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Immigration Reform

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
In another thread DT was relating his struggles to get a work visa to take a job in Australia in the 90's and how the idiots in Australian immigration wouldn't let him come because of some stupid law designed to protect Australian jobs. It got me thinking (there's a first:D ), we are forever hearing these days about globalisation and the world economy so it would seem to me that the free movement of labour would be an essential part of that global economy. instead what we see are all these antiquated laws and bone-headed protectionism misplaced as patriotism.

So here's what I propose- the citizen of any country in the OECD should be able to move to any other country in the OECD for the purposes of employment without hindrance from immigration. If the immigration depts of the various countries want to stop a person entering the onus should be on the immigration dept to show that that person is in some way undesirable instead of the present sysytem where the onus is the individual and the company doing the hiring. Companies should be able to pick and choose the best people for the job without regard to country of origin. I may place the waiver though that a concrete job offer must be on the table.

Obviously there would be some natural factors that will prevent people from taking advantage of this system- language, family committments etc but for many people, especially those operating in the more professional fields it would be a godsend and for companies it would provide flexibility previous unheard of.

Now I'm sure some of you will say that people can already work in other countries which is true- I'm saying that the system has to be made much much simpler and more attractive. The reason many companies are reluctant to hire from abroad is all the red tape that is involved. I say throw the red tape out. If DT is the best man for the job he is the best man for the job whether he is Australian, American or Martian (the 3rd one I think:D ). The politicians like to talk a good game on globalisation, it's about time they started taking concrete measures to bring it about.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
A couple years ago I was thinking about moving to Whyalla, SA (about 500km from Adelaide) and looked into a work visa. Maybe it was my profession (electrical engineer/project manager) or maybe it was the location, rual South Australia, or both... but I didn't seem to have a problem with Oz Immagration if I was willing to go.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by N8
A couple years ago I was thinking about moving to Whyalla, SA (about 500km from Adelaide) and looked into a work visa. Maybe it was my profession (electrical engineer/project manager) or maybe it was the location, rual South Australia, or both... but I didn't seem to have a problem with Oz Immagration if I was willing to go.
That's the way it should be too. All too often though it seems there are un-necessary hassles.
BTW I think you might the right choice. Whyalla???? WTF:D :D
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by valve bouncer
BTW I think you might the right choice. Whyalla???? WTF:D :D


..well................................. why Whyalla you ask...???


...no comment....


..heh heh...



;)
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
I know that North America needs low skilled or non skilled labor much more than we need skilled labor. No one wants to work the sod farms anymore but everyone wants a cube in an office tower.

If your dreams come true do you think you would be happy competing for employment against recent immigrants from India, Shri Lanka or China? The wages would no longer be that attractive but they would on par with the global scale - low.

If the labor market were to move freely around the world we would all find ourselves in the immigrant / migrant labor pool. This is not something I am interested in - of course I have no desire to work outside the US.
 

D_D

Monkey
Dec 16, 2001
392
0
UK
I am sure I could compete with immigrants as the wage they could work for wouldn't be much lower than mine.

They may be able to work for a lot less in their home country where the average house price isn't 20 times their yearly wage and food is a lot cheaper. Once they are in this country there cost of living increases to a similar level to mine.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Originally posted by D_D
I am sure I could compete with immigrants as the wage they could work for wouldn't be much lower than mine.

They may be able to work for a lot less in their home country where the average house price isn't 20 times their yearly wage and food is a lot cheaper. Once they are in this country there cost of living increases to a similar level to mine.
True - I was trying to reply within the context of the original post. The fact is that it will never happen - it's transportation and technological advances that are leading to a global economy. Much more efficient to ship goods rather than people.

EDIT: India is a prime example - they offer IT services at a fraction of what the same services would cost stateside.

As I have said the US had a very temporary shortage of professional labor in the late 90s but... it certainly is not the case now.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by Serial Midget
I know that North America needs low skilled or non skilled labor much more than we need skilled labor. No one wants to work the sod farms anymore but everyone wants a cube in an office tower.

If your dreams come true do you think you would be happy competing for employment against recent immigrants from India, Shri Lanka or China? The wages would no longer be that attractive but they would on par with the global scale - low.

If the labor market were to move freely around the world we would all find ourselves in the immigrant / migrant labor pool. This is not something I am interested in - of course I have no desire to work outside the US.
SM, in my original post I did make the stipulation that my plan would only apply to people from OECD countries, i.e- the other rich countries so as to prevent what you talk about.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Originally posted by valve bouncer
SM, in my original post I did make the stipulation that my plan would only apply to people from OECD countries, i.e- the other rich countries so as to prevent what you talk about.
But we are the richest country in the world, peerless in fact... :eek: You are right though, us rich countries should stick together. Except France, we should bomb France. :monkey:
 

