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Index it for inflation and I'm on board...

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,514
15,722
Portland, OR
So, and I ask this in all seriousness, do you agree that the current system is broken? And if so, what solution would you propose?
Can we roll back the GWB years? That would be a HUGE start in the right direction. If we could un-fvck Iraq, that would also be good.

I am willing to pay more in taxes as long as what I pay is comparable to what someone north of $250k would also pay.

I work in Healthcare and you want to talk about a busted system? Take a look at this.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Not to add to the dogpile on jet, but dante has some very good reads on economic issues, I've learned a ton just reading his posts, and while I know most lean towards the liberal side, I lean towards the conservative, but those lables don't mean nearly what they used to so let's say I'm comfortable opening my mind to some other thoughts.

The proposed tax on the wealthy is nothing more than a smart, very smart political move on the Prez's part. Appeal to the middle class to make those stinking millionaires pay more (and he has one agreeing with him) and watch the Reublicans do exactly what they did, open their cakeholes without thinking. Make me a bet this won;t come back in a few months after it fails (and it will) about hoe the republicans in Congress protect the rich. (which they do, all but 2 Senators are multi millionaires).

Don't confuse standing up for the middle class (which NO politician is doing) with political strategy.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Not to add to the dogpile on jet, but dante has some very good reads on economic issues, I've learned a ton just reading his posts, and while I know most lean towards the liberal side, I lean towards the conservative, but those lables don't mean nearly what they used to so let's say I'm comfortable opening my mind to some other thoughts.

The proposed tax on the wealthy is nothing more than a smart, very smart political move on the Prez's part. Appeal to the middle class to make those stinking millionaires pay more (and he has one agreeing with him) and watch the Reublicans do exactly what they did, open their cakeholes without thinking. Make me a bet this won;t come back in a few months after it fails (and it will) about hoe the republicans in Congress protect the rich. (which they do, all but 2 Senators are multi millionaires).

Don't confuse standing up for the middle class (which NO politician is doing) with political strategy.
This 100%. What's interesting is that most of the "moderates" on here either used to be Republicans, or would have agreed with Republican fiscal theory in the mid 1990s. Those were the days of cutting government waste, (somewhat) reasonable cuts to programs like welfare, trimming back our military and allowing the additional revenue generated by the Clinton tax increases in 1993 to close the budget deficit.

But yes, it will fail due to Republican obstructionism, and Obama/the Democrats will have a message on which 64% of Americans agree with them over Republicans.

(thanks btw! :thumb:)
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,023
7,928
Colorado
I knew I shouldn't have posted in this thread! :rofl:
Dude, you just took my whipping boy role. That being said, when I was in that higher tax rate group I had the same opinions as you. When I stepped back to look at it when no longer in that range, it's pretty clear that we (anyone making less than $1mm/year ) see no benefit from lower taxes.

The only smaller government that will actually make a difference would be bringing all military home and walking away from foreign conflicts and support. THAT will make a serious dent in or spending. Cutting SS and such only has us running out on our promises internally, while throwing money outwards.
 
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X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
And for what it's worth (about $30K a year) I was military for 24 years. Enjoy my retiree pay just for waking up now. Even the NY Times says I'm on the "new" welfare program. lol, f 'em. Please, increase taxes so I can keep getting my check!

As I told Silver one time, I didn't join the military to keep anybody free, I joined cause I thought I could be a legal paid assassin.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
42,359
19,886
Riding past the morgue.
I'm sad I actually had stuff to do today. As little as it happens it always seems to occur on great conversation days. No one stays a righty here long, they either convert or are devoured. (with the possible exception of $tinkle.)
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
And for what it's worth (about $30K a year) I was military for 24 years. Enjoy my retiree pay just for waking up now. Even the NY Times says I'm on the "new" welfare program. lol, f 'em. Please, increase taxes so I can keep getting my check!

