[ohio]

Assuming it could be made fully secure, or at least as secure as absentee ballots (and since there are internet ID systems robust enough for banking/credit institutions and national security, I'm guessing it can be done), would you support internet-based voting?

I think it would have a tremendous impact on voter turnout, especially among young voters.

The only negative is the negative that always comes from making voting easier... less active/informed voters make it to the polls, and those that put the time and effort into being informed and getting to the polls are "disenfranchised."

[Side note: CA allows anyone to get an absentee ballot... when you register, you can sign up to get one automatically for every election. It's fantastic and I think at minimum every state should allow this. I voted yesterday]

 

[Upgr8r]

I'm a permanent absentee voter in CA and I love it. If they could do web based voting I'd be all over it

 

[jimmydean]

I did a paper on this during my undergrad in '04. If you think the current process is secure, check out Hacking Democracy. Without much effort at all you could make it at least as secure as '04 was.

 

[$tinkle]

a poll about polling.

deep

ed: #2 here

 

[Arkayne]

Someone will find a way to screw with it just like the Omaha Steaks $25 deal.

 

[Westy]

The actual level of security matters little. What would be more important is the level of confidence the public has in it. Even if it was 100% secure I wouldn't want it if a good portion of the public thought it was a scam and every election had the taint of conspiracy theorists.

 

[kidwoo]

Voting should be more involved than walking to the fridge and getting a beer.

Not difficult but not something you'd do side by side with a 'lolzor' either.


It should be an activity of the interested.

 

[jimmydean]

Voting should be more involved than walking to the fridge and getting a beer.

Not difficult but not something you'd do side by side with a 'lolzor' either.


It should be an activity of the interested.

Oregon is all vote by mail and it seems to work. It's a lot cheaper and a lot less overhead than having to put up expensive machines in random locations and make people wait in a line.

At the very least they should make the mail in ballot standard issue. It raises money for the post office, so that's good too, right?

 

[Defenestrated]

Hahaha the internet is not a safe medium for such things to be honest...

 

[kidwoo]

Oregon is all vote by mail and it seems to work. It's a lot cheaper and a lot less overhead than having to put up expensive machines in random locations and make people wait in a line.

At the very least they should make the mail in ballot standard issue. It raises money for the post office, so that's good too, right?

I'd be more comfortable with this than internet voting.

You don't start mailing things out of boredom or as a side effect of wacking to porn.

It's an activity you set out to do. Which is what I think it should be because the people that will, are more likely to be the people who are informed.

 

[RenegadeRick]

Unless you get back a receipt showing who you voted for, vote by mail can be compromised. So could early voting, and provisional ballots are already uncounted. Then even if you did get a receipt, there is still no way of knowing for sure that your vote is actually included in the totals.

Having a way to verify at any time, after the fact, that your vote was counted and who you voted for... now that would put trust in the system.

This is the kind of thing that a secure open-source voting system could provide. I am all for it. But it would have to be open source and externally and independently audited.

Any secretive closed source system managed by whatever corporation gave the biggest campaign contribution to the powers-that-be would be unacceptable.

 

[ohio]

Having a way to verify at any time, after the fact, that your vote was counted and who you voted for... now that would put trust in the system.

So you're saying absentee ballots should replace Diebold.

 

[jimmydean]

Unless you get back a receipt showing who you voted for, vote by mail can be compromised.

Watch Hacking Democracy, seriously. They will give yo a receipt that says X, the screen says X, but the print out from the main system shows Y. They built an algorithm that did a sudo random conversion.

10 people voted, 7 for X and 3 for Y, the end result was 6 votes for Y and 4 votes for X.

 

[kykona]

this poll is a joke right???

If it's not... you HAVE to be kidding me (although I have heard that they are 'looking' into this 'option' on the radio).

First off, no matter HOW "secure" this type of system would be, there would be someone who could break it. Just think about the e-fame some hacker would get for ruining our election.... it would be worldwide...

Not to mention said hackers spend a lot of their day hacking meaningless things anyway... once something worthwhile comes along someone / some group is going to jump on the opportunity to be the first to "crack" the election...

This is a terrible idea... there is enough voter fraud already. I'm perfectly fine with 120% of america's eligible voters voting.... 300% and I start to worry....

horse and buggy for me. way to make the sensible option seem "like you're not cool enough"

 

[jimmydean]

You don't start mailing things out of boredom or as a side effect of wacking to porn.