the law

Monkey
Jun 25, 2002
267
0
where its at
Just FYI-
it is almost impossible for Americans to work in Australia legally while studying there. The reason is simple, the U.S. makes it really difficult for others to work here. On the other hand, I had no problem working there because Europe's laws are less restrictive in that context. As such, Australia's labor laws are also more lax for Europeans than Americans.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by the law
Just FYI-
it is almost impossible for Americans to work in Australia legally while studying there. The reason is simple, the U.S. makes it really difficult for others to work here. On the other hand, I had no problem working there because Europe's laws are less restrictive in that context. As such, Australia's labor laws are also more lax for Europeans than Americans.
Good point- America's bone headedness on this issue often makes it hard for Americans when they want to work in other countries. Quid pro quo I'm afraid which I actually find a stupid attitude as it's counter-productive.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Originally posted by valve bouncer
Good point- America's bone headedness on this issue often makes it hard for Americans when they want to work in other countries. Quid pro quo I'm afraid which I actually find a stupid attitude as it's counter-productive.
What's so boneheaded about keeping you out? We don't need no more complainers... too many demos as it is. :D

EDIT: I know what America can do for you but I am not clear on what you can do for America? How can we be certain that you'll be a benefit to society? Paul Hogan set the bar pretty high... :p

In the words of Jackson Brown: Nobody rides for free and nobody hands you any guarantees.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by Serial Midget
What's so boneheaded about keeping you out? We don't need no more complainers... too many demos as it is. :D
LOL@ SM...what was it that Groucho Marx said about any club that would have him as a member? Actually the Japanese have just granted me permanent residency in a surprisingly painless procedure. If they only knew:D :D Next stop- Japanese citizenship (just gotta check when HELL IS DUE TO FREEZE OVER NEXT):D :rolleyes: ;)
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
Originally posted by Serial Midget

EDIT: I know what America can do for you but I am not clear on what you can do for America?
You joking? I would love to spend a year working in any of the following cities:

Vancouver
Sidney
Cape Town
Chamonix
Auckland

Working abroad for a year is pretty much a cultural tradition in Australia... I think it's unfortunate that we don't encourage our population to get similar international experience.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by ohio


Working abroad for a year is pretty much a cultural tradition in Australia... I think it's unfortunate that we don't encourage our population to get similar international experience.
Who needs other countries when ya live in America:rolleyes: sheesh:D

I agree. Businesses should trade people like baseball cards for a few months at a time.
 

slein

Monkey
Jul 21, 2002
331
0
CANADA
i tried to get a job in the states - got an evil engineering degree - but, couldn't get hired because all the work visas for that year had been handed. seemed like a lame excuse to me.

that was until i met POT. now, i just wanna stay in CANADA.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
Originally posted by ohio
Working abroad for a year is pretty much a cultural tradition in Australia... I think it's unfortunate that we don't encourage our population to get similar international experience.
I was happy just going to Cancun for spring break, I prefer to experience foreign culture through beer goggles. :cool:
 

partsbara

Turbo Monkey
Nov 16, 2001
3,996
0
getting Xtreme !
Originally posted by ohio
You joking? I would love to spend a year working in any of the following cities:

Vancouver
Sidney
Cape Town
Chamonix
Auckland

Working abroad for a year is pretty much a cultural tradition in Australia... I think it's unfortunate that we don't encourage our population to get similar international experience.
agreed ohio... travellng and working was the best thing that i have EVER done... visas and the rest of the crap are a hassle, but in the scheme of things they are worth every frustrating minute...

just for the record ohio, it s sydney :)... plus.. flag it and go to melbourne

oh, and vb - it makes me laugh... everytime i visit japan (last year for the visa run and later for the snowboardibg hol) i get hassled by the jap immigration for my alien card... i pocketed the bastid as a good souvineer... i just tell them that i handed and back at kansai and they give me this puzzled look... in turn i give them an equally puzzled 'i m a dumb aussie' look and they let me go :)

partsbara (with 2 degrees:)) :devil:
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by partsbara
agreed ohio... travellng and working was the best thing that i have EVER done... visas and the rest of the crap are a hassle, but in the scheme of things they are worth every frustrating minute...

just for the record ohio, it s sydney :)... plus.. flag it and go to melbourne

oh, and vb - it makes me laugh... everytime i visit japan (last year for the visa run and later for the snowboardibg hol) i get hassled by the jap immigration for my alien card... i pocketed the bastid as a good souvineer... i just tell them that i handed and back at kansai and they give me this puzzled look... in turn i give them an equally puzzled 'i m a dumb aussie' look and they let me go :)

partsbara (with 2 degrees:)) :devil:
F*cken gaijin cards, why are foreigners the only ones who have to carry an identity card. Just another example of the racist mentality of the Japanese I suppose. Having said that I've never had any problems with immigration here.
Anyway good souvenir holmes, be nice to show the grandkids that you were a registered alien:D :D
 

partsbara

Turbo Monkey
Nov 16, 2001
3,996
0
getting Xtreme !
Originally posted by N8
I lived and worked in Japan for about 10 months... no visa needed...













