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Introducing the Appalache Real, reborn Balfa BB7

hellonasty

Monkey
Mar 8, 2005
208
0
MSA
So here it is, the newly design frame from Appalache bikes, a company formed by former Balfa designers and welders. The new frame will be lighter and have a 150mm back-end. That's how much I know for now on. Its name is the Appalache Real.

So, what are your comments??
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
hellonasty said:
So here it is, the newly design frame from Appalache bikes, a company formed by former Balfa designers and welders. The new frame will be lighter and have a 150mm back-end. That's how much I know for now on. Its name is the Appalache Real.

So, what are your comments??
Looks like a 135mm rear end to me...
 

DHS

Friendly Neighborhood Pool Boy
Apr 23, 2002
5,100
0
Sand, CA
135mm hub, 73 BB shell, 9 in. travel, 16.5 chainstays, 14.75 BB height, frame weight with a steel spring is around 10 pounds.
 

ncrider

Turbo Monkey
Aug 15, 2004
1,566
0
Los Angeles
looks nice, but I'd like to see a cleaner gusset at the top tube. I don't like that "slap a piece of metal on and weld it" gusset look.
 

DHS

Friendly Neighborhood Pool Boy
Apr 23, 2002
5,100
0
Sand, CA
eh i see that its a clean route for brake housing and such. but i would so rip that off with it being on the top of the top tube
 

mikeG

Chimp
Nov 14, 2004
77
0
Menlo Park, CA
I think the rear would be extremely stiff. I have an 04 2 Step and the rear end doesn't move. I love their bikes and I am happy to see that their designs are not dead.
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,419
137
Whistler BC
well, 4 seasons on my '02 bb7 and I've yet to notice a hint of non-stiffness....and that's with tonnes of high speed gnarly stuff and pretty much beating down the thing non-stop here in whist. for the past 3 seasons.....I did blow out the bearings first season, but I also let the bolts get a bit loose....they've been fine ever since I replaced them......takes a serious beating...I love it....
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
The Kadvang said:
Steel is real.
No, it's not.

And I'm more concerned with the erector-set nature of the rear end and rocker assembly. Bolted joints = flex. And the main pivot doesn't look overly beefy either.
 

The Kadvang

I rule
Apr 13, 2004
3,501
0
six five oh
Bulldog said:
No, it's not.

And I'm more concerned with the erector-set nature of the rear end and rocker assembly. Bolted joints = flex. And the main pivot doesn't look overly beefy either.
For someone who hasn't ridden one, you certainly have quite the e-speculation thing down pat. All the BB7s I've ridden were flex free, and the design looks almost identical.
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,160
0
at the end of the longest line
Bulldog said:
No, it's not.

And I'm more concerned with the erector-set nature of the rear end and rocker assembly. Bolted joints = flex. And the main pivot doesn't look overly beefy either.
actually bolted sections can be alot stiffer than welded parts, design dependant of course (and perhaps heavier). Bolted sections are pre-loaded and welded sections are not. Besides, notice how most of our components are bolted together? :rolleyes:
 

Fulton

Monkey
Nov 9, 2001
825
0
bike looks sweet, i like it more than the original. much cleaner. just wish it had a 1.5 head tube, and thru axle rear.
 

Munster

Monkey
Sep 5, 2001
166
0
Eastern Canada
My '01 BB7 is still going strong. Simple design that works well. I'm glad to see them making bikes again. I too would like to see a through axle rear, QR's don't belong on a DH bike.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
Bulldog said:
No, it's not.

And I'm more concerned with the erector-set nature of the rear end and rocker assembly. Bolted joints = flex. And the main pivot doesn't look overly beefy either.
Have you seen how wide the pivot is on the bb7? It's like 5 inches wide! The pivot is not the area that would be causing the most flex, it would be the swingarm. Steel is flexy, that's just the nature of the material. Also, the bb7 and this new design have standard dropouts, which won't be as stiff as a 12mm axle, but will be lightweight, which appears to be the goal for this new frame.
 

loulou

Chimp
Nov 2, 2004
23
0
montreal
steel, regardless of alloy or temper, is about 3 times stiffer than any aluminum...
Believe me the Réal rear is stiff!
 

loulou

Chimp
Nov 2, 2004
23
0
montreal
I don't think much of the 1.5 headtube, but time will tell...
As for the rear spacing, we are planning a 150 x 12 swing arm.
I like narrow cranks but if 150x12 is widely adopted, we'll follow.
Again thanks everyone for the encouragement/advice, kind or not!
 