You don't? :huh:

 

[dante]

First off, no matter HOW "secure" this type of system would be, there would be someone who could break it. Just think about the e-fame some hacker would get for ruining our election.... it would be worldwide...

oh I don't know, a Ron Paul presidency couldn't be *that* bad....

 

[jimmydean]

First off, no matter HOW "secure" this type of system would be, there would be someone who could break it. Just think about the e-fame some hacker would get for ruining our election.... it would be worldwide...

You talk like this wasn't a possibility in the '04 election with the Diebold machines. The best hacks are the ones that people don't know about.

 

[narlus]

You don't start mailing things out of boredom or as a side effect of wacking to porn.

that's what the voting booth curtain is for, right? right?!?

 

[kykona]

oh I don't know, a Ron Paul presidency couldn't be *that* bad....

im guessing you're the idiot that voted for this....

way to make useless comments. Is this website full of you guys??

"you're a racist because you dont vote for obama"

"you're an idiot because I am tolerant and pro diversity, yet if someone disagrees with me and doesnt mirror my views they are wrong"

I'm voting for bob barr because my candidate is not available. I refuse to vote for someone I dont agree with (BOTH candidates). The current election is nothing but theatrics. We have a white male io one party who chose a white female to steal the female votes from the upset hillary voters.

We had a black man and a white woman in one party running against each other, this was an obvious attempt to determine the largest percentage of said base.

Neither candidate has a good plan, and both are going to be bad for our country. I do feel McCain is going to hurt the economy more than obama, as I feel like our taxes are not high enough. I dont think Obama knows what he is doing, and I think he will raise taxes too much. I also do not support increased tarrifs and extreme taxes in times of recession.

Therefore, bob barr gets my vote. His pluses are... Welfare reform, push for legalization of certain prohibited drugs, and smaller government.

You guys make it so hard to stay here... you're like the emo fags I had to deal with in highschool..... except the only other choices I have online is pinkbike or mtbr.... I dont like either one.

 

[kykona]

You talk like this wasn't a possibility in the '04 election with the Diebold machines. The best hacks are the ones that people don't know about.

which is why acorn fails. there are attempts on both sides all the time.


and that comment is ignorant. Some nerd who has nothing going in his life, making 8 dollars an hour (if he has a job) is going to take a lot of pride being recognized world wide for being "The guy that ruined the american elections"

Even if it was able to be fixed, the messups would require another election.

Just look at the kids who commit columbine-esque acts. What do they get afterwards? Recognition. even if they arent alive after it, and they know they will get it, therefore they do these stupid acts.

 

[sanjuro]

Yes, I want Russian hackers to detemine who becomes the next President.

 

[kykona]

Yes, I want Russian hackers to detemine who becomes the next President.

it wouldnt determine the next president. why would you imply that I meant this??? This type of attack would not determine the next president... what it WOULD do is require another election, as noone would be sure if their vote was counted or not... Way to go.

 

[kidwoo]

im guessing you're the idiot that voted for this....

way to make useless comments. Is this website full of you guys?? .

Search the username n8

"you're a racist because you dont vote for obama"

"you're an idiot because I am tolerant and pro diversity, yet if someone disagrees with me and doesnt mirror my views they are wrong".

How much of a difference is there between 'wrong' and 'incorrect?'

Like this for instance.....

I do feel McCain is going to hurt the economy more than obama, as I feel like our taxes are not high enough. I dont think Obama knows what he is doing, and I think he will raise taxes too much.

So you think they're not high enough yet criticize obama for wanting to raise taxes (something highly unlikely unless you're a bizillionare anyway). So not only are you incorrect, you're seemingly contradicting yourself.

I'm voting for bob barr because my candidate is not available. I refuse to vote for someone I dont agree with (BOTH candidates).

I don't know what it is with people having to agree with someone 100% to get their oh so cherished one vote. The two are pretty different. Your Barr vote will go in the trash and one of the other two will get elected. It's okay to be stubborn, but don't pretend like you're taking any kind of meaningful stance on anything.

You guys make it so hard to stay here... you're like the emo fags I had to deal with in highschool..... except the only other choices I have online is pinkbike or mtbr.... I dont like either one.[/

And can it you whiney little bltch. You're the one crying like a little emo fag

 

[sanjuro]

it wouldnt determine the next president. why would you imply that I meant this??? This type of attack would not determine the next president... what it WOULD do is require another election, as noone would be sure if their vote was counted or not... Way to go.

I was ignoring you until now.

There has never been a "second" election day. To have one would mean disaster, a total loss in confidence in our electoral system.

