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Intermittent and extended fasting

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Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,763
147
Bay Area, California
I'm taking a brief hiatus from fasting after hitting a plateau hard at the start of this year. I've lost about 29.2 lbs, my goal was 30, but fuck I can't seem to lose another 8 tenths. I've actually gained 5 lbs in like two weeks without changing my diet, fasting or eating habits, so I think something is going on with my digestion and I need to normalize for a bit. Maybe a couple weeks off then back on the diet, as it has seemed to work very well for me for a variety of reasons...
Were you doing a 16/8 fast 7 days a week? Good job on the weight loss!
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
17,063
1,568
01776
Thanks. I have been doing 5;2 for a year. Started Jan 4. I had surgery in November which seemed to fuck everything up, but then after recovery I started losing again only to plateau in Feb. Again, I feel like I ate a 48oz ribeye and it's just sitting in my colon, so maybe I've got a parasite or something.
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
52,567
5,089
In a van.... down by the river
Thanks. I have been doing 5;2 for a year. Started Jan 4. I had surgery in November which seemed to fuck everything up, but then after recovery I started losing again only to plateau in Feb. Again, I feel like I ate a 48oz ribeye and it's just sitting in my colon, so maybe I've got a parasite or something.
Goddammit. Now I'm hungry for ribeye...
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,763
147
Bay Area, California
Thanks. I have been doing 5;2 for a year. Started Jan 4. I had surgery in November which seemed to fuck everything up, but then after recovery I started losing again only to plateau in Feb. Again, I feel like I ate a 48oz ribeye and it's just sitting in my colon, so maybe I've got a parasite or something.
Are you doing a high protein/low carb diet, or just limiting your calorie intake? I know when I have a heavy week of a mostly protein diet & nothing moving as I'd like, I'll go out for Mexican food on a Friday or Saturday night. Beers, tequila, chips/guac and whatever else will fit, gets me going quite nicely the following morning. Rinse & repeat. Then again a 48oz ribeye does sound good!
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
18,149
5,931
behind you, don't wait up.
I'm taking a brief hiatus from fasting after hitting a plateau hard at the start of this year. I've lost about 29.2 lbs, my goal was 30, but fuck I can't seem to lose another 8 tenths. I've actually gained 5 lbs in like two weeks without changing my diet, fasting or eating habits, so I think something is going on with my digestion and I need to normalize for a bit. Maybe a couple weeks off then back on the diet, as it has seemed to work very well for me for a variety of reasons...
what about adding or increasing your exercise, and returning to a healthy diet?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
17,063
1,568
01776
Are you doing a high protein/low carb diet, or just limiting your calorie intake? I know when I have a heavy week of a mostly protein diet & nothing moving as I'd like, I'll go out for Mexican food on a Friday or Saturday night. Beers, tequila, chips/guac and whatever else will fit, gets me going quite nicely the following morning. Rinse & repeat. Then again a 48oz ribeye does sound good!
On my 2 days, I eat less than 600 calories. I usually skip breakfast and eat something exceptionally small- a cup of light soup or crudite and hummus. On my 5 days I eat whatever I want. It is entirely possible or likely that I have simply been overindulging in microbrew on some of those nights.

what about adding or increasing your exercise, and returning to a healthy diet?
Honestly, that might be why I'm plateauing. I tend to notice a brief plateau as I build up the "miles" but then I start losing again. It hasn't really happened in the last month, but I might also be reaching equilibrium....maybe I'm building muscle as fast as I'm losing weight, and can't build more muscle without putting more weight on. While I really want to hit my weight goal, I'm also happy having lost 4" off the waist, 25 comfortable pounds, and being way stronger than I was when I started....
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,763
147
Bay Area, California
On my 2 days, I eat less than 600 calories. I usually skip breakfast and eat something exceptionally small- a cup of light soup or crudite and hummus. On my 5 days I eat whatever I want. It is entirely possible or likely that I have simply been overindulging in microbrew on some of those nights.



Honestly, that might be why I'm plateauing. I tend to notice a brief plateau as I build up the "miles" but then I start losing again. It hasn't really happened in the last month, but I might also be reaching equilibrium....maybe I'm building muscle as fast as I'm losing weight, and can't build more muscle without putting more weight on. While I really want to hit my weight goal, I'm also happy having lost 4" off the waist, 25 comfortable pounds, and being way stronger than I was when I started....
Unfortunately the beers don't help. I stoped drinking all together on the weekdays & keep it to about 1200-1800 calories a day. Whats interesting, since I've been hitting the weights harder 6-7 days a week, I haven't lost any weight but dropped from a 36 waist to a 34 & gained muscle weight. I'm about 215lbs now @ 6'. When I was working out 2-4 times a week and not watching my diet my heaviest was 210lbs, but felt lethargic. Back in 2015 I did the South Beach diet and dropped down to 178lbs. I'm not even noticing the extra weight this time around, its kinda cool.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
I’m going to break my fast tomorrow morning at 60 hours. Food sounds good so I shall eat.

