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Intermittent and extended fasting

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
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I know BMI is not the most useful tool, and my doctor said I could stand to lose "a few pounds" but I felt like this was a concrete goal.
Your doctor was probably going 100% off of BMI. Ok, maybe 99%, with 1% being whether your LFTs and A1C were normal.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
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I ate lunch today post ride. I will eat a ribeye from Edwards Meats tonight, Monday night—hard to keep track with all this not working business.

:D

But then after that I’ll eat either Wednesday at noon if free food at conference good (unlikely) or at dinner. Wednesday dinner shall be out somewhere on the company dime.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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do you find that fasting helps with colds? I don't let getting sick slow my fasts down...and they seem to help with my illness recovery. It's kind of a cool "feature" that is most certainly anecdotal, but I'd love your input.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
do you find that fasting helps with colds? I don't let getting sick slow my fasts down...and they seem to help with my illness recovery. It's kind of a cool "feature" that is most certainly anecdotal, but I'd love your input.
I haven't been sick since starting IF so have no anecdotes to share. But I have heard this from others as well.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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24h later and I feel pretty good. Took my wife a week to recover. This is like the third or fourth illness that has progressed this way. So weird....
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
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@Full Trucker is full of snark in the daily thread regarding eating steaks after fasting. He is wrong re dietary fats (but yes, limiting baked goods is most likely a good idea).


Despite popular belief among doctors and the public, the conceptual model of dietary saturated fat clogging a pipe is just plain wrong. A landmark systematic review and meta-analysis of observational studies showed no association between saturated fat consumption and (1) all-cause mortality, (2) coronary heart disease (CHD), (3) CHD mortality, (4) ischaemic stroke or (5) type 2 diabetes in healthy adults.1 Similarly in the secondary prevention of CHD there is no benefit from reduced fat, including saturated fat, on myocardial infarction, cardiovascular or all-cause mortality.2 It is instructive to note that in an angiographic study of postmenopausal women with CHD, greater intake of saturated fat was associated with less progression of atherosclerosis whereas carbohydrate and polyunsaturated fat intake were associated with greater progression.3
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
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All things in moderation! Even diabeeeeeetus!
Just as in politics this “common sense” doesn’t work, though.

We don’t need sugar to live. Optimal dose health-wise would be 0. This goes for sucrose (glucose + fructose) and fructose alone—just because it grows in the wild doesn’t mean it’s good for us. It’s sweet because it’s good for the plants for us to eat them and shit out their seeds elsewhere.

We also don’t need any omega 6 fats. This is exactly the cheap swill that food manufacturers want to push on us, though, but they are pro-inflammatory. Omega 3 or saturated, please.

There is some evidence that we don’t even need to eat carbs at all… (as the body can make the small amount of glucose that the brain wants in addition to ketones via gluconeogenesis, using fat and protein as substrates)


Lots of references at that link. Eat those ribeyes and bacon.
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
55,835
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In a van.... down by the river
Just as in politics this “common sense” doesn’t work, though.

We don’t need sugar to live. Optimal dose health-wise would be 0. This goes for sucrose (glucose + fructose) and fructose alone—just because it grows in the wild doesn’t mean it’s good for us. It’s sweet because it’s good for the plants for us to eat them and shit out their seeds elsewhere.
Totally agree - I only eat it because it tastes good! Mmmm... diabeeeeetus.

We also don’t need any omega 6 fats. This is exactly the cheap swill that food manufacturers want to push on us, though, but they are pro-inflammatory. Omega 3 or saturated, please.
Also agree. Mmmm... cheap swill food. :drool:

There is some evidence that we don’t even need to eat carbs at all… (as the body can make the small amount of glucose that the brain wants in addition to ketones via gluconeogenesis, using fat and protein as substrates)


Lots of references at that link. Eat those ribeyes and bacon.
I'm just impressed that science is figuring out this COMPLICATED shit. Yay science!

I should probably go do some pushups. :homer:

For the record - I'm going to have some coq with mashed starch for lunch.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
after [Monday’s ribeye] I’ll eat either Wednesday at noon if free food at conference good (unlikely) or at dinner.
Now it is Tuesday, when it’d normally be time to eat lunch. The family is eating lunch at the moment and I feel a bit hungry. But come 1 or 1:30 PM I won’t feel hungry, and will feel just fine.

I think I’ll also fast some more this week:

Yesterday/Monday: ate lunch and dinner
Today/Tuesday: not eating
Wednesday: eating dinner for sure, maybe lunch if good
Thursday: eating lunch and dinner (latter most likely another Edwards Meats ribeye shared with the kids)
Friday: not eating
Saturday: eating lunch and dinner (ribeye 3 of 4 from the batch)
Sunday: eating lunch and dinner (ribeye 4 of 4)
(Next) Monday onwards: Going to do another extended fast, playing the length by ear based off how I feel during it
 
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Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
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@Full Trucker is full of snark...
Correct.

He is wrong...
Incorrect: you are eating fatty steaks after fasting.

...dietary fats...
I think you're inferring some meaning that I wasn't really thinking of here.

(but yes, limiting baked goods is most likely a good idea)
But they're so delicious! Will you be able to get by on just a handful of kare pan per week?

