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Iran, Israel and the West

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,900
5
Hypernormality
So, you probably all saw this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5371437,00.html

Iran Leader Calls for Israel's Destruction

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared Wednesday that Israel is a ``disgraceful blot'' that should be ``wiped off the map'' - fiery words that Washington said underscores its concern over Iran's nuclear program.

Ahmadinejad's speech to thousands of students at a ``World without Zionism'' conference set a hard-line foreign policy course sharply at odds with that of his moderate predecessor, echoing the sentiments of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution.

The United States said Ahmadinejad's remarks show that Washington's fears about Iran's nuclear program are accurate.

``I think it reconfirms what we have been saying about the regime in Iran,'' White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters in Washington. ``It underscores the concerns we have about Iran's nuclear intentions.''

Ahmadinejad also condemned Iran's neighbors which seek to break new ground in their relations with Israel. ``Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,'' state-run television quoted him as saying.

Relations between Israel and several Persian Gulf states have been thawing amid Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in September. Bahrain announced in September it was ending a decades-old law banning trade ties with Israel. In October, Qatar said it was donating $6 million to help build a soccer stadium for a mixed Arab-Jewish team, the first such financial assistance by an Arab state for any town inside Israel.

Israel has been at the forefront of nations calling for an end to Iran's nuclear program, which the United States and many others in the West say is aimed at acquiring weapons of mass destruction. Iran insists the program is for generating electricity.

Referring to Palestinian suicide bomb attacks in Israel, Ahmadinejad said: ``there is no doubt that the new wave in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot from the face of the Islamic world.''

Ahmadinejad's speech came hours before a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up in the Israeli town of Hadera, killing five people. Iran aids several militant Palestinian groups, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, with support and training through proxies among Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas.

``Ahmadinejad has clearly declared the doctrine of his government,'' said Mohammad Sadeq Hosseini, an expert on Middle Eastern affairs. ``He is returning Iran to the revolutionary goals it was pursuing in the 1980s.'' (cut)
Despite what you probably think of my Politics, I do not have much love for Iran. This reversion to fairly extreme state Islamism (you may have noticed other things like Western films and haircuts being shunned by the leadership, and even banned in some places) is non-progressive and essentially just a backwards force in the world. (Much like George Bush!)

Iran is simply providing ammunition for those in Israel and the West who will use this to further their case for strikes or war against the 'nuclear threat' Iran now (doesn't actually yet) pose, and at the end of the day has made it more likely that a whole lot of innocent people are going to get killed.

On the other hand, it would seem that the new leadership does enjoy considerable popular support. If this is the case, what should be done about it? Can anything be realistically be done that doesn't involve armed interference?

Another thing to note is that the renewed aggression in Iran is apparently being reflected in the Israel/Palestine situation, which after a few months of very positive looking developments, has now seen it's first serious Palestinian suicide bomber, notably just hours after Ahmadinejad's speech. Iran is known to heavily support Hamas and these other groups and it now seems they may now be acting out the wishes of Iran rather than their local populous. If this is the case, it places Iran on even weaker ground. As much as I dislike Israel and it's policies, killing all Israelis and 'wiping Israel from the map' is not on.

What should the west do?
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,622
2
G14 Classified
Changleen said:
What should the west do?
Stop exporting poptarts to Iran.




Seriously though, I know jack isht about Middle Eastern affairs, to the point where I can offer no benefit whatsoever to a thread like this.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
5,461
244
Lima, Peru, Peru
Changleen said:
So, you probably all saw this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5371437,00.html



Despite what you probably think of my Politics, I do not have much love for Iran. This reversion to fairly extreme state Islamism (you may have noticed other things like Western films and haircuts being shunned by the leadership, and even banned in some places) is non-progressive and essentially just a backwards force in the world. (Much like George Bush!)

Iran is simply providing ammunition for those in Israel and the West who will use this to further their case for strikes or war against the 'nuclear threat' Iran now (doesn't actually yet) pose, and at the end of the day has made it more likely that a whole lot of innocent people are going to get killed.