Just my US military ID..... :D
no offense n8, but the term 'living' doesn t really apply to 99% of the military crew i see outside of the US... i probabally use the term 'residing'... i hope you were the exception to the rule and shopped at local supermarkets, ate out at local resturants and tried to stay away as much as possible from the PX/BX and commisary.... don t get me wrong, the BX etc are very useful, but it isn really a cultural experience...

there is nothing like being out of your comfort zone, i used to love going food shopping in japan because it was like a game... guesswork and a little luck...

i am continually amazed (here in germany) when i see folks eating at burger king and buying 'bud' or a similar sh1tty beer (fosters included)... i mean for gods sake, go and get a doner kebab, or bratwurst and a case of hefewiezen $#!@%%&(*

kinda reminds me of the sad soul that i saw in korea last year... the clown walks into burger king, slams both of his hands down on the counter and yells, 'smell that american food!'... what an ambassador :rolleyes:
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by partsbara
no offense n8, but the term 'living' doesn t really apply to 99% of the military crew i see outside of the US... i probabally use the term 'residing'... i hope you were the exception to the rule and shopped at local supermarkets, ate out at local resturants and tried to stay away as much as possible from the PX/BX and commisary.... don t get me wrong, the BX etc are very useful, but it isn really a cultural experience...

there is nothing like being out of your comfort zone, i used to love going food shopping in japan because it was like a game... guesswork and a little luck...

i am continually amazed (here in germany) when i see folks eating at burger king and buying 'bud' or a similar sh1tty beer (fosters included)... i mean for gods sake, go and get a doner kebab, or bratwurst and a case of hefewiezen $#!@%%&(*

kinda reminds me of the sad soul that i saw in korea last year... the clown walks into burger king, slams both of his hands down on the counter and yells, 'smell that american food!'... what an ambassador :rolleyes:
Well said fruit bat, see ya not a total waste of oxygen after all. The army gives these crew the chance for a decent experience but unfortunately most of them are too blinkered to be able to take advantage of it. It's no coincidence that the ones who do take advantage of the oppurtunity are the ones worth getting to know.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by valve bouncer
Well said fruit bat, see ya not a total waste of oxygen after all. The army gives these crew the chance for a decent experience but unfortunately most of them are too blinkered to be able to take advantage of it. It's no coincidence that the ones who do take advantage of the oppurtunity are the ones worth getting to know.
Hey!:angry:

I take advantage of the opportunity. but that doesnt mean im worth getting to know:mad:

Stop stereotyping me.:p
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by BurlySurly
Hey!:angry:

I take advantage of the opportunity. but that doesnt mean im worth getting to know:mad:

Stop stereotyping me.:p
Well obviously you're the exception to the rule;) Seriously though BS, did the Marines give you a chance to go overseas?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Yep,

Ive been to Japan, Thailand, Singapore and a few other* places.
Set to head to your homeland in August actually. I hope the Aussie girls are as nice at home as they are when the visit Hawaii. Seriously.
 

Ranger

Swift, Silent, Deadly!
Aug 16, 2001
180
0
Y'all can't see me...
Servus!

Originally posted by partsbara
...i mean for gods sake, go and get a doner kebab, or bratwurst and a case of hefewiezen $#!@%%&(*
Word.

...kinda reminds me of the sad soul that i saw in korea last year... the clown walks into burger king, slams both of his hands down on the counter and yells, 'smell that american food!'... what an ambassador :rolleyes:
What a goof.... :rolleyes:

<rant>

People ask me all the time when I plan on moving back to the U.S. - when I tell 'em "not anytime soon" they're shocked that there is an American in their midst that doesn't pine every waking moment for the "good ol U.S. of A" I get sick and tired of the exchange colleagues coming here for a year and trying to gain sympathy from me regarding the cultural differences - I mean, what the hell did you expect? I have actually heard Army spouses complaining at great legnth about how the German employees of a German business in Germany don't speak textbook-perfect English or accept dollars.

Folks - you are in a different country. If you don't like places that aren't like your hometown, DON'T FREAKING LEAVE!!!! If you are here because the Guvmint sent you here - either learn to live with the culture or STAY ON POST!! Be an ambassador, not an assclown!

</rant>

Edited kuz Ah kant spel...
 

partsbara

Turbo Monkey
Nov 16, 2001
3,996
0
getting Xtreme !
Originally posted by Ranger
Servus!



Word.



What a goof.... :rolleyes:

<rant>

People ask me all the time when I plan on moving back to the U.S. - when I tell 'em "not anytime soon" they're shocked that there is an American in their midst that doesn't pine every waking moment for the "good ol U.S. of A" I get sick and tired of the exchange colleagues coming here for a year and trying to gain sympathy from me regarding the cultural differences - I mean, what the hell did you expect? I have actually heard Army spouses complaining at great legnth about how the German employees of a German business in Germany don't speak textbook-perfect English or accept dollars.

Folks - you are in a different country. If you don't like places that aren't like your hometown, DON'T FREAKING LEAVE!!!! If you are here because the Guvmint sent you here - either learn to live with the culture or STAY ON POST!! Be an ambassador, not an assclown!

</rant>

Edited kuz Ah kant spel...
agreed ranger.... where are you anyway ? germany ?

i m in enkenback (just outside of k -town)

partsbara