:D

In full disclosure, I only skimmed this article but I have to ask... is eBiking on the list of "healthy lifestyle interventions" ? Or are you planning to "walk briskly at or above 150 min/week" ?

And really dude, you do you. If what you're doing is working for you, and making you happy, go for it. But don't expect me to not give you grief. I mean c'mon, next to all the damn Colorado Super Athletes I'm basically obese so don't think I don't have body image / fitness goal issues. If I can't make fun of you, how else will I feel better about myself?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
.. is eBiking on the list of "healthy lifestyle interventions" ? Or are you planning to "walk briskly at or above 150 min/week" ?
From a health perspective as long as one logs 150 min per week of at least low intensity exercise of any sort (like that walking) the bar has been met. Won’t get one KOM, sure, but for the heart that’s the cut point.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,424
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Exit, CO
From a health perspective as long as one logs 150 min per week of at least low intensity exercise of any sort (like that walking) the bar has been met. Won’t get one KOM, sure, but for the heart that’s the cut point.
What is that like 2-1/2 hours? I'm screwed.

Also, the fuckers I chase up the hills ride at anything BUT a "low intensity" pace.

Fuckers.
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
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Exit, CO

They define it as MET-minutes, 1 MET being energy expenditure at rest. I would bet you hit the weekly recommendation by climbing from the lower lot to the bench in and of itself.
So... "intensity" i.e. doing a thing more intensely for a shorter amount of time is equal to the same thing done mellower, but for longer? When I worked for a nutritional supplements company, there were studies and whatnot going around about this sort of tomfoolery.

EDIT: the "Two Methods of Assessing Aerobic Intensity" section of that article is helpful for understanding how the whole MET-minutes thing might be calculated.

all y'all aint got nothing on me when it comes to slow ass climbing.
If I am understanding @Toshi correctly, you and I likely climb Belcher in the same number of MET-minutes. Nice work, fast guy!
 
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Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
all y'all aint got nothing on me when it comes to slow ass climbing.
If I am understanding @Toshi correctly, you and I likely climb Belcher in the same number of MET-minutes. Nice work, fast guy!
I would imagine that MET-minutes would increase with body fat percentage, as that unproductive mass would still need to be hauled up against gravity.

Therefore I would win this contest for slowness/using the most MET-minutes on a given climb, as it were. 30.5% fat as of July 11, 2019 (but hopefully well under 20% by Dec 18, 2019!).
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,424
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Exit, CO
I would imagine that MET-minutes would increase with body fat percentage, as that unproductive mass would still need to be hauled up against gravity.

Therefore I would win this contest for slowness/using the most MET-minutes on a given climb, as it were. 30.5% fat as of July 11, 2019 (but hopefully well under 20% by Dec 18, 2019!).
"Intensity can also be defined relative to fitness" -- though it says nothing about "fatness" I would suspect that strength-to-weight ratio would affect the calculations. :D
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
"Intensity can also be defined relative to fitness" -- though it says nothing about "fatness" I would suspect that strength-to-weight ratio would affect the calculations. :D

This indicates lower MET values in obese, but this wasn’t against gravity crucially. Gravity is a cruel mistress when fat.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
I don't think you're allowed to only believe the science you want to believe, doc.
Both make sense:

- most obese have less lean mass, which would lead to lower metabolic activity in general

but

- for a given task against gravity that thus scales with mass directly then being fat would require that much more energy

In conclusion who knows? I just am thankful for electricity in the face of Belcher.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
Will you be able to get by on just a handful of kare pan per week?
But back to the actual topic of this thread

:D

Fasting is cool, IMO, because it allows for the benefits of ketosis but doesn’t require one to eat strictly ketogenic a la our resident Wookiee. I can have kare pan now and then… and I will, because they are delicious.

In general I’m trying to stay at 100g carbs/day or less (not counting religiously, just trying to be reasonable), and, as I like to point out, my resting metabolic rate test done on this kind of diet at 19 hours fasted showed me to be burning 94% fat, 6% carbs. That’d be ketosis, in other words.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
40 hours into this fast at the moment. Feeling pretty good. I was a bit hungrier than normal at lunch and dinner times yesterday, but quelled it at the latter with some coffee. For the record I drank about 6 oz of coffee, that portion of which had about 1/2 a tbsp of MCT oil in it, because gotta rev up those ketones.

Onto the rest of my week's plan:

Wednesday: eating dinner for sure, maybe lunch if good
Thursday: eating lunch and dinner (latter most likely another Edwards Meats ribeye shared with the kids)
Friday: not eating
Saturday: eating lunch and dinner (ribeye 3 of 4 from the batch)
Sunday: eating lunch and dinner (ribeye 4 of 4)
(Next) Monday onwards: Going to do another extended fast, playing the length by ear based off how I feel during it
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
31,825
3,909
Have you ever tried lardo? You should try lardo... :drool:
I think I'll throw in a pack or two of this my next Snake River Farms order. Not lardo but that does look like some seriously fine bacon:




Snake River Farms traditional thick cut bacon is lightly cured and smoked over real hard wood. We start with the highest quality 100% Kurobuta (Berkshire) pork belly for flavorful and succulent bacon that will make friends and influence people.