[samIam]

From- mountainbike
http://www.mountainbike.com/mountainbikecom/bikes-gear/2013-mountain-bike-gear-news-and-rumors?page=0,0
Shimano: New Standards, New Groups and New SLX



For 2013, Shimano has developed a new "direct-mount" rear derailleur hanger standard for its Shadow rear derailleurs. This hanger eliminates the short mounting link that contains the mounting bolt on existing Shadow and Shadow+ rear derailleurs. It is longer and angled further backward than a traditional hanger, and the frame makers I spoke to are very excited about this development for a couple of reasons. For starters, it moves the rear derailleur away from the rear axle for easier wheel installation and removal. It also stiffens the rear derailleur assembly for better shifting and less chain drops. It's user friendly, too: The new crop of derailleurs reportedly will be cross-compatible with a traditional hanger and the new direct-mount standard.



Perhaps even more exciting (especially for gravity riders) Shimano’s Saint group gets redesigned with a racier look and a host of new features. The component set is now built around a dedicated single-ring setup with a jump to 10 speeds in the rear. The brakes have been completely redesigned, too. While they still use four pistons, those pistons are now ceramic just like in XTR. Documents we’ve seen indicate the rotors will use “ICE Technologies,” which likely means they will have a three-layer design like XTR based around an aluminum core with steel braking surfaces for better heat management. The brakes also will use the finned brake pads introduced on XTR Trail brakes this year.



Saint’s rear derailleur reportedly will sport a tough stainless-steel pulley cage (it's only offered in short cage) and feature the Shadow+ friction damper. Like current Saint rear derailleurs, the new model will have a converter that accommodates both wide-ratio freeride cassettes (up to 11-36) and close-ratio downhill cassettes. The shifter, we’re told, incorporates Shimano's 2-way release system (riders can push or pull on the cable-release trigger), offer multi-gear shifts (releasing two cogs with one throw of the lever) and can be linked to a Saint brake lever with Shimano’s ISpec clamp.



The hubs remain relatively unchanged, however Shimano will offer them in a 142x12 option. There is also a new flat pedal in the works, but no Saint wheels.

 

[worship_mud]

welcome to three days ago!

 

[samIam]

welcome to three days ago!

Oops, I need to hone my search skills.

 

[staike]

Saint also gets a little brother in 2013. Called Zee, the new group is a slightly lower-cost version of the flagship gravity set—just like XT is to XTR for trail and cross-country riders. The 10-speed group will be offered only with a single front chainring and features a Shadow+ rear derailleur with mode converter, a two-way release shifter and four-piston brakes with Servo-Wave levers and radiator pads. The rear hubs come in several options spanning the range of thru-axle standards. Oh, there's also a new mid-range, caged-SPD pedal on the way.

 

[dropmachine]

Neat changes and all that, but ya know what the really good thing about the new saint group is?

All those changes will send muppets that blame the tech on their lack of speed to pick up the new stuff, leaving the rest to grab the older Saint stuff at huge discounts, knowing there isn't really a damn thing holding anyone back on the old group. Its AWESOME.


Now thats a run on sentence!

 

[slyfink]

Saint also gets a little brother in 2013. Called Zee,

didn't they already try this and call it Hone? I'm still rocking my Hone cranks, 4 years later.

 

[dropmachine]

I still say Hone cranks are one of the best products ever made. Still got mine too.

 

[captainspauldin]

Nice, looks like sram is getting "shadow+"esque thing for their x9/x0 rear derailleurs also(On the 2nd page)

 

[Downhillbiker23]

It's not even 2012 and 2013 info is already. Someone has a crystal ball

 

[slyfink]

considering it took my until today to receive my 2012 brakes I ordered back in June... I'd take 2013 with a grain of salt.

 

[IH8Rice]

It's not even 2012 and 2013 info is already. Someone has a crystal ball

its nothing new. in any industry

considering it took my until today to receive my 2012 brakes I ordered back in June... I'd take 2013 with a grain of salt.

