[sanjuro]

At this point, we should consider legalizing the Mexicans who snuck across the border. I doubt it is worth the trouble and cost to ship every person who is trying to make a life here back across the border.

But on that note, I have nothing against a big wall, increased patrols, or even a bunch of rednecks on a hunting holiday along the border as well. I think there is nothing racist and everything lawful about protecting our border.

Maybe there will be a terrorist attack in Brownsville, Nogales, or San Diego. That will close it up tight.

 

[$tinkle]

Maybe there will be a terrorist attack in Brownsville, Nogales, or San Diego. That will close it up tight.

true. unfortunately, a wknd-long gun fight in the streets on the mexican side just won't cut it.

 

[LordOpie]

essentially, your white guilt can be reduced to feeling sorry for any loser in a battle b/c they were out-armed, out-witted, out-numbered, out-educated, etc.

but isn't it always this way?

I'm getting tired of any particular group whining about how they were treated.

Oh no, we gave indians diseased blankets, whaaaa, we killed them and took their land, whaaaa... get over it already.

You people aren't unique. Blacks, jews, hispanics, asians, christians... EVERY group was repressed, killed, stolen from at some point in history... whaaaa.

This is how the planet has worked forever.

I'm not saying to forget or to not learn from the past, but stop the fockin' whining already.

 

[ire]

I'm getting tired of any particular group whining about how they were treated.

Oh no, we gave indians diseased blankets, whaaaa, we killed them and took their land, whaaaa... get over it already.

You people aren't unique. Blacks, jews, hispanics, asians, christians... EVERY group was repressed, killed, stolen from at some point in history... whaaaa.

This is how the planet has worked forever.

I'm not saying to forget or to not learn from the past, but stop the fockin' whining already.

I went to High School with a lot of Indians, and this one kid left school for a year (we figured he moved or dropped out). He comes back after that year, wearing a lot of traditional Indian garb; he had gone to school for Indian kids for a year and basically what they taught him was to hate the white man. All he did was talk about all the stuff whitey had done to his people and how oppressed they were. I was happy when he dropped out, then I didn't have to listen to it anymore. I didn't oppress anyone, so quit lumping me in with people who some sh!t 150 years ago

 

[SlapheadMofo]

Frigging Indians were squatters to begin with too. What, you think you can just stroll across the Bering land-bridge and slap up pueblos and teepees all over the place? You need to pull a permit from the office of manifest destiny for that kind of ****.

 

[JRogers]

I'm getting tired of any particular group whining about how they were treated.

Oh no, we gave indians diseased blankets, whaaaa, we killed them and took their land, whaaaa... get over it already.

You people aren't unique. Blacks, jews, hispanics, asians, christians... EVERY group was repressed, killed, stolen from at some point in history... whaaaa.

This is how the planet has worked forever.

I'm not saying to forget or to not learn from the past, but stop the fockin' whining already.

Of course I'm not a fan of whining either. What's more American than working hard, moving up and making a better life for yourself? But the fact is that history matters because it affects individual lives. Your level of education is determined in large part by two things: your parents' level of education and your parents' income. Inequality is hereditary.

 

[SlapheadMofo]

Of course I'm not a fan of whining either. What's more American than working hard, moving up and making a better life for yourself? But the fact is that history matters because it affects individual lives. Your level of education is determined in large part by two things: your parents' level of education and your parents' income. Inequality is hereditary.

My folks had no money and little education, where do I get my handouts?

 

[JRogers]

back then there was a great deal more ignorance & fear, yet it happened legally. today, while there is ignorance & fear, the greater concern is the capricious, flippant, cavalier, & selfish attitude of the illegal immigrants, whose numbers are stunningly excessive.

not sure what you're saying here...is it that there are both good & bad natives (i agree), yet all europeans sought the natives' extermination (even implicitly)?

do you think the white man held their hand & taught them a whole new concept known as land ownership/claims? essentially, your white guilt can be reduced to feeling sorry for any loser in a battle b/c they were out-armed, out-witted, out-numbered, out-educated, etc.

but isn't it always this way?

What defines "excessive"? What would be an acceptable number of immigrants for you? What about immigrant attitudes are more selfish than more or less everyone else in America who is so afraid that their own lives will be changed that they want to throw out millions of people who are just trying to get by?

I am not saying that all Europeans sought the extermination of native populations. What I am saying is that there was fighting between Indian groups before Europeans showed up. It wasn't all warm and fuzzy. But when they did come, they brought with them a new level of brutality that had not been experienced before. Things went okay for a while, but pressures of expansion forced conflict and the attitude of superiority and entitlement that Europeans generally had didn't help.

I don't have much "white guilt." I don't personally identify with the people who did these things, but I find it awfully cold that I shouldn't feel sorry for a group of people who were systematically treated pretty poorly (whoever they are) for a long period of time and still today feel the effects of previous injustices. Just because people have been defeated for all those reasons throughout history doesn't mean that it's a good thing or something we shouldn't care about or consider relevant. Maybe there's a reason why, of major race groups, blacks and native americans have the highest rates of poverty. Maybe there's a reason why many of the countries with the greatest economic, social and governmental problems are those which had the most damaging colonial histories. You don't have to feel guilty, but, at the least, you should consider whether the history of those groups is something that you should shrug your shoulders at. You don't have to feel guilty to take someone else's life seriously. You can say that I suffer from white guilt, but it seems to me that you might be so afraid of it that you decide to close yourself off from even taking seriously the history that might implicate you.

 

[JRogers]

My folks had no money and little education, where do I get my handouts?

Typical response: "Well, I pulled myself up and America is a free country, so why can't everyone else do it?" There are many reasons (one of which is that your experience isn't the same as everyone else's...), but the fact is that IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

[Silver]

My folks had no money and little education, where do I get my handouts?