As I told Silver one time, I didn't join the military to keep anybody free, I joined cause I thought I could be a legal paid assassin.
Oh yeah, they're coming for you. You remember the bankers pushing the whole "contracts are sacred" when it comes to a non-recourse loan on a house they didn't bother doing any underwriting on? They don't consider your retiree benefits to be sacred. They'll have GFF at a Wal-Mart greeting people until he bleeds out, and then they'll send his family a bill for every unit of blood Wal-Clinic's assistant licensed junior nurse associate tried to put into him.

Apparently if you're a teacher, you don't deserve to be anything but homeless. God forbid you should make any sort of decent living. Cops and firefighters will be next, and then it's retired military.

You're dealing with people who literally will not stop until they have EVERYTHING.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
22,227
9,521
Transylvania 90210
Flat tax is teh suck. It is bait to sucker in those who are mesmerized by the simplicity.

I''m interested in hearing more on the 9/9/9 plan. I do not want it, but would like to see the dog and pony show.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
22,227
9,521
Transylvania 90210
Wild little article.

Raising taxes will put more money in government control. Since they are a service (vs. product) entity, the money will either go to pay higher wages for the existing employees, or allow more hiring of new employees. Either way, the tax base gets some expansion, though I'd like to see it go to new jobs.

The good thing about the government being in control of funds is that the government spends the money, keeping it circulating. Individuals have an option to put cash in savings and keep it from circulating, which they tend to do when they are concerned about both investment markets and real estate.

...not that I'm thrilled about paying more taxes.
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
Not to add to the dogpile on jet, but dante has some very good reads on economic issues, I've learned a ton just reading his posts, and while I know most lean towards the liberal side, I lean towards the conservative, but those lables don't mean nearly what they used to so let's say I'm comfortable opening my mind to some other thoughts.

The proposed tax on the wealthy is nothing more than a smart, very smart political move on the Prez's part. Appeal to the middle class to make those stinking millionaires pay more (and he has one agreeing with him) and watch the Reublicans do exactly what they did, open their cakeholes without thinking. Make me a bet this won;t come back in a few months after it fails (and it will) about hoe the republicans in Congress protect the rich. (which they do, all but 2 Senators are multi millionaires).

Don't confuse standing up for the middle class (which NO politician is doing) with political strategy.
I had given up on thinking that anyone could ever change anyone else's mind in this day in age. Props to you for keeping an open mind.

As for the political posturing, good policy can be good politics. This president would readily accept flawed policy to make thing happen. The irony is that the Republicans have left him with no other choice.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Or how about this a-hole..........I'd love to "only" make $400k a year.............
If Romney gets the nomination, and the Democrats are too stupid to put together the most obvious attack ad in the world, they deserve to lose and Satan can complete his plan and wreak chaos on the planet for 4-8 years, as far as I'm concerned:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/romney-im-also-unemployed/
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/aug/20/romney-home-in-la-jolla-to-grow/
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,514
15,722
Portland, OR

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Me too...coming up on 22 years personally in uniform next month. You owe me bitches...so I am entitled to some righteous indignation. Someone get me a beer.
Owe you??? You get some cushy job, a fat pension, and an overpaid salary and you expect us to owe you? More like you owe us taxpayers, BIG TIME, and it's time that you stop ripping us off to the tune of billions of dollars per year. Your health care (funded by the US taxpayer) is far better than what the ordinary McDonalds worker gets, and you get to retire after 20 years. Seriously? Talk about sucking the American taxpayer dry, you guys have been scamming us for years now and it's time that you give something back. Enough with the overpaid salaries, enough with the overly generous health care plans, I mean, hell, what private sector job actually pays for HOUSING!??!? It's time that you start contributing to American society and stop raping us taxpayers blind. We're Taxed Enough Already!!

/teabagger nonsense, paraphrased from their normal rant about public employees
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Dante's paraphrased rant could be an awesome recruiting speech! Gawddam right, that's what I'm talking about! Glad I served! Woooooohooooo.

Seriously, you all have heard me before, my retired healthcare with Tricare should be available to anyone.

