[roee]

Then where should they go? Should they all die just because no one wants them? Please don't go into the history and state that they could have just gone and become Egyptian, or Jordanian citizens because the issue is here and now...If Isreal goes and just blows Palestine into the dust then the US will have to cut military funding, which in my opinion is the only reason Sharon has not done it already.

No one will cut Israel's military funding because of two things:
1. The US uses funding (not just military) as a pressure tool to force Israel into things, like stopping the Falcon deal between Israel and China.
Israel in fact owes much to the US and acts accordingly.
2. Simply put, Israel and the US are in the very same boat, the war in Iraq just shows it's more true now than ever.
The US knows what kind of folks are in Hamas, etc, and happy to see Israel fighting them, as an example to the entire Muslim world.


**************************************
* a message by the "English for Roee" assocation *
**************************************
Perhaps I got carried away, as English is not my first language;
Can people please help me improve my way of expressing by explaining to me what are the correct semantics when coming to describe behavioral patterns so often found in the Muslim world? (I can bring examples)
I'd like to apologize for each and every racist comment I've made, and to assign myself a new vocabulary for use in such cases. Please help.

 

[jmvar]

Before I start, jmvar, being Jewish is not the same as being Zionist, Likud, pro-Israel, pro-Sharon, etc. If all arguments with your Jewish friends end the same way, I suggest you try to meet more Jews.

Ohio, thanks for clearing that up....

I completely agree with your statemnts and would be interested to see how many Isrealis feel the same way?

I think the most relevent example is the situation with Nelson Mandela. I heard him say once that in order to begin the peace process you must first completely forgive your enemy/opposition/etc. so that the communication can be opened up and effective. He stated that he had to govern along side the very party and people that had taken his freedom away from him. He knew that this was the only way that he was going to help his people.

 

[roee]

It's entertained what noble ideas people come up with when they don't need to face terror each and every day. Nelson Mandela? WTF?
The US suffered ONE, just ONE terror attack on its land and started a world wide rampage, which is far more violent than what Israel has ever done. Not that I'm complaining, someone must do the dirty work.
Lets see you deal with terror on a daily basis.
I was all pro-Oslo back in 1995, seemed like a new horizon for the area.
All your "racist" comments originate from the same ignorance of just not knowing Arabs. I know them. I live next to them. I KNOW what they are capable of, I KNOW how they treat each other.
Maybe someone who has fought in Iraq cares to come in and say how does this population seems to an American? I'm really curious.

So far, it were US officers who were sent here to learn how to deal with terrorists who embed themselves inside civil population with minimal casualities to both side, and not the opposite.

 

[ohio]

The US suffered ONE, just ONE terror attack on its land and started a world wide rampage, which is far more violent than what Israel has ever done.

See my post. There is almost nothing about our general course of action that I agree with. It's not my policy.

I was all pro-Oslo back in 1995, seemed like a new horizon for the area.
All your "racist" comments originate from the same ignorance of just not knowing Arabs. I know them. I live next to them. I KNOW what they are capable of, I KNOW how they treat each other.

See my post. I also lived next to them. Those that I lived and interacted with IN ISRAEL were outgoing, friendly, and peaceful. How well do you know them? Do you know their names? Have you ever shared a meal with them?

They are capable of horrible things? ALL humans are capable of horrible things.

 

[Silver]

All your "racist" comments originate from the same ignorance of just not knowing Arabs. I know them. I live next to them. I KNOW what they are capable of, I KNOW how they treat each other.

Yes, you keep telling us that.

A quote from Nietzsche seems appropriate here:

"He who fights monsters should look into it that he himself does not become a monster."

 

[roee]

ohio,

Of course they are not a homogenous group. I know some, I ate with some, it still doesn't change a thing. Next time you sit with one - any one - ask him about his opinion of his wife having a job.
Nice and outgoing as some of them are, at the current state of affairs in Israel, people are afraid to go near their villages. Especially after September 2000, when they used the Palestinians as an excuse to start violent riots. Trading with them came to a halt, and occasionally (every few months) you hear about a Jew who went to do business with them and got murdered.

