It's no big deal that the XS202 works as a HDD, so does the NANO or any iPod for that matter, sydasti no you didn't mention the iPod but the thread is about the Nano...ummbikes said:
interesting iPod Nano reading
- Thread starter Jimmy_Pop
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I think you should check the repeat buyer rate on iPods. It's off the charts. They have customer loyalty 99% of companies in the world would kill for, and the 1% that wouldn't have monopolies.syadasti said:
How do you come up with this stuff? Apple's market position is almost purely a result of Msft's licensing structure vs. Apple's in the late 80s. This is not debatable. Jobs made a huge error, and that position is pretty much permanent due to market network effects. So Apple did the only thing they could at that point, went for a niche where Msft was weak and the network effects were not nearly as high. They did that very well.syadasti said:
It is true, however, that they don't make money off of their computers... but that's not an unusual tactic or even a value judgement regarding the quality. It's a strategic decision, and based on their profitabilty and share value, I'd say they're doing alright with it. But hey, feel free to point out that the free market system is wrong. Why do you hate America? Do you want the terrorists to win?
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The current worldwide installed OS userbase (not annual marketshare of sales) can be estimate relatively unbiasely using Google, one of the most used websites in the world (August 2004 was the last month they made these stats available - this estimate is the LARGEST, I've seen ones that vary from 3-6%):
Also its good to point out that the Apple PowerPC marketing was just more typical Apple BS. Steve Jobs has officially said it just can't keep up with the modern x86 RISC offerings and thats why they are dropping it for Intel. He said for years the completely opposite even though it was always the case...
As far as current sales go:
Apple marketshare has not been in the double digits since the mid to late nineties. It has been hovering around 2-3% and only usually puts them around 11-9th place depending on the year this decade. So they are less than 2% - a minor player who is dwarfed by the marketshare leaders...
Also its good to point out that the Apple PowerPC marketing was just more typical Apple BS. Steve Jobs has officially said it just can't keep up with the modern x86 RISC offerings and thats why they are dropping it for Intel. He said for years the completely opposite even though it was always the case...
Lets see your source and don't forget DAP are a new technology trend, the market hasn't matured. Their PCs haven't been growing like mad in sale like the hype you would like me to believe - its been shrinking to almost nothing since the mid 90s.ohio said:
In fact if MSFT didn't invest in Apple when the DOJ was breathing down their necks about their monopoly, Apple would have folded...
is that for the 4 or 2g?Andyman_1970 said:
one thing most folks seem concerned with right now is protection. a few companies have cases on deck, but won't be supplying for a couple weeks still. i used the little "Don't Steal Music" sheath to make a transparent vinyl case, and it has worked well so far. just a suggestion if you go for the Nano.
2 gig, the 4 gig is like $236'ish.
I can't do sources without revealing client names, but there should be publicly available data on repeat buyers somewhere.syadasti said:
What's your point about market maturity? What behavior would you expect in a more mature market? Why is that relevant?
Gotcha. Well of course it is, but if you read my post, you would know that the dis-aggregated numbers for each market segment tell a much more interesting story than aggregated worldwide numbers.syadasti said:
Take a cut at home-use computers combined with customer demo/psychographics, then at art/design (visual and audio) business segments, and you'll see that Apple is very effective at creating a product for the niches they pursue. However, collaborative and networked business applications are simply owned by MSFT, there's no point in even trying to compete.
I'm neither for nor against Apple (I had a pre OSX mac that I despised... I've been pleased with my G3 powerbook, but will probably replace it with a PC), I just find the whole space very interesting and I get annoyed when folks let odd emotions/loyalties/disloyalties cloud their statements about products or market behavior.
Not until the product is essentially a commodity does that drastically occur. It could be a decade before that stage is reached. Lots of money to be made until then, and any smart company will divest from the market once margins get that low.syadasti said:
Additionally, consumer access to information/opinions puts much more pressure on companies to come up with quality products and features (not necessarily functionality) that consumers want. It's far more difficult to produce a successful but inferior product these days than it was in the 80s and 90s.
Yah sounds fair. The last Apple product I owned was a Newton 120 (PDA), but I've had to help employees with their Gen3 and 4 iPods. The Gen4 would not work on his computer out of the box and was by no means easy to make it work - he would have never gotten it working on his machine by himself.ohio said:
My first computer was an Apple IIc and I've used the various Apples through my education up to the G4. OSX is a great OS. I might consider an Apple Intel box if the premium isn't too high (I can run OSX and Windows on the same box), but people have already hacked the developer edition OSX for Intel to work with any Intel based PC.
I don't like Apple because of the great ratio of marketing BS to actual mature/quality product (various battery, finish issues, charging for services packs that should be free, and their very quick product lifecycles - they just dropped their iPod mini even though it was the most popular iPod sold!?!?) Steve Jobs is despicable and I hate all their false claims to innovations, performance, and firsts throughout the years.