$460 a year for family, $12 doctor co-pays, $9 prescription if I'm too lazy to go to the base pharmacy and get scrips for nothing.

But our dental sucks, so there is that.
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
13,562
2,208
Front Range, dude...
Owe you??? You get some cushy job, a fat pension, and an overpaid salary and you expect us to owe you? More like you owe us taxpayers, BIG TIME, and it's time that you stop ripping us off to the tune of billions of dollars per year. Your health care (funded by the US taxpayer) is far better than what the ordinary McDonalds worker gets, and you get to retire after 20 years. Seriously? Talk about sucking the American taxpayer dry, you guys have been scamming us for years now and it's time that you give something back. Enough with the overpaid salaries, enough with the overly generous health care plans, I mean, hell, what private sector job actually pays for HOUSING!??!? It's time that you start contributing to American society and stop raping us taxpayers blind. We're Taxed Enough Already!!

/teabagger nonsense, paraphrased from their normal rant about public employees
Wow...I WAS kidding aound, btw. Sarcasm font was on and all...but screw you Dante, and the horse you rode in on. Overpaid Right. Thats why my wife had to go on WIC for both our kids. Ripping off taxpayers? Yeah right. I personally rip off taxpayers every day. Try the contractors hired by the Pentagon, and the lack of oversight afforded by lowest bidder contracts. Overly generous health care plans? Are you expected to willingly go into harms way in the course of your job? Are you deployed and away from your family in austere, hostile environments for months and years at at time? My daughter is 5, and I have been away for 3 of her birthdays and Xmases. Time that I start contributing to society? Eat a dick. What have YOU done to make this country a better place? What have YOU doen for anyone other than yourself? Fat pension my ass...thats why we struggle to find work after retirement and end up bagging groceries at the Commisary for tips. I could go on and on...I certainly hope you were kidding around and trying to be funny, and if you were I retract my comments, but if you were anywhere near serious, go **** yourself. :rant::rant::rant:
 

Beef Supreme

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2010
1,434
73
Hiding from the stupid
Wow...I WAS kidding aound, btw. Sarcasm font was on and all...but screw you Dante, and the horse you rode in on. Overpaid Right. Thats why my wife had to go on WIC for both our kids. Ripping off taxpayers? Yeah right. I personally rip off taxpayers every day. Try the contractors hired by the Pentagon, and the lack of oversight afforded by lowest bidder contracts. Overly generous health care plans? Are you expected to willingly go into harms way in the course of your job? Are you deployed and away from your family in austere, hostile environments for months and years at at time? My daughter is 5, and I have been away for 3 of her birthdays and Xmases. Time that I start contributing to society? Eat a dick. What have YOU done to make this country a better place? What have YOU doen for anyone other than yourself? Fat pension my ass...thats why we struggle to find work after retirement and end up bagging groceries at the Commisary for tips. I could go on and on...I certainly hope you were kidding around and trying to be funny, and if you were I retract my comments, but if you were anywhere near serious, go **** yourself. :rant::rant::rant:
I know Dante meant it as an analogy but I fear it is more of a a preview. Unions are a more natural target as they tend to vote Democrat but how long do you think it will be before the anti government types turn on military personnel? It will be just another thing the most selfish amongst us don't want to pay for. Hell, they already don't want to pay for 9/11 responders.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Wow...I WAS kidding aound, btw. Sarcasm font was on and all...but...
You might want to get that sarcasm font calibrated, appears it doesn't convert well between XP and Win7. Think "school teacher" instead of "you", and change "for housing" to "for summers off". Now read it again.



Sorry for causing your blood pressure to spike to 300/250.
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
13,562
2,208
Front Range, dude...
...sending sarcasm font-ometer out in the morning. Must need a Euro conversion. Sorry Dante...my apolgies for being overly sensitive. Germany is also running low on Vagasil...
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Yeah, still sorry I touched a nerve. Still think most government-paid employees (including the military, teachers, social workers, etc) are vastly underpaid, and no one should have to worry about their familygoing hungry while he/she is off fighting our wars...