People are different. People from different cultures behave differently. Nothing racist about this. If I called a tribe of cannibals "Barbarians", would you still be so upset?
And not even the entire tribe has to eat human flesh - lets assume one of them is vegeterian (and a proud gay, why not).
Are they still "Barbarians"? Yes, they are. As a group, they are.

And if I told you there are place occupied by people that will murder me on sight, how would you name these folks?
Recently, in an APC explosion in Gaza, the media showed pictures of locals playing soccer with the head of one of the soldiers who exploded.
Do you find it normal? Civilized?
Maybe we just operate by different standards of judgement.
Then it's very reassuring to know most of the American nation, including its current president, works by the same standards like me...
I want to see any of you smart***es walk into Gaza flying the American flag.
You'd be dead within seconds

 

[fluff]

that's very interesting about Jordan and immigration. I always thought the arab world wanted the palestinians to continue being a thorn to israel.

Dude, you need to do some more research on this whole issue. Please do not take roee's every word as gospel. It is true that Jordan does not want a large influx of Palestinian, and the reasons are interesting but I doubt roee will explain them correctly for you (there's a challenge).

It's a complex issue.

 

[roee]

fluff, what's with the negative attitude? I like bikes too, you know

Here is my best attempt:
The main reason Jordan doesn't want the Palestinians in it's territories is not because of their bad eating habits or anything, it's mainly because their nationallty was fueled by the ongoing conflict with Israel.
Such a population can lead to great interior instability in Jordan, as most of the kingdom's citizens are "Palestinians".
Furthermore, many of them are armed terrorists (now that's why Egypt didn't want them) who belong to several politic groups (Hamas, for example), and receive support and direction from abroad (Iran).
The Jordanian kingdom just doesn't want this kind of folks.
Why should it be accused in harboring terrorists and risking it's flaky internal stability?
For this reason they also expelled the leadership of the Hamas to Syria.

Here's a bonus fact: Did you know Egypt treated the Palestinians in the Gaza strip SO bad that back in the 50-60's, the Palestinians actually CHEERED the Israeli troops who passed through Gaza to fight the Egyptians?

The Middle East is a funny, bizzare place.

 

[LordOpie]

Please do not take roee's every word as gospel.

Gospel? Well, he is closer to being the messiah than jesus.

Hey roee, need any prophets?

Book of Roee... part 1, subsection A: He rode a bike. It was a fine bike. His bike even rode on water.

:evil:

 

[ohio]

ohio,

Next time you sit with one - any one - ask him about his opinion of his wife having a job.

Ask a promisekeeper (fundamentalist Christian sect) the same, and you'll get the same answer. It doesn't make either group murderers, barbarians, or sub-human.

These are the same Arabs that lived there when I was there a dozen years ago, yet obviously the situation is much different, much more dangerous. The same policies carried out, repeated, and escalated have made the situation continually worse. What makes you think that these same policies are suddenly, magically, going to make things better? You're chasing a wolf towards the edge of a cliff you'll both fall off of.

 

[ohio]

Here's a bonus fact: Did you know Egypt treated the Palestinians in the Gaza strip SO bad that back in the 50-60's, the Palestinians actually CHEERED the Israeli troops who passed through Gaza to fight the Egyptians?

Didn't take long to burn up THAT goodwill, did it?

The fact that US policy is now an analogue to Israel's SHOULD be terrifying to our goverment. Do we actually WANT to be in a similar cluster****?

 

[roee]

ohio,

This wife example was just that, an example.
What about "blood revenge"? It's a pretty common practice among them
around here.
If one accidently like runs over another fella, the tribe of the victim (they are a tribal society) will go and butch a guy from the offending dude's tribe.
It's of course a gross oversimplification, and in reality things are much more
bloody than this But it's still a practice you hear about.
Or a brother who kills his sister because she hurt the tribe dignity by sleeping
with someone. You hear about that too.
If we stop the name calling for a second, I think that if you do the math
in this case, you will come to the conclusion that mentally, they are buried
deep within past times. I don't think that ANY Christian behave likes that
(maybe Kukies, but they are more like a bunch of whackos than a recognized
society).