In other news, amidst all this madness I convinced my wife to try the CGM! The sensor is warming up now, having been inserted in her arm. I’m curious to see how she responds to carbs: family history of type 2 diabetes and a borderline A1C of 5.6%.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
31,763
147
Bay Area, California
I’m going to break my fast tomorrow morning at 60 hours. Food sounds good so I shall eat.

In other news, amidst all this madness I convinced my wife to try the CGM! The sensor is warming up now, having been inserted in her arm. I’m curious to see how she responds to carbs: family history of type 2 diabetes and a borderline A1C of 5.6%.
Is she doing the IFD too or just you? Curious to see it that would have any impact on her fasting glucose levels.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
Is she doing the IFD too or just you? Curious to see it that would have any impact on her fasting glucose levels.
She's doing 16-24 hours pretty routinely now and has done 42 a few times.

Turns out she has impaired glucose tolerance! This in delayed response to Thai food + 8 Thin Mints, I believe.



The gap in the data was when I turned off the phone and the receiver to stop the (reactive) urgent low alert that can't be muted.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
That sensor went bad after two days. Dexcom’s warranty replacement arrived and is now installed in her arm. Perfect timing since it’ll finish warming up in two hours, prior to another round of Thai food!
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
17,063
1,568
01776
so I quit fasting as not having the distraction of work made it really difficult to just hang around my chidlren (who eat every 5 minutes) and not go crazy.

My wife and I are trying a 16:8 every day fasting regimen. I think it's going to help cause I fucking snack like a champ between 8 and 12. So, I cut out the late night booze/snacks and second breakfast/elevensies. I think it will work, and I still get to eat and snack for the 8 hours between 12-8. We'll see.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
I've settled in to a 16-18 hour daily routine. Lots of n-3 (salmon and fish oil alike), minimizing n-6 as usual, bulletproof coffee here and there, and almost daily zone 2 exercise time.

This seems to keep me stable or even perhaps trending a bit down per day. I'm still 1.5 lbs or so up from my January baseline.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
18,149
5,931
behind you, don't wait up.
I've settled in to a 16-18 hour daily routine. Lots of n-3 (salmon and fish oil alike), minimizing n-6 as usual, bulletproof coffee here and there, and almost daily zone 2 exercise time.

This seems to keep me stable or even perhaps trending a bit down per day. I'm still 1.5 lbs or so up from my January baseline.
I'm surprised by that last sentence. Are you saying that after months and months of fasting, all the effort, you have not decreased your body mass? If not what's the point or benefit of this whole exercise?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
I'm surprised by that last sentence. Are you saying that after months and months of fasting, all the effort, you have not decreased your body mass? If not what's the point or benefit of this whole exercise?
From July/August through January I dropped ~45 lbs. Since January I've been basically stable. Body has decided this new weight is something it wants to defend.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
ok. that's huge. what's next, some weight training? moar pedaling?
I'm trying to get regular zone 2 fake miles in on the Peloton to get a good base for my mitochondria. My bike commute also serves well for this. Do enough of it and one's body gets more efficient at fat oxidation at all effort levels.

See this and the linked-within case study:


Then on top of that my mountain biking/"biking" is just for fun, the zone 3-5 time at the top of the pyramid that should have the zone 2 base much broader at the bottom.

Re zone 3-5 time on the e-bike, see the HR data for the segments here (160 bpm up Infierno!):

 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
18,149
5,931
behind you, don't wait up.
My heart is healthy, my stress tests and echo from 5 years ago showed no concerns other than a weird electrical thing that got me to see the doc in the first place. (as the Dr said, its the wiring not plumbing) I have stage 2 hypertension which is well treated.

I often ping off 180bpm when climbing tough sections around here. At near 51 years old, is that a risk in your opinion?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
Nah, that wouldn't worry me. Some people run higher than would be expected, and 180 bpm is not, say, 230.

Lowering insulin levels through some fasting (like 16-18 hours, not even the long crazy ones) might help with hypertension, btw. But I won't dwell on that else @Full Trucker will get all up in arms. :D
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
6,796
3,992
My heart is healthy, my stress tests and echo from 5 years ago showed no concerns other than a weird electrical thing that got me to see the doc in the first place. (as the Dr said, its the wiring not plumbing) I have stage 2 hypertension which is well treated.