States take years to prepare for election day. You don't just have a second election day because the first one failed.

 

[kykona]

Search the username n8




How much of a difference is there between 'wrong' and 'incorrect?'

Like this for instance.....




So you think they're not high enough yet criticize obama for wanting to raise taxes (something highly unlikely unless you're a bizillionare anyway). So not only are you incorrect, you're seemingly contradicting yourself.



I don't know what it is with people having to agree with someone 100% to get their oh so cherished one vote. The two are pretty different. Your Barr vote will go in the trash and one of the other two will get elected. It's okay to be stubborn, but don't pretend like you're taking any kind of meaningful stance on anything.






And can it you whiney little bltch. You're the one crying like a little emo fag

Actually, maybe you need the difference between raised and raised TOO MUCH pointed out. there is a difference in raising taxes 5 percent and 20 percent. I'm not going to let this forum drift from the original topic though.

My vote isnt going to the trash, after all, I am still voting. And I dont agree with Barr either, I just agree with more of his topics. I dont care if he cant win, I'd rather have my vote "thrown away" than be part of the reason the country crumbles.

And I'm not whining, I am just fed up with the pseudo-intellectuals on this board. There is more contradiction in some of the statements on this forum than in the bible...

As for the "n8" comment, he isnt a racist, but he's pretty messed up. The way you view n8 is the way halfway reasonable people would view some of the posted comments towards him...

 

[kykona]

I was ignoring you until now.

There has never been a "second" election day. To have one would mean disaster, a total loss in confidence in our electoral system.

States take years to prepare for election day. You don't just have a second election day because the first one failed.

Thanks! I'm glad my ONE POST got your attention!!!

Are you that stupid that you feel like a 300-1000% turnout (lowball estimate) would just be "worked around," ESPECIALLY with the people we would have in office??? come on now. With the "prime specimens" in office I Wouldnt doubt a second election with an online voting option again!

How are you people so naive??? People hack into the stupidest **** for the stupidest reasons (modded game systems) (modded iphones)... Just think if the election was able to be hacked...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Are sandy vags' handed out when newly registering?

 

[binary visions]

kykona: have a f**king modicum of respect for the people you are arguing with or excuse yourself from this forum.

 

[kidwoo]

Actually, maybe you need the difference between raised and raised TOO MUCH pointed out. there is a difference in raising taxes 5 percent and 20 percent. I'm not going to let this forum drift from the original topic though.

Okay......raised too much. On whom? So far all you've done is show that you likely don't understand what someone whom you're so against has really put forward. Right now you sound like a right wing talking point. You don't see this?*

Instead of throwing out generalizations, elaborate on what you think you know about obama's plan raising taxes TOO MUCH.

And I'm not whining, I am just fed up with the pseudo-intellectuals on this board. There is more contradiction in some of the statements on this forum than in the bible...

Then leave.

Or at the very minimum point them out and quit WHINING in generalities.

*see? like I just did

 

[kykona]

kykona: have a f**king modicum of respect for the people you are arguing with or excuse yourself from this forum.

Are you kidding me? Sounds like I hit a nerve, something must have been true . It's ok, your black hair and tight pants are cool. I apologize. The used is the best band ever, or are they too mainstream??

How have I not shown respect??? or are you just responding because my opinion is different than yours? Which would again put you into my list of stereotypes found on this forum....

My first point, when in doubt turn to accusations of racism, obviously doesnt play into this because you didnt call me a racist.

 

[kykona]

Okay......raised too much. On whom? So far all you've done is show that you likely don't understand what someone whom you're so against has really put forward. Right now you sound like a right wing talking point. You don't see this?

Instead of throwing out generalizations, elaborate on what you think you know about obama's plan raising taxes TOO MUCH.




Then leave.

Or at the very minimum point them out and quit WHINING in generalities.

I tried not to change the topic....
tax breaks for 50 percent of americans doesnt say much... they pay around 3% of total taxes.

I probably make as much as you do... difference??? I am in my second year of college, I make 30k, pre tax, part time.. (25 hrs / week)

I will get a tax cut.

I dont believe in taxing success, and by raising taxes too high, this is what you're doing, which will result in the rich closing shop. Which will result in the businesses closing, which will result in loss of jobs, which will result in the poor(those who work for the rich) becoming more poor.