As I stated before in this thread I think, I can see no solution for whats
going on here.
The real problem is not the Palestinians, we are currently quite adept at
preventing their attacks, as the increasing boredom in CNN stories might suggest.
The problem is the huge number of hostile domestic Arabs, who
will become a majority over here in the next decades and dissolve Israel from
within.
Then I'm moving to live with Chengleen and his sheep :love:

 

[fluff]

fluff, what's with the negative attitude? I like bikes too, you know

Because you present your opinion as fact and you seem prejudiced.

There are places in Ireland where I would run a very high chance of being murdered if I walked into a pub, doesn't make all Irishmen animals or murderers, the huge majority of them are incredibly friendly and welcoming. Heck, there are pubs in Liverpool and Manchester where I would be badly beaten just for my accent, but I have friends from both areas.

One of the reasons I knew you would not mention regarding the Jordanian view of the Paelstinians is that they contain a large number of well-educated and highly literate arabs, almost an Arab intelligensia, but that doesn't fit well with your view of them as animals.

I see in your posts a complete refusal to understand the Arab position. After all each and every suicide bomber knows full well that they will die if they complete their mission, that shows the desparation they feel.

I see in Changleen's posts such vitriol that anyone would dismiss him as anti-Israeli and anti-US, but he does raise some good points, and your posts are not without truth either but many are lost by tarring all Arabs with the terrorist brush.

I disagree with the tactics of both sides, and I know that it suits the political aims of each leadership to continue as is. It doesn't help the ordinary Israelis or the ordinary Palestinians. The Israeli state can make life hell for the Palestinians but the Israelis will go down with them.

As Ohio says, the onus is on the Israeli state to find a political solution to halt the bloodshed because only they have the power to find that solution.

As Yitzhak Rabin quoted 'You make peace with your enemies, not your friends.'

 

[Changleen]

After listening to roee and Opie I think I do support Iran getting Nukes that can hit Isreal. Maybe then you'll be forced to to deal with them as a bit closer to your equals, becuase it doesn't seem you'll ever accept any other way.
I am frankly horified that you think your ideas about the Palestinians are OK. Opie, you are a dick to support such racist remarks without criticism. Until your attitude and that of people like you takes a pretty fundamental term for the better you will never find peace, and with ideas like yours, I'm not sure you deserve it.

 

[LeeOz]

Although anyone is entitled to his own opinion, I do believe that if you do not or did not live in Israel or the so-called "palestinian" land, you should kindly shut the f*** up...


How freaking arrogant it is for americans to say what Israel is doing right or wrong when they are killing 10's of thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq because of 9/11. Man those peeps should be remembered what happened in Argentina, Chili and all South-America during the 60s & 70s for the sake of "freedom". Word they still use as an excuse to mess up with the whole planet.

Talking about racism, haha what a joke... 40 years ago, there was still lynching of people because of the color of their skin in some states (Alabama, Mississippi,...). And once in a while, it's not rare to read about racist killing in the states either because of the color or religious and sexual beliefs.

Instead of looking at what's happening in your neighbor's house, you'd better look at yours.

For Changleen and the few other retards, you don't live where he used to live, when everytime you take the bus, everytime you go to a restaurant or a wedding, you could get f**king blown up by a suicide bomber. So STFU and stop judging.

btw: like he said no arab countries will welcome palestinian refugees, they are way too happy to let them live poorly and blame it solely on Israel. For those countries, palestinians are too "agitated" and would be a menace for the stability of the governments or regimes.

 

[LordOpie]

How freaking arrogant it is for americans to say what Israel is doing right or wrong when they are killing...

"They"? Are you not an american citizen?

Right or wrong, if you're a citizen, "we're" doing it. You can certainly disagree, but if you're not a "we", kindly exit the country the quickest way possible. Thank you for visiting.

 

[LeeOz]

I certainly disagree... and after 5 years in the country, I don't call that "visiting" anymore

I will have my citizenship this year, so you better expell me fast (but you won't have my bike )


ps: I also use "They" for the good things you know!!!

 

[genpowell71]

Turn the middle east into a HUGE sheet of glass and start over.

There you go, problem solved...

