[shock]

for those that don't know me. this is Brian from Therapy Components aka Brake Therapy

I am going to try and introduce a line of suspension springs, starting with rear shock springs. The goal is to have springs as light or lighter than the current titanium springs on the market, at about half the price.

So I have several questions. 1) who has purchased ti springs? b) what rate, length, stroke and diameter? 3) what is the actual weight (not advertised) and the actual weight of the steel spring it replaced?, oh and I suppose d) what bike/shock was it for.

Initially, I will probably offer one spring until finances allow subsequent production runs.

Thanks in advance for any and all input. I really think this has a great value in the market, given the cost of ti springs.

Brian

www.therapycomponents.com, braketherapy@therapycomponents.com

 

[punkassean]

Brian, gawd knows a semi-affordable alternative would be appreciated! I haven't ever bought one (because of the price) but if I did it would be for a 8.5x2.5 shock in probably the 450-500# range.

 

[nickaziz]

450x3.0

 

[Toshi]

i haven't bought one, but it would be a 550 x 3.0

 

[Curb Hucker]

I had one last year for my Nicolai it was a 600x2.75, im looking to buy a 450 or 400x3.0 for '05

 

[xy9ine]

450x3 for avy. pls k thx.

 

[zedro]

considering no one is actually answering your question, exept for the fact people run every spring available out there, you may just have to design to max stress capacity...

 

[Zark]

9X3 5th element 450X3 Titanium spring. On a 2003 M1 with 9" Sorry I don't know what ratio it is.

 

[erikkellison]

I'll post what I know.
1. Have not purchased Ti due to price.
2. Rate = 350lb Length = 8.5 i2i shock (actual length 5 7/8") Stroke = 2.5" Diameter = 5th Element (2 1/8" De, 1 1/2" Di - those are close estimates)
3. Never weighed my steel spring because that would require a bushing removal/installation tool to do so, and I really have no reason (aka no Ti spring) to do so. I hope a Ti spring weighs less, but I struggle with how you can make a Ti spring to weigh less than what a current Ti spring weighs while retaining spring rate. Will the spring still have infinite fatigue life?
4. For an '04 SC Bullit.

 

[Silver]

Make them for rootbeer Bullits, and you'll never have to work again...

 

[AlberTop]

450 X 3.0 Ti from Mojo Suspension for Intense M1.

 

[DHS]

I have 2 Ti Springs. one on my XC bike (7.5x2.0) about 270grams lighter
the other is on my DH bike (9.0x3.0) about 340grams lighter.
i'd like to get another Ti for my other DH bike, they just feel better over all. and weigh savings are there. i would need a 8.75x2.75 spring for the other bike.
sweet idea.
Steve

 

[Repack]

If you are going to offer springs, you should also see about offering a service to revalve shocks for smaller riders. I would say that damping is about as big of an issue for a small rider as available spring weights. I've set up a DH bike for a small rider and had no choice but to back everything out.

 

[buildyourown]

Good luck with making your own Ti springs. There is a reason RCS is one of the only, if not THE only company doing it. And they 20 years experience making Ti springs for Boeing.
I also think you will have a hard time marketing a spring if you don't offer a complete size range.

 

[stgil888]

I've never purchased a titanium spring because, to me, they aren't worth it at current prices. If I were to buy one it would be for a specialized bighit (8.75" i2i, 2.8" stroke?)

 

[OGRipper]

Good luck with making your own Ti springs. There is a reason RCS is one of the only, if not THE only company doing it. And they 20 years experience making Ti springs for Boeing.
I also think you will have a hard time marketing a spring if you don't offer a complete size range.

Hold on now, Brian didn't exactly say he would be making ti springs, and for half the price it sounds like something different to me. I'd guess some different material not used in this application before...Brian can you say anything more?

 

[tne]

shock : Romic double D 9.5" i2i (on a DHR)
stock Romic spring (350x3") = 530g
Ti spring (350x3") = 290g
(I don't know the manufacturer..)

 

[zedro]

Hold on now, Brian didn't exactly say he would be making ti springs, and for half the price it sounds like something different to me. I'd guess some different material not used in this application before...Brian can you say anything more?

100$ says its steel. Yeah you heard me....

 

[Gary]

I would NEVER* buy a Ti spring unless it were cheaper than a steel one and i still wouldn't be buying it to save weight. A light bike is totally pointless for me. same goes for carbon pish.

*here in the UK Manitou DH steel springs are only £12 ($20) so it's extremely unlikely

if you are talking about making a steel spring with less material and fewer winds per length won't it be weaker?

 

[zedro]

if you are talking about making a steel spring with less material and fewer winds per length won't it be weaker?

not if the steel used is stronger

 

[Kornphlake]

not if the steel used is stronger

Phleeeze, there is no way steel is stronger than titanium, everybody knows titanium is the most awesome material for anything made out of metal. Heck even stuff made out of plastic would be better if made out of titanium. Maybe the titanium used is stronger, lighter and cheaper than normal titanium, ever think of that smart guy???




:evil:

 

[bpatterson6]

I bought the 8.5x2.5 at 600# from RCS.
230.00 - What a Rip, but I just had to have a Ti Spring
I feel a definate difference beween the previous Steel spring
and the Ti Spring I have now. It way more progressive now
than before.

 

[MikeD]

Maybe he's using transparent aluminum.

 

[Tarpon]

Maybe he's using transparent aluminum.

Now way. He must have gotten a good deal on a batch of unobtainium.

 

[OGRipper]

Maybe it's a plastic booty spring like motion control.

Or maybe its a carbonium fiber leaf spring.

Or maybe it's a flash-frozen dried wet noodle.