2012's have been available from multiple mfg's for several months. sram, fox, shimano....
where did you order from??

 

[Steve M]

Neat changes and all that, but ya know what the really good thing about the new saint group is?

All those changes will send muppets that blame the tech on their lack of speed to pick up the new stuff, leaving the rest to grab the older Saint stuff at huge discounts, knowing there isn't really a damn thing holding anyone back on the old group. Its AWESOME.


Now thats a run on sentence!

The current Saint stuff is brilliant but as always, there's room for improvement. The brakes are super powerful and I love them but the levers could be better, and plenty of people have had issues with the lever throw changing all the time (fortunately mine have been pretty good), and if you ride heavy-braking tracks all the time and you're a big rider to boot, you can still overheat the pads easily enough. More power and better heat dissipation wouldn't go astray!

 

[norbar]

didn't they already try this and call it Hone? I'm still rocking my Hone cranks, 4 years later.

Hone turned into slx.

 

[slyfink]

its nothing new. in any industry


2012's have been available from multiple mfg's for several months. sram, fox, shimano....
where did you order from??

A pair of M785 brakes from ChainReaction... ordered in June, received half the brakes in July and the other half yesterday... problem is, they messed up and sent me one black and one silver.... (btw, black looks badass, silver looks cheap) Not that I care too much about looks, but that kinda sucks. I'm debating just running them as is, or emailing them to see what they can do for me.

Hone turned into slx.

really? caus' I thought Hone was SaintLite whereas SLX was XTLite. But I could be wrong.... anyways, looks like Zee, is more of a Saintcheaper rather than SaintLite, which is always good. I run a Saint SS on my trail bike, and loved the sound of that clutch mechanism on the XTR, but the XTR didn't come in an SS version. That is another item that will undoubtedly be run on my bike.

 

[samIam]

The saint sounds great, I am really disapointed in the FOX info though. I though for sure there would be an UD fork or something new, not just a few revisions to the 40.

 

[4130biker]

Anyone else psyched on the "Zee" group??

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooops!

 

[banj]

really? caus' I thought Hone was SaintLite whereas SLX was XTLite. But I could be wrong.... anyways, looks like Zee, is more of a Saintcheaper rather than SaintLite, which is always good. I run a Saint SS on my trail bike, and loved the sound of that clutch mechanism on the XTR, but the XTR didn't come in an SS version. That is another item that will undoubtedly be run on my bike.

SLX is actually somewhere between Saint and XT. They're supposedly 100% stiffer than XT but only marginally heavier. It's something like 30 to 50 grams, I don't remember the exact figure. For the money I personally think that SLX are the best crank out there. I've picked up a couple of pairs off of Chainreaction for under $160 shipped!

I had a set of hones a ways back, they were nice, ended up bending the drive side arm in a stack up with a buddy.

 

[staike]

Anyone else psyched on the "Zee" group??

Read the previous page...

 

[climbingbubba]

It is correct that SLX took over Hone's but neither were a Saint JR. Neither were or are offered in 83mm. I believe they were still considered AM. Just a slightly cheaper and in some cases stronger XT. The funny thing is when I weighed my hones and XT's the Hones only weighed 10 grams more and had the steel inserts.

The Hone cranks were actually just LX cranks painted black if you bought the triple ring version and if you bought the dual ring/bash version they had steel pedal inserts and a beefier axle. I believe this is the same with the SLX.

I still have my hones as well. I bent one of the crank arms (after 3 years of abuse) and got lucky enough to find a brand new one on ebay for $30. So 4 years later the drive side is still going strong even though they have been put on my pumptrack bike now. The SLX are holding up every bit as good but I liked the sleek look of the hones a lot better.

I am excited for the new saint stuff. Hopefully they will retain their power and feel but drop a bit of weight.