You're not getting a stimulus check this year?

 

[$tinkle]

What would be an acceptable number of immigrants for you?

whatever the law allows. that's what it's all about for me.

What about immigrant attitudes are more selfish than more or less everyone else in America who is so afraid that their own lives will be changed that they want to throw out millions of people who are just trying to get by?

if as you say they are "trying to get by", then why is it so much surplus cash is sent home or otherwise used to prop up the various underground economies?

and why do you not defend those legal immigrants whose jobs are being taken away by illegal immigrants?

odd.

What I am saying is that there was fighting between Indian groups before Europeans showed up. It wasn't all warm and fuzzy. But when they did come, they brought with them a new level of brutality that had not been experienced before.

pure rubbish.

Maybe there's a reason why, of major race groups, blacks and native americans have the highest rates of poverty.

do i really need to show you how blacks in the u.s. do as compared to blacks in their motherland?

Maybe there's a reason why many of the countries with the greatest economic, social and governmental problems are those which had the most damaging colonial histories.

not really a valid comparison, as there are almost no african countries which haven't been colonialized to some extent by the dutch, british, u.s., or french. those which haven't aren't countries which i'd laud as crown jewels of achievement in any of your listed criteria

You don't have to feel guilty, but, at the least, you should consider whether the history of those groups is something that you should shrug your shoulders at. You don't have to feel guilty to take someone else's life seriously.

not holding your position doesn't mean i'm shrugging my shoulders. in fact, i have more faith in them than you & refuse to lower my standards for them or anybody else. if indeed we're by and large all cut from the same cloth, then accomplishments should not be met with unexpected amazement, but with pride in humanity.

as far as all stripes of immigrants go, i don't believe we should excuse cheaters, especially when making their first impression.

Typical response: "Well, I pulled myself up and America is a free country, so why can't everyone else do it?" There are many reasons (one of which is that your experience isn't the same as everyone else's...), but the fact is that IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

oh, i'm w/ shmf too: i was raised below the poverty line by a disabled, uneducated single parent. but i guess since i'm white, prosperity was mine to lose

 

[SlapheadMofo]

Typical response: "Well, I pulled myself up and America is a free country, so why can't everyone else do it?" There are many reasons (one of which is that your experience isn't the same as everyone else's...), but the fact is that IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Of course not - it's as impossible to remove blind ****house luck from the equation as it is to erase self defeating behaviors. Those factors play at least as much a part as do historical factors. And since we can't change history or luck, that leaves just behavior to work with I guess.

 

[SlapheadMofo]

You're not getting a stimulus check this year?

Oh, yeah.

 

[$tinkle]

You're not getting a stimulus check this year?

good point.

it's a rebate for people who have ALREADY PAID THEIR FCUKING TAXES!!!!

just sayin'...

 

[MikeD]

At this point, we should consider legalizing the Mexicans who snuck across the border. I doubt it is worth the trouble and cost to ship every person who is trying to make a life here back across the border.

No way in hell. Never nohow.

What we SHOULD do is make a controlled, legal pathway for temporary migrant labor. Then we should make it financially devastating for an employer to use illegal labor. Absolutely positively devastating. Mega fines, perhaps asset forfeiture. Corollary: we have a biometric system whereby immigrants can prove their identities and status to employers with the simple swipe of a card in a box you can lease from the government should you participate in the guest worker program.

Now you've dried up the pool for most employment of illegal labor. No jobs for new illegals, none for those already here.

Now require that candidates for guest worker status present themselves to a US consulate in their OWN country of origin. Viola...the "honest" immigrants deport themselves and re-enter with legal status. Meanwhile, ANY illegal coming into contact with ANY law enforcement is deported immediately and without recourse, with their biometrics put on file to prevent them from ever, ever, ever gaining guest worker status.

Best thing about it is that you're ending the disgusting practice of virtual slave labor in this country. You have established wages and OSHA standard working conditions, and whatever healthcare policies/requirements are necessary for the program.

 

[LordOpie]

...

I like it, plus, illegals who are here only to make a living that they send back home to support their family can actually go home to visit their family.

 

[Silver]

No way in hell. Never nohow.

What we SHOULD do is make a controlled, legal pathway for temporary migrant labor. Then we should make it financially devastating for an employer to use illegal labor. Absolutely positively devastating. Mega fines, perhaps asset forfeiture. Corollary: we have a biometric system whereby immigrants can prove their identities and status to employers with the simple swipe of a card in a box you can lease from the government should you participate in the guest worker program.

Now you've dried up the pool for most employment of illegal labor. No jobs for new illegals, none for those already here.

Now require that candidates for guest worker status present themselves to a US consulate in their OWN country of origin. Viola...the "honest" immigrants deport themselves and re-enter with legal status. Meanwhile, ANY illegal coming into contact with ANY law enforcement is deported immediately and without recourse, with their biometrics put on file to prevent them from ever, ever, ever gaining guest worker status.

Best thing about it is that you're ending the disgusting practice of virtual slave labor in this country. You have established wages and OSHA standard working conditions, and whatever healthcare policies/requirements are necessary for the program.

You still have to end birthright citizenship, but otherwise I'm onboard...

 

[jimmydean]

What about the dude selling fake SSN's? He gets about $30 a pop! Now HE will have to get a "real" job too, and that can be tough in todays economy.

 

[jimmydean]

You still have to end birthright citizenship, but otherwise I'm onboard...

And back date it to cover this jackass:

well i was born in winchester, ma...

 

[MikeD]

You still have to end birthright citizenship, but otherwise I'm onboard...

Forgot that detail...hell yeah...

 

[Westy]

You still have to end birthright citizenship, but otherwise I'm onboard...

Is Silver rolling in his e-grave?