 

[LordOpie]

ps: I also use "They" for the good things you know!!!

yeah, you can stop that now

 

[Changleen]

Although anyone is entitled to his own opinion, I do believe that if you do not or did not live in Israel or the so-called "palestinian" land, you should kindly shut the f*** up...

This is a DICUSSION FORUM, retard.

How freaking arrogant it is for americans to say what Israel is doing right or wrong when they are killing 10's of thousands of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq because of 9/11. Man those peeps should be remembered what happened in Argentina, Chili and all South-America during the 60s & 70s for the sake of "freedom". Word they still use as an excuse to mess up with the whole planet.

I'm not American. I agree that the American government is one of the most hypocritical organisations on Earth.

For Changleen and the few other retards, you don't live where he used to live, when everytime you take the bus, everytime you go to a restaurant or a wedding, you could get f**king blown up by a suicide bomber. So STFU and stop judging.

Israel's situation is not unique that they face the threat of Terrorism. I grew up in a Army town in the UK, so was also constantly under threat from the IRA. How about you stop making utterly baseless judgements about me and the other people posting? I have visited Palestine, I have seen the conditions for myself. I think the Israeli Government and apologist racists like roee have a lot to answer for. What's your contribution to this little melee other than to try and styfle debate in a debating forum? Idiot.

 

[Changleen]

Then I'm moving to live with Chengleen and his sheep :love:

Fortunalty for me (and the whole of NZ) we don't take too kindly to racist fvcks and we aren't to keen on Israel right now either. Get your own passports.

 

[LeeOz]

This is a DICUSSION FORUM, retard.

True that by only calling Israel and Roee racist, you bring a sh*tload of interesting concepts and ideas. Thanks for coming.

I grew up in a Army town in the UK, so was also constantly under threat from the IRA.

In my memory IRA never used suicide bombers, and they never stabbed pregnant women either...

I have visited Palestine

You went to palestine huh! curious I can't find it on the world map, wanna try? Only people that don't recognize the state of Israel call it palestine.
And if you're talking about the land that the palestinian authority (and his so trustfull boss arafat) represents, it's the "Gaza Strip" and the "West Bank".

Later hater

 

[Changleen]

True that by only calling Israel and Roee racist, you bring a sh*tload of interesting concepts and ideas. Thanks for coming.

Did you actuall read this thread or did you just jump in feet first about 5 seconds ago? I've clearly stated my position on these issues earlier in the thread. Why don't you go and read it? Where are your interesting concepts and ideas? Did I miss them? Oh, no, you don't have any...

In my memory IRA never used suicide bombers, and they never stabbed pregnant women either...

And your point is? They were still a terrorist organisation who bombed and killed hundreds of innocents.They also used kneecapping, extorsion, execution, kidnapping and burning people alive as methods in Ireland. What's so special about Suicide bombings? And as for stabbing pregnat mothers, Israeli soldiers have burried them alive, beat them to death, and executed their children. Once again, what's your point?

You went to palestine huh! curious I can't find it on the world map, wanna try? Only people that don't recognize the state of Israel call it palestine.

Yeeesss.....

Thanks for that excellent interjection. A+ for effort, D- for content.

 

[LeeOz]

"And as for stabbing pregnat mothers, Israeli soldiers have burried them alive, beat them to death, and executed their children"...

haha you're a funny dude. Where did you get that, Hamas website?

 

[Changleen]

Ariel Sharon, current Israeli Prime Minister, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956:

'I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do.'

Examples of Israeli behaviour:
http://johnw.host.sk/articles/israel_crimes/massacre_of_sabra_and_chatila_in.htm
http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/jeru-disarmed.html
http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=4363&CategoryId=2

More:

In March 1978, Israel attacked PLO positions in south Lebanon and occupied a 10 km (six mile)-wide strip north of the Lebanese border. About 1,500 people were killed, mostly Lebanese and Palestinian civilians.

In 1978, U.N. Security Council resolution 425 ordered the Israelis to leave Lebanon. They refused! Israel has never complied with a single UN resolution which has been against its illegitimate interests.