Wait, can you hear that? It's a deafening silence from Brian...

 

[zedro]

Maybe it's a plastic booty spring like motion control.

Or maybe its a carbonium fiber leaf spring.

Or maybe it's a flash-frozen dried wet noodle.

Wait, can you hear that? It's a deafening silence from Brian...

well whatever it is, it'll surely rip-off some DW-Link patents....

 

[Curb Hucker]

Or maybe its a carbonium fiber leaf spring.

the new Cadillac XLR has those, theyre hella cool

 

[DIRTWRKS]

I need two of them for a Fox Vanillac RC 8.75 x 2.75 stroke.

 

[ohio]

100$ says its steel. Yeah you heard me....

You could do some sick ****e with carbon (thermoplastic matrix....)

 

[zedro]

You could do some sick ****e with carbon (thermoplastic matrix....)

yeah, brought that up in the mtbr thread. Saw some cool CF coils in enginerd class.

 

[OGRipper]

I just looked at those pics and have to say my first reaction was "yikes, not a brittle carbon spring!!" But I guess that's 'cuz I am still stuck with bad memories from the first carbon stuff, I know it's come a long way since then so I'm open to it...same way everyone thought ti bikes were never gonna be any good after riding a Teledyne Titan back in the day.

And aside from brittle, you know what the problem was? Yep: TOO FLEXY.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Whoa too much caffeine today.

OG out.

 

[shock]

Maybe it's a plastic booty spring like motion control.

Or maybe its a carbonium fiber leaf spring.

Or maybe it's a flash-frozen dried wet noodle.

Wait, can you hear that? It's a deafening silence from Brian...

The deafening silence was actually because I had WORK to do yesterday, you know, work that doesn't involve sitting at the computer (ok, and I actually cheated and went on my first below freezing ride of the year)

I am not making titanium springs

Everyone's guess is close, but it's actually a ferrous based air spring. By aligning magnet particals within an electromagnetic force field, I'm able to creat any spring rate I want with no weight at all. The force field is powered by linear generators actuated by suspension movement (patent pending).

It is designed to infringe on EVERYONE's patents, including my own, so that I can sue myself and get lots of free press

 

[DIRTWRKS]

[


Okay Scotty but won't that upset the free energy balance in the Di-Lithium crystals !

Care to elaborate further on this technology ?

 

[Salami]

Everyone's guess is close, but it's actually a ferrous based air spring. By aligning magnet particals within an electromagnetic force field, I'm able to creat any spring rate I want with no weight at all. The force field is powered by linear generators actuated by suspension movement (patent pending).

It is designed to infringe on EVERYONE's patents, including my own, so that I can sue myself and get lots of free press

Thanks for the laugh and thanks for all the info you gave me when I spoke to you this morning!

Rich

 

[oly]

I remember hearing of a spring material used in Stock car racing(who apparently cant use Ti springs). It was based on steel but was very light. Someone was looking into it since to start a production of Ti springs RCS wanted a Down payment of 50k. Never saw or heard anything more.

maybe Shock has revived the quest for the holy grail? I'd buy one if it lived up to the intent.

Good luck, and that was a funny post... sue yourself..... haha.

 

[OGRipper]

The deafening silence was actually because I had WORK to do yesterday, you know, work that doesn't involve sitting at the computer (ok, and I actually cheated and went on my first below freezing ride of the year)

Dat's cool, just thought you might be paying closer attention to your own survey but whatever...

Anyway not suprised you don't want to give out more detail but you know we love to pry. Sounds promising but I think you would need to offer many different weights for most of the common shocks to begin to realize the market potential...and have an exclusive, protectable design or manufacturing
technology (or right to the same), otherwise the majors could just rip it.

 

[shock]

[


Okay Scotty but won't that upset the free energy balance in the Di-Lithium crystals !

Care to elaborate further on this technology ?

As long as the tenious, very unstable balance between matter and anti-matter is mantained, there's only a negligible, very small, almost uncalculable (without using percentages less than 50%) that the universe would impload upon itself...

 

[shock]

I remember hearing of a spring material used in Stock car racing(who apparently cant use Ti springs). It was based on steel but was very light. Someone was looking into it since to start a production of Ti springs RCS wanted a Down payment of 50k. Never saw or heard anything more.

maybe Shock has revived the quest for the holy grail? I'd buy one if it lived up to the intent.

Good luck, and that was a funny post... sue yourself..... haha.

It's actually a development from my days in F-1 and Indycar racing, where you CAN use Ti if you want, but we found these worked better, were far more consistant, and saved a lot of money (even though at the time the cost was really not important)

I never did feel that the Ti spring for bicycles was really a practical alternative, the only reason they can get away with it is a) it's Ti, ooh, aah
and 2) there wasn't a good alternative for weight savings.

 

[shock]

Dat's cool, just thought you might be paying closer attention to your own survey but whatever...

Anyway not suprised you don't want to give out more detail but you know we love to pry. Sounds promising but I think you would need to offer many different weights for most of the common shocks to begin to realize the market potential...and have an exclusive, protectable design or manufacturing
technology (or right to the same), otherwise the majors could just rip it.

Yeah, I need to keep details under wraps for the time being, until everything is done. I should have actual weights and prices sometime in January (when the first batch are done). If everything goes right with testing, etc, I will have other rates/lengths available and for sale by Sea Otter.

As far as majors ripping it off, always possible and a worry, companies with money and no morals can be hard to defend against....so we'll see what happens, if I'm lucky/good, maybe I can sell to them....

 

[zedro]

As far as majors ripping it off, always possible and a worry,

naw, probably just companies ripping on it. I think the Ti brigade (ie. PS and RCS) have comitted themselves.