[ZHendo]

WARNING, F-ING LONG POST

Let me first apologize for not having any pictures to upload...if i see enough emoticons with the "pics or STFU" sign i might just dig out my camera from the depths of my closet.

To preface any comparisons or impressions, I'd like to explain the bikes I'm comparing the Nomad to. My dad rides an Intense 5.5, and I used to ride a Yeti ASX which was sold for a Spec SX Trail. The SX Trail was my main ride for a couple years and I used it for everything: downhill racing, Whistler Bike Park, Downieville, Ashland, 50 mile XC rides, Mackenzie River Trail, etc. It weighed in at about 35lbs at its lightest, but it was a solid all around bike that certainly favored descending. With the SX sold, I rode an old Turner Flux 4" bike with a definite XC build that clattered its way down my local hills.

When I finally had the opportunity to get a Nomad Carbon, I ordered one in black and waited for the new shipment to arrive on US shores while I attempted to assemble a solid, yet reasonably lightweight build. Here are some highlights:

2011 Fox 36 Talas RLC, kashima coat
RP23 XV shock
SLX cranks (double, 22-36)
X9 ten speed
Stans Flow rims on gold Pro 2 hubs
Thomson stem/post

Building it up was a snap as everything was already well prepped (facing, chasing, etc) and the cable routing is nice. The head tube does not have an aluminum insert, but the carbon in there is incredibly smooth along with the carbon in the seat tube. The finish is top notch as well, and there are no noticeable blemishes in the paint. The bolt system used on the frame is freaking brilliant though I wish they didn't thread directly into the frame, and the lifetime bearing warranty already has me curious about how long the existing set will last in the Seattle weather. The little carbon-looking guards that Santa Cruz put in place on the downtube as well as in chainslap-susceptible areas looks great, but I chose to do my own chainstay/seatstay wrap because they're so pretty I just can't bear to see them demolished by an angry chain.

Today was the bike's maiden voyage, and when I rolled up to the trailhead I found myself praying that I not damage the bike. It looks like a piece of art, especially once built. The first thing I noticed once on the trail was how short the cockpit is compared to my SX. I had a large SX frame and even with a 50mm stem that reach was LONG. This large Nomad C feels much shorter, and in my opinion it just sits the rider in the perfect position. Its comfortable to jump out of the saddle and hammer over the bars, but sitting and spinning is a complete pleasure. The 67 degree head angle slackens out nicely under sag, and the result is an aggressively positioned front end that does fine at low speeds but really loves moderate to high speed descending.

I have ridden VPP bikes, but I've never liked them as much as I like this new VPP2 system. Its much more neutral in that it doesn't have all the extremes of the old system. Pedaling in the granny ring really stiffens up the pedaling for climbing, and even standing up the bike still feels like a hardtail. No joke. The big ring gives the suspension significantly more motion during pedaling, but it's significantly more efficient still than the 4Bar bikes I've ridden. I found myself pushing much harder gears than usual without paying much attention. The X9 10-speed really compliments the bike well in this sense because with the pedaling efficiency of the frame design, I can take advantage of the extra variety of gears in the mid-range of the cassette (I'm running an 11-32). When you jam on the gas this bike will get up and go, but without as much harshness as some of the older VPP bikes.

I took the bike down all of my favorite trails in my local park to get a feel for the frames capabilities. On the high speed downhill I found myself going undoubtedly faster than I have in a very long time, possibly ever. On the twisty, undulating loamy trail, the bike cornered with confidence and tore up the switchbacks faster than the Turner I had been riding. This really is the kind of bike that you feel "in" rather than "on", which leads to phenomenal cornering confidence especially at speed. I don't have my suspension 100% dialed yet but I'm very close, and while the bike is poppy, it seems to like being on the ground quite a bit as well and feels quite a bit like some downhill bikes in that manner. I personally like it because the bike still takes to the air quickly, but it will still stick to the ground over rough stuff.