In July 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon with the declared aim of routing Palestinian guerrillas. Israeli Defense Minister Ariel Sharon promised his army would stop after 40 km (25 miles) but it encircled Beirut, 40 km further north. After bombardments by the Israeli, about 20,000 people were killed, mostly Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.

In April 11, 1996, Israel unleashed "Operation Grapes of Wrath". This Israeli genocide with more than 14,000 shells and 1,500 air raids against innocent civilians, Killed more than 300 people mostly women and children (including 102 refugees shelled at a U.N. base in the south), thousands injured, damaged or destroyed more than 50 villages or cities and left more than 500,000 civilians with no home or shelter.

The following are excerpts of a description of the Dawayma massacre published in the Israeli daily ‘Al ha Mishmar':

The children they killed by breaking their heads with sticks. There was not a house without dead…one commander ordered a sapper to put two old women in a certain house…and to blow up the house with them. The sapper refused…the commander then ordered his men to put in the old women and the evil deed was done. One soldier boasted that he had raped a woman and then shot her…

Starting to get the point?

 

[LeeOz]

sorry no, I don't really get it...

I could dig up hundreds of articles like that about what the "palestinians" did, that would help fix the situation right?

As for the "Dawayma massacre", well at that period of time, both sides were committing atrocities. I could show you a road in Israel where in 1948, palestinians ambushed a convoy of Israeli (altho they werent Israelis officially yet) ambulances and massacred all the woundeds that were inside.

Well war is not pretty. And that's what it is, Israel is a country that has been in a state of war for the last 56 years. Don't think you can really understand that in New Zealand...

 

[Changleen]

You felt my post regarding Israeli treatment on palestinian Women and Children was false - I provided evidence to the contrary. Clear enough for you?

Of course you can show hundreds of instances of Palestinian attacks and attrocities. I do not deny they do not exist. I am simply trying to point out that Israel has killed far and away more palestinians and other arabs than it has ever experienced. You cannot deny this fact.

Yet still Israel acts like a victim, and people like roee speak of their hatred of all Arabs and Muslims. As the power in the region, it is up to them to try and make moves toward peace, especailly since they've basically destroyed the Palestinian authority and keep Yasser Arafat under house arrest.

What I'm trying to point out is that to a large extent, Israelis bring this on themselves. Roee and co, despite claiming their oh-so-superior 'western' values actually act like stupid children and will never bring themselves to stop the retaliations. There has not been a suicide bombing for a considerable time now, but Israel still sends Apaches to attack civilians in refuge camps with missiles. How does Israel explain that?

Is it any suprise when a Palestinian, forced to live under these conditions, decides to try and strike back any way he can?

And as for your pathetic, childish quote about New Zealand...Grow up. Once again you have shown you have barely read this thread at all and stuck your foot in your mouth.

 

[LeeOz]

You felt my post regarding Israeli treatment on palestinian Women and Children was false - I provided evidence to the contrary. Clear enough for you?

Firstable it happened in 1948, so it would be nice to quote the date also and not try to give people the impression that it happened yesterday

I am simply trying to point out that Israel has killed far and away more palestinians and other arabs than it has ever experienced. You cannot deny this fact.

Simply ridiculous. when? where? compares to what? In 1970, for exemple, Jordan killed thousands of palestinians on his own territory because they were putting the stability of the country in jeopardy. When they shelled Lebanon, it was in retaliation for rockets launched from hezbollah positions. You know hezbollah, that group that is backed by Iran.
No word from you on Syria though, who's army is still occupying the northern part of Lebanon.

Yet still Israel acts like a victim, and people like roee speak of their hatred of all Arabs and Muslims. As the power in the region, it is up to them to try and make moves toward peace, especailly since they've basically destroyed the Palestinian authority and keep Yasser Arafat under house arrest.

They had the opportunity to get 95% of their land back when Clinton was mediating but arafat blew it. Anyway he doesn't care with the billion dollar he has in Swiss bank accounts.

There has not been a suicide bombing for a considerable time now, but Israel still sends Apaches to attack civilians in refuge camps with missiles. How does Israel explain that?.