 

[IH8Rice]

A pair of M785 brakes from ChainReaction... ordered in June, received half the brakes in July and the other half yesterday... problem is, they messed up and sent me one black and one silver.... (btw, black looks badass, silver looks cheap) Not that I care too much about looks, but that kinda sucks. I'm debating just running them as is, or emailing them to see what they can do for me.

well thats obviously a issue with your retailer. all mfg's that are selling 2012 products have had availability for some time now

 

[slyfink]

well thats obviously a issue with your retailer. all mfg's that are selling 2012 products have had availability for some time now

yeah, except that here in Canada, none of the retailers I spoke with could get the 2012 XT stuff from the distributor. The only stuff they got were with build kits from Ibis.

More and more, here in Canada, I'm finding the distributors are dropping the ball wrt to mail-order. Sure, the prices have come down, but availability of product is dismal. I wound up having to buy tires direct from Schwalbe caus' none of the distributors would carry any quantity of the Hans Dampf. The situation was the same with the XT brakes, and with a Giro helmet I wanted, and countless other examples. Where is the advantage in having to special order something at full MSRP from the distributor, when I can order the same product on-line for much less. I can't even return products ordered from a distributor if it's doesn't fit, or there's something wrong with it. I think the LBS' are doing a great job competing with on-line stores, it's the distributors that are screwing them over.

 

[4130biker]

QUOTE=staike;3732131]Read the previous page... [/QUOTE]

my bad

I suppose that makes one other person psyched on it, even if he does run his page settings like a noob!

 

[IH8Rice]

yeah, except that here in Canada, none of the retailers I spoke with could get the 2012 XT stuff from the distributor. The only stuff they got were with build kits from Ibis.

More and more, here in Canada, I'm finding the distributors are dropping the ball wrt to mail-order. Sure, the prices have come down, but availability of product is dismal. I wound up having to buy tires direct from Schwalbe caus' none of the distributors would carry any quantity of the Hans Dampf. The situation was the same with the XT brakes, and with a Giro helmet I wanted, and countless other examples. Where is the advantage in having to special order something at full MSRP from the distributor, when I can order the same product on-line for much less. I can't even return products ordered from a distributor if it's doesn't fit, or there's something wrong with it. I think the LBS' are doing a great job competing with on-line stores, it's the distributors that are screwing them over.

ouch. that does sound like a huge PITA.

your distributors are making you order product at MSRP with no returns?? how is a dealer suppose to make any moneys?

 

[slyfink]

ouch. that does sound like a huge PITA.

your distributors are making you order product at MSRP with no returns?? how is a dealer suppose to make any moneys?

I really like my lbs (Phat Moose), the guys are awesome. and they ask themselves the same question. I go there caus' I like'em, they're good wrenches and good guys. But that's not gonna cut it for joe-public. I think they've built a bit of a niche in our town for high-er bikes and parts, and are geared towards DH. Their inventory isn't huge, but it's good and it's high-end. Anyways, I think they survive despite the distributors, through good work ethics and a good vibe...

 

[p-spec]

yeah, except that here in Canada, none of the retailers I spoke with could get the 2012 XT stuff from the distributor. The only stuff they got were with build kits from Ibis.

More and more, here in Canada, I'm finding the distributors are dropping the ball wrt to mail-order. Sure, the prices have come down, but availability of product is dismal. I wound up having to buy tires direct from Schwalbe caus' none of the distributors would carry any quantity of the Hans Dampf. The situation was the same with the XT brakes, and with a Giro helmet I wanted, and countless other examples. Where is the advantage in having to special order something at full MSRP from the distributor, when I can order the same product on-line for much less. I can't even return products ordered from a distributor if it's doesn't fit, or there's something wrong with it. I think the LBS' are doing a great job competing with on-line stores, it's the distributors that are screwing them over.

really ????? we had the new xt grouppo forever....

 

[p-spec]

custom orders at eny shop are 97% of the time non refundable.

but yeah its just easier to shop online,once I leave this shop im back shopping online.

even my cost isn't that mazing as one would think.