I often ping off 180bpm when climbing tough sections around here. At near 51 years old, is that a risk in your opinion?
Whereas nowadays I can just about get to mid-150's when I'm absolutely redlined.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
Whereas nowadays I can just about get to mid-150's when I'm absolutely redlined.
What’s your resting heart rate these days? 40s? Mine is lower 50s to upper 40s spending on the day even at my very modest level of conditioning.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
6,796
3,992
What’s your resting heart rate these days? 40s? Mine is lower 50s to upper 40s spending on the day even at my very modest level of conditioning.
Probably around 50ish, my max was never super high even 10 years ago when I was racing all over the place. It's probably dropped about 10bpm since then, but I don't know if altitude has impacted it too.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
17,063
1,568
01776
back on the wagon...the 16:8 didn't work for me- no cream in my coffee and no drinking was...less than agreeable, and I saw no results. The good news is that I'm better at fasting so my 2 days are completely food free, rather than the small meals I had before. Couple pounds came off quick, but this works well for me balance wise so I might stick with it even when I reach equilibrium.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
I've settled on at least 14 hours of fasting (does it even count when that short?), often going 18, and my usual low to moderate carb, low omega-6, high meat diet. And the net result is that I feel pretty good and am weight-stable.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
17,063
1,568
01776
I've never been able to figure that out with "time-restricted eating". Are you really fasting if it's 16 hours? Are you really fasting if you're really just skipping breakfast? Do you see the same benefits of a true fast if you're doing it every day for a shorter period of time?

Right now I stop eating at around 8 or 10pm, then fast through 6-7am 2 days later. So, it's like 32h. Your suggestion of salt pills has helped to keep the migraines at bay...I take one in the morning right after my double espresso and drink water for much of the day. If I start to feel dizzy or lightheaded, I take another pill or eat a pickle (honestly!) and that seems to return me to normal. Otherwise, I eat nothing with calories. My appetite control is amazing...a year ago I couldn't make it until 10am on a fast day without craving SOMETHING to eat. Now I wake up 32h after eating anything and am like "I could go a little longer". It's a good feeling.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232
Extended open ended fast has begun!

0.5 hrs fasted, first update.

Last supper, to to speak: 10 meaty innards-only of beef bulgogi pot stickers, a strong bulletproof coffee w/86% Ghiradelli squares x 2 melted in, a few bites of ice cream.

Energy: 12/10, wheee
Clarity: Fine
General: Coffee-colonic reflex confirmed as intact
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
52,567
5,089
In a van.... down by the river
Extended open ended fast has begun!

0.5 hrs fasted, first update.

Last supper, to to speak: 10 meaty innards-only of beef bulgogi pot stickers, a strong bulletproof coffee w/86% Ghiradelli squares x 2 melted in, a few bites of ice cream.

Energy: 12/10, wheee
Clarity: Fine
General: Coffee-colonic reflex confirmed as intact
bunniesweed.jpg
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
10,169
174
Hypernormality
Came here for this. There’s a piece in the NYT saying ‘it doesn’t work’ but also that the cohort skip breakfast. I always understood that it was important to have a breakfast to start your metabolism in the AM and thus actually get your body burning stuff, especially in is situation. Start the fire and make your body feed it with fat.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
17,063
1,568
01776
what is "negative RCT"?

One thing about time restricted eating that didn't work for me is that I tended to get very hungry by noon, then once the cuffs were off, I'd stuff my face. If I had a restricted, normal diet then it probably would have been more productive. Also, I think you really need to push into 18:6 territory for that kind of "fasting" to work. Then you're burning up your glucose stores and getting a more effective fast.

All in all, I think it depends on what you value and how your body works to make it happen. For me, I can condense my suffering into about 36h and then rip beers with abandon on my days off. I know if I had a healthier diet with no snacks, I'd lose weight much faster...but yeah taco bell.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,981
3,232




Not fasting related, per se, but tangentially related. We had takeout from a good local Asian fusion restaurant, so not low carb. Soup dumplings, pork belly buns, pot stickers, a green curry over rice, etc. Also one strong alcoholic drink for each of the adults.

This meal was finished at 6:15 PM.

First CGM curve is my response to this style of meal. 128 mg/dL peak and then calmed down.

Second CGM curve is my wife’s response to this meal. Delayed 188 mg/dL peak and long plateau before and after!

This shows that a single fingerstick datum for pre-diabetics such as my wife is nigh useless.
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