On the other hand, it would seem that the new leadership does enjoy considerable popular support. If this is the case, what should be done about it? Can anything be realistically be done that doesn't involve armed interference?

Another thing to note is that the renewed aggression in Iran is apparently being reflected in the Israel/Palestine situation, which after a few months of very positive looking developments, has now seen it's first serious Palestinian suicide bomber, notably just hours after Ahmadinejad's speech. Iran is known to heavily support Hamas and these other groups and it now seems they may now be acting out the wishes of Iran rather than their local populous. If this is the case, it places Iran on even weaker ground. As much as I dislike Israel and it's policies, killing all Israelis and 'wiping Israel from the map' is not on.

What should the west do?
they openly want "nuclear power" and now this.... they are sooooooo gonna get messed up bad...
messing up with the buddies of the class bully.....:nope:
 

jaydee

Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
794
0
Victoria BC
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is definitely stirring the pot, as if it wasn't boiling over already. If the world thinks Iraq or Afghanistan are hotbeds of radical Islam fundamentalism, welcome to the place that invented it. Let's hope it's just typical political posturing and sword-rattling, but something tells me that radical Muslims like Ahmadinejad are feeling powerful with the impotence of their enemies in the face of terrorist tactics. I'm sure he believes that the US will stay out of any Iran/Israel conflict at this time, given the difficulties it is undergoing in Iraq. I wonder if Bush will move to support his Israeli allies if Iran follows up on its threats? If he does, this could be the jihad to end all jihads.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,900
5
Hypernormality
jaydee said:
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is definitely stirring the pot, as if it wasn't boiling over already. If the world thinks Iraq or Afghanistan are hotbeds of radical Islam fundamentalism, welcome to the place that invented it. Let's hope it's just typical political posturing and sword-rattling, but something tells me that radical Muslims like Ahmadinejad are feeling powerful with the impotence of their enemies in the face of terrorist tactics. I'm sure he believes that the US will stay out of any Iran/Israel conflict at this time, given the difficulties it is undergoing in Iraq. I wonder if Bush will move to support his Israeli allies if Iran follows up on its threats? If he does, this could be the jihad to end all jihads.
Sometimes I wish they'd just get it over and done with. As for Iran posturing vs. taking action, as I said, it would seem that they are becoming more active in supplying and co-ordinating Hamas and other Palestinian groups in their attacks on Israel now. I doubt that Iran would risk an out and out attack on Israel, but it remains to be seen how much Israel/US will tollerate increased Iranian support of their local enemies.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,243
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Changleen said:
Sometimes I wish they'd just get it over and done with. As for Iran posturing vs. taking action, as I said, it would seem that they are becoming more active in supplying and co-ordinating Hamas and other Palestinian groups in their attacks on Israel now. I doubt that Iran would risk an out and out attack on Israel, but it remains to be seen how much Israel/US will tollerate increased Iranian support of their local enemies.
In the end it is just rhetoric. Geography, technology and skill make it next to impossible for Iran to do anything about Israel. Iran would be the proverbally idiot bringing a knife to a gun fight in conflict with Israel. Ahmadinejad can run is mouth inciting whomever he wishes but he knows that all he can do to wipe Israel off the face of the earth is thru Palestinian suicide bombers. That isn't going to wipe Israel off the face of the map. All it does is end up with less Palestinians.

This goes back to what I've said before about the Arab world could truly give two sh!ts about the Palestinians. Abbas asks for money to rebuild Gaza from Arab nations and he gets nothing. He asks for help in quelling the terrorists groups by their supporters in Syria and Iran and nothing. The Palestinians are mutts to the rest of the Arab world. I truly believe that Israel cares more about them then their supposed brothers do.