The Kadvang

I rule
Apr 13, 2004
3,501
0
six five oh
zedro said:
actually bolted sections can be alot stiffer than welded parts, design dependant of course (and perhaps heavier). Bolted sections are pre-loaded and welded sections are not. Besides, notice how most of our components are bolted together? :rolleyes:
Yess... zedro has my back.
 

Bulldog

Turbo Monkey
Sep 11, 2001
1,009
0
Wisconsin
zedro said:
actually bolted sections can be alot stiffer than welded parts, design dependant of course (and perhaps heavier). Bolted sections are pre-loaded and welded sections are not. Besides, notice how most of our components are bolted together? :rolleyes:
Didn't you argue the other side when it came to old Marzocchi forks with bolted arches and crowns vs the new one piece and press-fit technology?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Bulldog said:
Didn't you argue the other side when it came to old Marzocchi forks with bolted arches and crowns vs the new one piece and press-fit technology?
There's a difference between stronger and lighter vs. stiffer.

By the way I completely disagree with BOTH of you that bolted is any more or less stiff than welding. Loose bolts are a very different thing than flex, and flex/stiffness comes from the whole member, not just the interface of two parts.

And I also completely disagree with wheelieman's claim that steel in inherently flexy. That's (no offense) moronic. Steel is stiffer (modulus, not specific stiffness) than both titanium and aluminum (by a long shot). That's one of the reasons why steel tubes are such smaller diameter than aluminum or ti. See profile cranks as an example.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
ohio said:
There's a difference between stronger and lighter vs. stiffer.

By the way I completely disagree with BOTH of you that bolted is any more or less stiff than welding. Loose bolts are a very different thing than flex, and flex/stiffness comes from the whole member, not just the interface of two parts.

And I also completely disagree with wheelieman's claim that steel in inherently flexy. That's (no offense) moronic. Steel is stiffer (modulus, not specific stiffness) than both titanium and aluminum (by a long shot). That's one of the reasons why steel tubes are such smaller diameter than aluminum or ti. See profile cranks as an example.
You're right, flexy is not the right word. Because the "flexyness" of a material is obviously dependent on its shape, size etc... I am no metallurgical engineer but I have always thought that because steel often bends before breaking (compared to aluminum), that this was somehow related to the "flex" characteristics of the material. Guess not.

Anyways, back to the bike. I think the steel swingarm is a great idea, no replaceable derailleur hanger to be concerned about, and if repair is ever needed it would be much easier than with aluminum.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,837
0
South Seattle
My balfa was a fun bike, but the whole pivot assembly could use some refinement.
Bent bolts, pivot bolts coming loose that required a socket to tighten, QR rear end, too linear shock rate....the list goes on.
While I like the design of the BB7 and the new bike, It doesn't look like they've addressed any of the issues the BB7 had.
 

Spitfired

Monkey
Jun 18, 2004
489
0
Rochester, NY
Right, I believe teh notion of steel being "flexy" is more of it being 'flexible". It has a higher modulus of elasticity in that it can move further before it permanently deforms. However, because of it's inherent strength (generally considered 3x that of aluminum, however 3x the weight) it takes a lot more to get it to move to begin with.
Hooray for into to materials tech!
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Spitfired said:
It has a higher modulus of elasticity in that it can move further before it permanently deforms.
While steel can be stressed further before it deforms, the modulus of elasticity is the STIFFNESS = how much it flexes under a given force (the answer is, not very much compared to other metals). What you're talking about above is yield stress.
 

manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,105
527
Nilbog
loulou said:
I don't think much of the 1.5 headtube, but time will tell...
But Why?!? I mean that is the single reason that would keep me away from that frame, im not much of a racer and looking at building a sold bike with the new 8" travis sc on the front of it for next season...dont you think that would be a killer setup for that :drool:

amazing bike eitherway
 

loulou

Chimp
Nov 2, 2004
23
0
montreal
it is true that if you have to have a single crown, then the 1.5 is justified.
But I have seen 7'' SC with 1.125 steerers, I dont know if they are good...
The pivot on the Appalache Réal is slightly changed; dia. went from 12 to 15mm, fixing bolts are M8 and the bearing tension washers are beefier.
It is an even more trouble free set up than before. Bent bolts and deformed cones were mostly caused by improper care; riding with loose bolts...