8/12 "A Palestinian bomber detonated explosives about 200 meters from a busy checkpoint at the northern edge of Jerusalem on Wednesday, killing two Palestinian passersby and wounding at least 13 people, including 7 Israeli border police officers, 3 of them seriously. "

They don't aim at civilians in refugee camps but at militants. pls STFU and get your news straight.

And as for your pathetic, childish quote about New Zealand...Grow up. Once again you have shown you have barely read this thread at all and stuck your foot in your mouth.

I read this thread but people like you with obvious lack of facts and knowledge of the Middle-East history bored me to death.

I won't respond to your blatant biased pro-palestinian views anymore. Have a nice life

 

[Changleen]

Firstable it happened in 1948, so it would be nice to quote the date also and not try to give people the impression that it happened yesterday

Throughout this thread we've been discussing the Israel/Palestine question since inception. I am glad to see you have some concept of this actually. Maybe you're not as stupid as I thought. However if you refer back through the thread you will see this debate is not based on the last five years. We can make it so if you like. I personally think this would be more sensible.

Simply ridiculous. when? where? compares to what? In 1970, for exemple, Jordan killed thousands of palestinians on his own territory because they were putting the stability of the country in jeopardy. When they shelled Lebanon, it was in retaliation for rockets launched from hezbollah positions. You know hezbollah, that group that is backed by Iran.
No word from you on Syria though, who's army is still occupying the northern part of Lebanon.

Ahh, I'm gonna call you on this. We are discussing Israel vs. Palestine. I will state it again - Israel has killed more Palestinians (ignore the other Arab deaths if you want - Other Arabs killing Palestinians has nothing to do with this debate.) than Palestine has killed Israelis. Feel free to try and disprove this. Most Israelis would admit to this, even Roee earlier in this thread.

They had the opportunity to get 95% of their land back when Clinton was mediating but arafat blew it. Anyway he doesn't care with the billion dollar he has in Swiss bank accounts.

This is a gross over-simplification. The riders on the deal were clearly unacceptable, and as you utterly fail to point out, this was far from being an end to the matter. It was simply a preliminary move towards a framework for the deal. Secondly what has Clinton's pay off (or not) got to do with this? It's irrelevant. Secondly, why not 100%? It's THEIR land after all, as you said yourself.

8/12 "A Palestinian bomber detonated explosives about 200 meters from a busy checkpoint at the northern edge of Jerusalem on Wednesday, killing two Palestinian passersby and wounding at least 13 people, including 7 Israeli border police officers, 3 of them seriously. "

Fair enough, but like I said, it was bound to happen.

They don't aim at civilians in refugee camps but at militants. pls STFU and get your news straight.

According to? They SAY they were aiming at militants. I'd like to see you fire rockets from a hovering Apache into a refugee camp aimed at a few specific people. Either way, the UN and various Human Rights groups have made it clear that it is unacceptable to bomb a huge area (18,000) of civilians in order to rout out maybe a couple of dozen militants. Do you think it would be acceptable to bomb an area the size of Chinatown, NY to get at a couple of gun men? Wouldn't their be a public out cry? Most of the world's population thinks this is unacceptable. Secondly, what's with the obsession with STFU? You sound like a spotty teenager! "STFU! STFU! Your Mom has Cooties! STFU!" Seriously. This is a debate forum, not a personal insult arena. How about you keep a lid on that crap?

I read this thread but people like you with obvious lack of facts and knowledge of the Middle-East history bored me to death.

So - lets just take a quick count here - Facts posted by me (including links to sources): 20+.
Facts posted by you: 2. (without links to source). I'm glad your attention span is so long. You obviously take this very seriously.

I won't respond to your blatant biased pro-palestinian views anymore. Have a nice life

Why is being Pro-Palestinian so wrong? Because you have been conditioned by the Media into believing the Israeli side of the story? Do you ever question anything you are told? I could say exactly the same about your viewpoint. "Blatantly Pro-Israeli" - I've said it before and I'll say it again. this is a DEBATE forum. One person puts up one side of a issue, and others respond, each using facts, links and evidence to support their case.