Taxes are too low, they need to be raised.... slightly. It's a very finicky thing that I dont claim to know how to do. If obama, or mccain, would admit that they dont either, they would probably steal my vote.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

are You Kidding Me? Sounds Like I Hit A Nerve, Something Must Have Been True . It's Ok, Your Black Hair And Tight Pants Are Cool. I Apologize. The Used Is The Best Band Ever, Or Are They Too Mainstream??

How Have I Not Shown Respect??? Or Are You Just Responding Because My Opinion Is Different Than Yours? Which Would Again Put You Into My List Of Stereotypes Found On This Forum....

My First Point, When In Doubt Turn To Accusations Of Racism, Obviously Doesnt Play Into This Because You Didnt Call Me A Racist.

5... 4... 3...

 

[kidwoo]

tax breaks for 50 percent of americans doesnt say much... they pay around 3% of total taxes.

I probably make as much as you do... difference??? I am in my second year of college, I make 30k, pre tax, part time.. (25 hrs / week)

I will get a tax cut.

I dont believe in taxing success, and by raising taxes too high, this is what you're doing, which will result in the rich closing shop. Which will result in the businesses closing, which will result in loss of jobs, which will result in the poor(those who work for the rich) becoming more poor.

Taxes are too low, they need to be raised.... slightly. It's a very finicky thing that I dont claim to know how to do. If obama, or mccain, would admit that they dont either, they would probably steal my vote.

How many business owners do you think are millionaires? Because these are the ONLY people that will see tax increases. You think exxon-mobile is going to close up shop because its CEO has to pay more taxes? Because that's essentially the bracket that you're even talking about here.

I want you to tell ME, the exact numbers regarding obama's tax plan. For example specifically what income brackets will see a rise, which ones will see no change, and which ones will see a cut. And don't just recycle obama's 95% crap, I want you to tell me the breakdown. Because it's obvious you don't understand it at this point and it will at least make you look at it.

 

[ohio]

Actually, maybe you need the difference between raised and raised TOO MUCH pointed out. there is a difference in raising taxes 5 percent and 20 percent. I'm not going to let this forum drift from the original topic though.

How much do you think taxes should be raised? For whom? Why?

 

[binary visions]

How have I not shown respect???

Seriously?

this poll is a joke right???

im guessing you're the idiot that voted for this....<snip>

You guys make it so hard to stay here... you're like the emo fags I had to deal with in highschool.....

I am just fed up with the pseudo-intellectuals on this board.

Are you that stupid<snip>

How are you people so naive???

Your assessment about me is incredibly off-base and your knee-jerk pigeonholing of everyone in this forum is ridiculous.

You know what? Nevermind. Your posting privileges in the political forum have just been revoked.

 

[$tinkle]

How many business owners do you think are millionaires? Because these are the ONLY people that will see tax increases.

from small business administration faq (and a more detailed table here)

A small business is an concern that is organized for profit, with a place of business in the United States, and which operates primarily within the United States or makes a significant contribution to the U.S. economy through payment of taxes or use of American products, materials or labor. Further, the concern cannot be dominant in its field, on a national basis. Finally, the concern must meet the numerical small business size standard for its industry. SBA has established a size standard for most industries in the U.S. economy. The most common size standards are as follow:

* 500 employees for most manufacturing and mining industries
* 100 employees for all wholesale trade industries
* $6.5 million for most retail and service industries
* $31 million for most general & heavy construction industries
* $13 million for all special trade contractors
* $0.75 million for most agricultural industries

About one-fourth of industries have a size standard that is different from these levels. They vary from $0.75 million to $32.5 million for size standards based on average annual revenues and from 100 to 1500 employees for size standards based on number of employees.

seems to me 75% of businesses are small business, and a significant number of those are above $250k in gross receipts (just think about payroll alone).

whadaya think?

 

[kidwoo]

Shuddup you, I wanted to hear it from him!!

*grumble*


But since you asked, how does personal income tax relate to a business's gross reciepts?
(semi-honest question)

 

[binary visions]

Aren't virtually all business operating expenses deductable? Thus income is not the same as gross receipts and you don't pay taxes on it?

I'm not 100% sure myself I just know that a lot of operating expenses are deductable and it was my impression that it would not affect a lot of small businesses because their actual net income is much, much lower than their gross receipts.

 

[$tinkle]

You know what? Nevermind. Your posting privileges in the political forum have just been revoked.

i'd rather you gagged him w/ your vicuna-woven eyebrows, but whatever.

 

[ohio]

You know what? Nevermind. Your posting privileges in the political forum have just been revoked.

Can't we give him a pass, just so we can exercise his need for his namesake KY?