The one thing I noticed most about this bike was the stiffness. This frame is so stiff it scared me on a couple rocky corners where I expected it to skip around and track a little loosely. However, the suspension kept the bike stuck to the ground and the frame stayed straight as an arrow, taking me exactly where I pointed the bars. Buyers beware, you really need to have a stiff stem/bar/fork combo because this bike will definitely accentuate any noodly parts. With my stiff Raceface bar/Thomson stem/36 Talas combo, the bike was a rocket ship and had me pushing into corners harder than I ever normally would. The stiffness is the crowning aspect of this bike because it gives you so much confidence and allows you to feel the trail in a way that translates instantly to more speed.

At this point I don't have any gripes with the bike, though I am curious to see how the carbon holds up. The action of the VPP certainly takes some getting used to, but I found that I was continuously amazed by the great things it would do in various situations. I think that this is going to be an incredible bike if everything holds up as I hope it will, and while I've ridden a whole host of bikes, this is the closest to the "one bike" that can still do everything really, really well. I'd rather ride this on a trail ride than a 4" bike, and I would rather ride it on DH trails than my old SX Trail.

 

[sanjuro]

I would have gotten an Enduro.

 

[sanjuro]

P.S. The Nomad has a half inch shorter TT than Specialized bikes.

I am a perfect medium in Specialized and I would probably ride a large Nomad, even though you are about 2 inches taller.

 

[yesimaddicted]

solid. there great bikes. glad to see you stoked on it

 

[Mooch]

So glad to read your impressions, I'm picking mine up this weekend for it's first ride and your post just got me more amped!! Cheers

 

[Demomonkey]

So glad to read your impressions, I'm picking mine up this weekend for it's first ride and your post just got me more amped!! Cheers

Hey Mooch, welcome to RM you

Looking forward to seeing your new ride bro.

 

[trib]

wouldn't mind a few pictures, sounds like a great ride

 

[vikingboy]

I'm trying to decide on carbon nomad bs carbon enduro right now....thanks for the timely post!

 

[Kntr]

Three of my buddys got the carbon Enduro and love them. The Nomad was in the running but they Specialized was a better deal.

Post some pics.

 

[epic]

I'm mulling Carbon Nomad vs. Intense Tracer as a mini-DH. Carbon Nomad looks hot!

 

[JCL]

Both nice bikes. The Enduro is about a degree slacker but the Nomad is full carbon.

 

[jon-boy]

Nice write up. I'm certainly tempted to give one a try, though I'm loving my Remedy so much that I'm fearful of change now. If the carbon frame on the Nomad does as good a job of dampening out the high frequency vibrations as my road frame does and is a super stiff chassis in addition then I'm sure the riding experience will be quite different.

 

[Pslide]

Cheers for the review. From what I read this has got to be one of the best do it all bikes of all time. It's definitely on my short list for my next trail bike.

Out of curiosity, when you say the bolts thread directly into the frame, is it into a metal insert or into carbon? That does worry me slightly...

 

[ZHendo]

Read through this post to have previous questions answered. Not in the right order they were posed though, as that would be too logical.

I test rode the Enduro, twice actually, and I thought I was going to be buying it until I saw the price tag and the parts it came with relative to what I could build with the Nomad. The Nomad was in the end a better value for me, and after riding the Nomad I like it better than the Enduro. All the DH guys have hard ons for the Enduro because it has the geo of a mini-DH bike. This is actually the main reason I wanted one, and the lifetime warranty Specialized offers is really unbeatable. However, the Nomad is a touch quicker while still being stable, and it accelerates quite a bit faster than the Enduro. I think the Nomad suits my riding style more than the Enduro, though I doubt I'd be complaining about my bike if I had gotten the Enduro. I think the Nomad is much sexier, especially with the monstrous top tube, and while the Enduro may have a little bit better small bump compliance, the Nomad handles medium and large hits more effectively in my opinion. I got a little tired of the Horst Link with my SX Trail because I don't like how the bikes bog down under standing efforts and super hard accelerations, and the VPP system really seems to alleviate this little complaint. The Enduro sinks straight down into its travel when cornering which, when combined with the short chainstays, brings a really nice cornering sensation of being hunkered down and really stable. The Nomad doesn't sink into the corners as well, but if you're aggressive with it I think it actually corners better than the Enduro because the suspension actually keeps traction better than the FSR linkage. The only bike I was looking at that I didn't get to ride is the Ibis Mojo HD, which is still an intriguing ride to me.