 

[norbar]

really? caus' I thought Hone was SaintLite whereas SLX was XTLite. But I could be wrong.... anyways, looks like Zee, is more of a Saintcheaper rather than SaintLite, which is always good. I run a Saint SS on my trail bike, and loved the sound of that clutch mechanism on the XTR, but the XTR didn't come in an SS version. That is another item that will undoubtedly be run on my bike.

Nope. The official press release stated that Hone will get a bit lighter and become SLX. XT is not really an enduro component group.

 

[HardtailHack]

I don't get it, most people are removing gears from cassettes and still running fairly tight ratios.

Why would you want 10 gears in one tooth steps until the top cog or two? I would be shifting two at a time on every shift, I like my Shimano gear but this seems a bit odd, it's early days I guess.

Actually I've only move to 9 spd spacing in the last few months, this 10sp stuff won't effect me for years.

 

[dropmachine]

Not everybody thinks they are super not-yet-discovered-american-idol-super-world-cup racer, so this 6 block of gears thing affects very few I'd say. Downhillers are already a tiny fraction of the market. Racers are even smaller. No sense in making something with a tiny range of gears when its far more practical for most users to have a wider range.

 

[IH8Rice]

Not everybody thinks they are super not-yet-discovered-american-idol-super-world-cup racer, so this 6 block of gears thing affects very few I'd say. Downhillers are already a tiny fraction of the market. Racers are even smaller. No sense in making something with a tiny range of gears when its far more practical for most users to have a wider range.

^^ all of this.

people who cut down their cassettes are in a small market. plus, having a larger cassette gives those fanbois the ability to make a smaller cassette without actually having to produce it. i dont see Sram or Shimano making a cassette with less gears any time soon.

 

[William42]

not much to add, other then that I like the idea of ZEE.

Shimano claims XT is substantially stiffer (donno about 2012 xt, this was for the last gen), the numbers I heard were ~30%, but that SLX offers steel pedal inserts for people concerned about whacking pedals, at a less costly price.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

shimano groupo names kill me sometimes...

zee, saint, hone...im sure there is reason behind it but they sound ridiculous.

 

[HardtailHack]

^^ all of this.

people who cut down their cassettes are in a small market. plus, having a larger cassette gives those fanbois the ability to make a smaller cassette without actually having to produce it. i dont see Sram or Shimano making a cassette with less gears any time soon.

What is the point of having ten gears spaced one tooth apart(except maybe the two lowest ratios)?

On a 9sp cassette I run an 11-34t to get away from having super close gearing but I dial out the two lowest ratios, if I use road cassette I find I'm clicking two gears to get a useful ratio change.
For once I'm with the fanboi's, I'll still never own a Speshi though.

 

[dropmachine]

Some people actually have to ride places on the DH bike to be able to ride it. Across a trail, a bit of a ride from the lift, whatever. A wider range cassette just makes it easier to do so.

Also don't forget people use SAINT stuff on trail bikes and mini-dh bikes too. Its not just for the pyjama pant power rangers raceboys.

In any case I can't see what the whining is about. Just cut out the gears you don't want either with the limit screws or a spacer. whats the issue?

 

[staike]

The buzz is that Saint is getting the Plus-clutch soon. (http://www.pinkbike.com/news/RCs-Picks-Top-Ten-for-2011.html)

Awesome.

 

[p-spec]

I run 11-23 9 speed ultegras,I have 2 of them set asie for me with a pile of 9 speed dura ace chains.

 

[IH8Rice]

What is the point of having ten gears spaced one tooth apart(except maybe the two lowest ratios)?

On a 9sp cassette I but a 11-34 to get away from having super close gearing but I dial out the two lowest ratios, if I buy use road cassette I find I'm clicking two gears to get a useful ratio change.
For once I'm with the fanboi's, I'll still never own a Speshi though.

dropmachine said it best again.