  25. Stray_cat

    Stray_cat Monkey

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    Historically speaking this really doesn't happen on a large scale, with or without religion.

    Group mentality has proven time and time again to sway "the critical thinking" mind. Or as you put it, reason and logic. Years after WWII studies were done on just how such a travesty could have occurred. I won't go into too much of the details, but in lab settings psychologist were able to get people to do things that lacked logic. I.e. administering painful shocks to another human (faked by an actor). There was no pretense of religion in any of this.

    Those who think that by eliminating Religion we'll enter a new dawn of enlightenment are in for a rude awakening when they realize group mentality will still exist on a large scale. Or as an evolutionary biologist would put it Herd Mentality.

    The church has picked some piss poor battles, and really mired its image. But humanity without it is certainly capable of the same and has proven to do so in the past.
     
    #25 -   Nov 12, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  26. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    ...was founded by jesus freaks
    not hard at all; just wondering what would fill the "power vacuum" (and please don't say kidwoo)
    cute; it's much better to finance the child sex slave industry in the name of no god. are there any humanist-based charities devoted to thwarting this industry? given that there is a strong desire for this to go away by everyone concerned, is their money where their mouth is (eww!)

    point is: i think it's senseless to dismiss religion as the taproot for all that's evil, or that whatever they do can be done by areligious organizations. is the recognition of "the commonality of the human condition" sufficient to motivate humanistas to bring comfort to those in need?

    what are they waiting for?

    straycat: milgram experiment
     
  27. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    My point was my brothers shelter was not. Nor do you have to claim a religion to be a member of AA. My brother has been in the program for nearly 20 years and he quit Catholicism years before he gave up crack.
     
  28. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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  29. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Yeah you still gotta use some 'higher power' mess though.


    I asked if I could use my penis and was told I couldn't continue in the program.
     
  30. I Are Baboon

    I Are Baboon Run, Forrest, Run!

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    Meh, they are no different than any zealous religious group in trying to impose their beliefs on others.
     
  31. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    I guess. I've never been, but they let my brother in.
     
  32. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    he escaped the grip of the church easier than crack? he must not have been a big donor
     
  33. johnbryanpeters

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    Yes, there are humanist organizations fighting the kiddie whore industry. Do your homework.

    Religion's not the root of all evil (my first response was tongue in cheek), nor is it the source of all solutions.
     
  34. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    This I totally agree with.


    Write a friggin book, don't make yourself the southern billboards of the cities.
     
  35. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

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    Yeah, but it would be nice if it weren't a tag of shame in the US. It should be accepted along with any other moderate belief system. When was the last time you heard an American politician say "I'm a non-practicing catholic/jew/etc." or "nah, I'm raising my children atheist" in a press conference?
     
  36. stevew

    stevew unique white person

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    no pastor ?
     
  37. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    i imagine most politicians are far more political than religious, or that their politics is their religion.

    power is intoxicating, while true charity requires sacrifice w/o praise & recognition
     
  38. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

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    I don't think priest involved molestation was ever a worry associated with crack. Prison rape, maybe.

    Our childhood priest is sorta famous and stuff.

    <edit> The Howards are close personal friends of my family.
     
  39. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Stop prancing in the fields with a basket of flowers for a sec and at least recognize what he's saying.

    You know damn well no politician can rise to significant rank without the guise of da jeebus taking part in his life. Honest or not, it's the case.

    While I don't think parading a bus around is exactly the way to achieve a change in this, I do agree it's pretty insane that an outward godlessness eliminates your moral compass in many people's eyes.

    It's starting to sound like you're one of them from what you've expressed in this thread. It must be wierd sitting in public places with so many decidedly unreligous folks. I mean you think they might just flip out and start killing everyone at any moment? Steal your wallet? Covet your goat?
     
  40. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    so the nancy pelosis & her "pro-choice catholicism" & the mike huckabees of our country make us both ass vomit.
    fine.
    and the rejoinder to that would be that you lot find believers to be intellectually shunted
    i'm wondering aloud (dare i say "imagine" as the thread suggests?) what our society would be like w/o religion. we've already seen what a society looks like where religion is mandated (vast parts of the middle east & *stan), or outright banned (various communist experiments).

    so would you consider the possibility that extremes on either side are harmful to mankind? this is what i'm driving at.