The bolts thread into a metal insert, but the insert isn't removable from the looks of it. You just have to make sure you take care of your hardware because if you damage the threads in the frame, you've fvcked.

One common misunderstanding about the use of carbon in full suspension mountain frames is that it is used to dampen vibrations. It is NOT designed to do that at all. In fact, the carbon used in mountain frames is a lot stiffer than road bike carbon. It's actually stiffer than any other material used in mountain bike construction. You don't want to have material compliance in a full suspension mountain bikes because then what's the point of all that suspension? The carbon doesn't have the dual personality that many people think it does. It's light, but ridiculously stiff, which is why its used.

 

[ZHendo]

Here are some lovely cell phone pics.

And I apologize, the ridemonkey photo uploader seems to insist that the second picture looks better sideways. I happen to disagree, but its a stubborn bugger and won't let me change it. Just tilt your head sideways, the drool can exit the corner of your mouth in a cleaner fashion that way anyways.

 

[ZHendo]

also, when i install my heim2 guide i shouldn't need to lengthen the chain right? i know this frame has a decent amount of chain growth so i'm a little curious, i didn't need to on my sx trail.

 

[OGRipper]

One common misunderstanding about the use of carbon in full suspension mountain frames is that it is used to dampen vibrations. It is NOT designed to do that at all. In fact, the carbon used in mountain frames is a lot stiffer than road bike carbon. It's actually stiffer than any other material used in mountain bike construction. You don't want to have material compliance in a full suspension mountain bikes because then what's the point of all that suspension? The carbon doesn't have the dual personality that many people think it does. It's light, but ridiculously stiff, which is why its used.

Great write ups in this thread, solid work.

But this part is not correct. I think you are confusing vibration damping with material compliance (like skinny seat stays for vertical compliance on a road bike).

The nature of carbon results in decreased vibration, and because it is so light and can be made into customized shapes, the frame is also stiffer overall - you can use more material where you need/want it without a huge weight penalty. So it's sort of the best of both worlds. It's true that carbon mtb's are generally stiffer than carbon road bikes, but that's because they need to be stronger and typically use more material.

If you get a chance to ride the carbon and aluminum bikes back-to-back, you will probably notice the carbon bike is at once "smoother" but also stiffer. That smoothness comes from less vibration transmitted through the frame due to the nature of the material.

 

[jon-boy]

Great write ups in this thread, solid work.

But this part is not correct. I think you are confusing vibration damping with material compliance (like skinny seat stays for vertical compliance on a road bike).

The nature of carbon results in decreased vibration, and because it is so light and can be made into customized shapes, the frame is also stiffer overall - you can use more material where you need/want it without a huge weight penalty. So it's sort of the best of both worlds. It's true that carbon mtb's are generally stiffer than carbon road bikes, but that's because they need to be stronger and typically use more material.

If you get a chance to ride the carbon and aluminum bikes back-to-back, you will probably notice the carbon bike is at once "smoother" but also stiffer. That smoothness comes from less vibration transmitted through the frame due to the nature of the material.

That's what I was getting at. My road bike is stiff as f___ but somehow on chipseal roads the high frequency vibrations that I was getting from my old aluminim road bike are not there.

For me I'd love to try the Mojo HD too. I really like the way my old Ironhorse MkIII rode and if that Ibis rode in a similar manner then it would be a real weapon for the trails that I ride.

 

[sanjuro]

Great write ups in this thread, solid work.

But this part is not correct. I think you are confusing vibration damping with material compliance (like skinny seat stays for vertical compliance on a road bike).

The nature of carbon results in decreased vibration, and because it is so light and can be made into customized shapes, the frame is also stiffer overall - you can use more material where you need/want it without a huge weight penalty. So it's sort of the best of both worlds. It's true that carbon mtb's are generally stiffer than carbon road bikes, but that's because they need to be stronger and typically use more material.

If you get a chance to ride the carbon and aluminum bikes back-to-back, you will probably notice the carbon bike is at once "smoother" but also stiffer. That smoothness comes from less vibration transmitted through the frame due to the nature of the material.