At some point the Palestinians are going to realize this and stop allowing themselves to be pawns.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Tenchiro said:
End our reliance on petrol and give the middle east the finger?
I totaly agree with this one, but to play the other side of the coin what would happen to the middle east if they they couldn't sell their oil. Last I checked sandbox's werent that popular anymore. It would be like taking welfare away from the ghetto. SHizz would hit the fan
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Changleen said:
Sometimes I wish they'd just get it over and done with. .
WOW...................did that just come from you. It sucks to admit it but sometimes the only thing people understand is a good ol fashion ass whoopin. Ultimately someones got to go cause there never gonna get along. You ask me no one should be allowed to live in the holy land but the clergy, muslim, christian, jew, for 100yrs.
 

jaydee

Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
794
0
Victoria BC
DRB said:
In the end it is just rhetoric. Geography, technology and skill make it next to impossible for Iran to do anything about Israel. Iran would be the proverbally idiot bringing a knife to a gun fight in conflict with Israel. Ahmadinejad can run is mouth inciting whomever he wishes but he knows that all he can do to wipe Israel off the face of the earth is thru Palestinian suicide bombers. That isn't going to wipe Israel off the face of the map. All it does is end up with less Palestinians.
This is all true, unless Iran manages to develop nuclear weapons cability. Given their president and head radical's recent threats, I can't honestly believe that they would use nuclear technology just for electrical power and not for weapons. If that happens, you know Israel will quickly be all over eliminating that capability.

DRB said:
This goes back to what I've said before about the Arab world could truly give two sh!ts about the Palestinians. Abbas asks for money to rebuild Gaza from Arab nations and he gets nothing. He asks for help in quelling the terrorists groups by their supporters in Syria and Iran and nothing. The Palestinians are mutts to the rest of the Arab world. I truly believe that Israel cares more about them then their supposed brothers do.

At some point the Palestinians are going to realize this and stop allowing themselves to be pawns.
You're right. The rest of the Arab world loves to see the Palestinians blowing themselves up for Allah and taking a few Israelis along. If they actually supported the Palestinians, they'd have to deal with the Israelis themselves. Paradoxically, the Israelis are the only ones who actually tried to defuse the situation by surrendering Gaza. But I don't think Hamas will ever back off from the feud; they share the view that the only good Israeli is a dead Israeli, and now they're quite happy to have bases even closer to Israel.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,900
5
Hypernormality
Look what you get when your leader is crazy hate promoting fool:

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Business&loid=8.0.224391786&par=0

IRAN: AHMADINEJAD BLASTS STOCK EXCHANGE

Tehran, 31 Oct. (AKI) - An Iranian on-line daily has reported that the hardline president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is riled by the decline in the Tehran stock exchange and would have liked to opt for a drastic solution. “If it had been possible to hang a couple of people, the Tehran stock exchange would already have been put in order," said Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the daily rooz-on-line reports, quoting sources close to the president.
During his electoral campaign, Ahmadinejad had described investments in stocks and shares as "a game of chance, contrary to Islamic principles". The subsequent denials by the aides of the new president have done nothing to calm the waters and avoid an investor crisis of confidence.

The Tehran stock exchange has registered losses to the tune of 20 percent of its value over the past four weeks. From the election of Ahmadinejad in June until today, it has lost 40 per cent, largely due to the distrust of Iranian investors in the new government.

The foreign policy of the Ahmadinejad government, based on continuous threats against the international community, is at the root of investor fears, analysts say.
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,556
0
I'm homeless
ALEXIS_DH said:
they openly want "nuclear power" and now this.... they are sooooooo gonna get messed up bad...
messing up with the buddies of the class bully.....:nope:
If israel wanted to they could bully around the arab world. Remember if you **** with Israel you are ****ing with a country were evory 16 year old and older knows how to shoot, and evory 18 year old and older is a trained soldier

jaydee said:
This is all true, unless Iran manages to develop nuclear weapons cability. Given their president and head radical's recent threats, I can't honestly believe that they would use nuclear technology just for electrical power and not for weapons. If that happens, you know Israel will quickly be all over eliminating that capability.
I would put money on israel having a nuke or 2.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,243
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
TheMontashu said:
If israel wanted to they could bully around the arab world. Remember if you **** with Israel you are ****ing with a country were evory 16 year old and older knows how to shoot, and evory 18 year old and older is a trained soldier
The 18 year old soldiers aren't what scares the Arabs. Its the 26 year old pilots.

TheMontashu said:
I would put money on israel having a nuke or 2.
Try in excess of 200.