Apple gets niches cause people don't like to change, not that there isn't something better. They are trained and use to one platform and people have those various types of costs (real or perceived) associated with switching to another product. Publishing has taken ages to move from Quark to Adobe products for example...
Most users don't care about technology.syadasti said:
They care about fads and marketing fluff.
This is what people have been saying to you OVER and OVER and OVER.
Let's make a simple example.
A teenage boy gets an Ipod because:
it holds all his music, itunes is simple, and they look bitchin'.
A cheerleader comes over, checks out his new Ipod, he gets her number, hooks up with cheerleader, Boy smiles.
or
A teenage boy buys another player because it has more features.
A cheerleader asked him why he did not get an Ipod.
He goes into this big long geeky rant about how superior his walkman is to an Ipod.
Cheerleader walks away snickering.
Boy frowns.
America is built on fads and marketing.
Maybe if we want to be surpassed by the rest of the world and forget what made America what it is today. Maybe if we want a shallow people with no real values in their life.Jeremy R said:America is built on fads and marketing.
American automakers - it did them a lot of good to avoid the reality :nuts:
You simply don't get it.syadasti said:
And I'm going to buy a Nano just to spite you.
I know people buy Apple for marketing/fads/fluff/impulse reasons, that doesn't make it the best. So what is your point?
I should lower my tastes, buy an Apple, go to the nearest starbucks for some "quality" coffee, and later pick up some Bud and go down to McDonalds cause everyone is doing it? Its so great to be average isn't it? I can half ass everything and things will be great or least I can think they are and thats all that matters right
I should lower my tastes, buy an Apple, go to the nearest starbucks for some "quality" coffee, and later pick up some Bud and go down to McDonalds cause everyone is doing it? Its so great to be average isn't it? I can half ass everything and things will be great or least I can think they are and thats all that matters right
Yup, what killed american automakers was being focused on features, functionality, and customization, at the expense of reliability, cost, and ease of use (these are not universal desires for all products... this is what was specifically desired in a mass-market vehicle). They completely lost touch with what the market demanded.syadasti said:
For a modern day example, see the BMW i-Drive (gen I especially): Ridiculous amount of features and functionality, an true wonder of engineering, absolutely despised by even the most staunch BMW loyalists.
I don't remember, is everybody buying Apple products or is nobody buying Apple products?syadasti said:I should lower my tastes, buy an Apple, go to the nearest starbucks for some "quality" coffee, and later pick up some Bud and go down to McDonalds cause everyone is doing it? Its so great to be average isn't it? I can half ass everything and things will be great or least I can think they are and thats all that matters right
Sigh. Fella, the fact that you "know" this, is a reason you work in tech and not product design. Not that this is a bad thing; you should play to your strengths. But understanding consumers is not one of them.syadasti said:
No, you should recognize that everyone has varying needs and desires, and yours are not necessarily better or worse than anyone else's, whether they are different or the same. Having different needs is not a value judgement. However, meeting the broadest range of needs for your target market segment is just smart product design.syadasti said:
edit: Also, that would be buying a Dell, if you're talking about doing what everyone is doing. Maybe that gets to the bottom of it. You are really just upset that somethin you view as purely a tool has an aspect of style or fashion to it. That's what really sets you off. Let me ask you, do wear only sweatpants and haynes undershirts, or have you ever in your life paid more for an article of clothing because you liked the way it looked?
Apple succeeded due to good marketing of the iPod which is a good product but not the best. They created additional lock-in with things like their new music store concept. It doesn't mean that other products could not fit the average persons needs better - it just means they had the best marketing. I understand that marketing is key to mass adoption but that doesn't make a product better, just more successful.ohio said:
In one post you are talking about values and shallow people.syadasti said:I know people buy Apple for marketing/fads/fluff/impulse reasons, that doesn't make it the best. So what is your point?
I should lower my tastes, buy an Apple, go to the nearest starbucks for some "quality" coffee, and later pick up some Bud and go down to McDonalds cause everyone is doing it? Its so great to be average isn't it? I can half ass everything and things will be great or least I can think they are and thats all that matters right
And in the next post, you are looking down on people that are average, because you think your tastes in simple matters like beer and food makes you better than them.
You need to pull your head out of your azz every now and then to make sure a hurricane or something is not coming.
I also use bothstinkyboy said:
but xpress is defenately the old mans choice
My point is most people know those popular products aren't the best quality but buy them cause they best fit their various needs.Jeremy R said:
There are different quality grades of every product made - its a very simple idea. Just cause most people buy one product doesn't make that product the best grade available. Quality is only one factor in a consumer decision and its importance varies greatly from decision to decision.
Me too.............DRB said:
no its a reflection of his e-self. its not who he really is necesarily. like me for instance. alot of people think im either gay or a chick from my online persona. but in real life im a total hunksyadasti said:
. you cant tell much about a person by who they are on the internet "duchbag"Umm, you have long hair and an ugly girlfriend.lovebunny said:no its a reflection of his e-self. its not who he really is necesarily. like me for instance. alot of people think im either gay or a chick from my online persona. but in real life im a total hunk