I think road builders do design their frames to have some vertical compliance, particularly the Roubaix style bikes. Usually they want it as stiff as a board around the BB area and the head tube.

The C/Dale road bikes were using tapered head tubes before even mountain bikes.

Since I have never ridden a carbon mountain bike, I have to take yours and Zac's word on the ride, but except for hardtails, I would think the ride experience is so much different given the out-of-seat, all-mountain nature vs sitting in one position for hours at a time for roadies.

Obviously, flex at the pivot points is what you want to eliminate, and I'm sure carbon bikes do a great job.

 

[OGRipper]

I think road builders do design their frames to have some vertical compliance, particularly the Roubaix style bikes. Usually they want it as stiff as a board around the BB area and the head tube.

That is correct, at least for some road builders. Roubaix is one example, but also think about the super skinny seat stays on some of the Cervelos.

With suspension bikes that type of material compliance is not necessary or even desireable. You basically want the frame components to be as stiff as possible, leaving the suspension to handle compliance. But even with the stiffest carbon frame you STILL get some vibration deadening as compared to an aluminum version due to the nature of the material.

Carbon is just a different animal and the normal rules don't always apply.

 

[frorider]

the carbon nomad is stiff. stiffer than my alu nomad frame. SC used to say the carbon version was 0.75 lbs lighter, but now they're saying it's 1.2 lbs lighter.

i'm pretty open minded about new designs and technology, and i'm not anti-carbon per se, but i do have some lingering concerns about impact damage in the real world.

the SC tallboy, like the Nomad carbon, is plenty thick on the lower downtube / BB area, but nonetheless apparently got caved in from a loose rock that flew up (from emptybeer):

 

[ZHendo]

^^^the nomad's downtube guard seems like it'll prevent the above picture

OGRipper, my blunder. i guess i was just confused, i know that when i upgraded to carbon bars and such on hardtails it used to help a lot with vibrations. i was just repeating what a guy from a reputable shop had tried to explain to me. he was saying that carbon is used for stiffness on mountain bikes, which i guess is true, but you're right, i confused material compliance and vibration dampening.

also, another note about more ride time on the frame. its the first frame that i've felt has outmatched a fox 36 fork in the suspension department, but i think its largely because the 36 talas has a ton of seals that need to break in still. don't get me wrong, its a great fork and already handles well, but the rear suspension is just so unfazed by anything. i'm starting to push harder into corners and the bike is still holding solid, i just don't think i'll be able to outride the bike at this point. i've also noticed that the bike flies pretty well, as i hit a few high speed doubles and was rewarded by the same performance of my old SX: steady flights and effortless, solid landings. all good still.

 

[frorider]

^^^the nomad's downtube guard seems like it'll prevent the above picture

.

i agree, it would help protect it. the issue i have is that as i look over my stable of bikes, i see impact points (and some slight damage) in many locations e.g. on the side of the toptube, e.g. midway along the chainstay or seatstay, etc.

installing impact protectors all over a carbon frame doesn't seem practical.

for all we know, the pictured impact failure on the SC tallboy, or the chainstay failure on the SC blur LT-C at interbike, might have been related to manufacturing defects i.e. a weak area that happened to be where the impact was.

every nomad carbon owner i know locally (3) is highly stoked on the bike. thx for your ride reports.

 

[dropmachine]

Circles.

 

[dilzy]

That's what I was getting at. My road bike is stiff as f___ but somehow on chipseal roads the high frequency vibrations that I was getting from my old aluminim road bike are not there.

For me I'd love to try the Mojo HD too. I really like the way my old Ironhorse MkIII rode and if that Ibis rode in a similar manner then it would be a real weapon for the trails that I ride.

The carbon frame isolates you from the high frequency vibes because it has a higher resonant frequency that its aluminium counterpart.

 

[OGRipper]

The thing people tend to forget is that major impacts from rocks and other things will also damage aluminum frames.

SC anticipated the concern and does some pretty brutal impact testing, along with offering good warranty protection.

Only time will really tell how these bikes hold up long-term. But with all the skepticism out there and the rush to post up negative info on forums, only a couple problems have surfaced, so I'd say so far things look good.