However, as you are apparently one of those types of people who is scared to question the status quo, you have dived into this debate with your "pro-Israeli" point of view, but have utterly failed to even actually make a point. I mean what are you actually arguing with me about? All you do is refute what I'm saying. You haven't actually made your own position clear. What do YOU think? Do you support Ariel Sharon without question? Do you think the Israelis are right to kill Palestinians by the thousand? What's the deal? Until you can do that all you are is noise - another imbecile who blindly follows CNN and Fox, incapable of using his brain for critical thought.

 

[roee]

"There has not been a suicide bombing for a considerable time now, but Israel still sends Apaches to attack civilians in refuge camps with missiles. How does Israel explain that?"

I find this one especially entertaining
We don't get attacks because we prevent them. I know the concept
of being attacked is strange to you, unless you got a rabid sheep in your herd.
In the recent month, 200 suicide bombers were captured/killed.
I find it very impressive.
Now, if someone executes terror against Israel, he can expect to quickly be dead,
by a missile or by being chased down and shot.
That's the admission for the terrorist club.
After we hit the heads of Hamas, they knew it's a whole different ball game.
Now they fear, and we're happy.

Israel now shows the Palestinians that it can handle terror in a military way,
unlike previously thought across the world.
Given enough time, the same will happen in Iraq too.

The fatality numbers you've brought are funny, reminds me of the number
of fatalities among Palestinians in Jenin a year or two ago, where they claimed
for 500 dead people and yelled massacre, and when requested to show the
bodies to UN inspectors there were only 50, almost all armed.

What you say about suicide bombers just shows how ignorant you are:
The religious leaders recruit the weak minded ones, like a 15 years old kid
who was the subject to mockery among his friends because he stuttered.
Then they promise them great life in heaven - Read some testimonies
of suicide bombers who were caught, then you'll get to it.
The woman who exploded some months ago in a checkpoint was forced to do it
BY HER HUSBAND because he thought she was having a romance with someone.
He then said he gave her two choices: Either he kills her, or she goes and detonates
on Israelis, and gains some respect by it.
This is, of course, a very civilized behaviour.

I'd like to correct you on one more issue: I don't hate Palestinians, neither do I
hate Arabs or Muslims of any kind. I just don't want to live next to them,
not because they smell bad or anything but because I fear for my life.
You can call it "racism", but then you can also go fcuk yourself.

 

[Changleen]

Roee, your posts contain so many inconsistancies, I am starting to wonder if you actually know what you think yourself. All your answers are simplistic, you resort to personal insult and stereotyping like a small, stupid child in nearly every post to me. Even other people who have lived in Israel who post on here call you a Racist. You don't hate Palestinians, BUT..they're Primates. You don't hate Arabs, BUT.. they have lower moral standards than you.

Earlier you 'apologised' for your racist remarks, but IN YOUR VERY NEXT POST made a racist statement. Despite your claims to have 'evidence' of what you say (that Palestinians are Primates?) you have yet to post a single link to a source for your claims.

Finally, you say

"I don't hate Palestinians, neither do I
hate Arabs or Muslims of any kind. I just don't want to live next to them.

Dude, your country is in the MIDDLE EAST! If you hate living next to Arabs so much, I think it's time you contacted your travel agent.

 

[Changleen]

In the recent month, 200 suicide bombers were captured/killed.

Ohh, so now you have the power to judge people for things they haven't done yet? Impressive, and NOT AT ALL fascist.

 

[Changleen]

Now they fear, and we're happy.

Another superb statement. Yay! We're making other Human beings scared for their lives! Woo Hoo! Aren't we great? This is SOOO gonna make them suddenly decide to drop their weapons, and do whatever we say! Go for it! I'm sure it's going to work.

 

[LeeOz]

haha changleen you are so retarded, it's amazing... you must be a local attraction back in your island.

Please next time, make sure you board the Rainbow Warrior

 

[Changleen]

haha changleen you are so retarded, it's amazing... you must be a local attraction back in your island.

Please next time, make sure you board the Rainbow Warrior

Great response, I'm sure New York is proud you can coble together a personal insult. It's SUCH a rare skill. Go you! How about answering a question or two next time?

 

[roee]

Despite your claims to have 'evidence' of what you say (that Palestinians are Primates?) you have yet to post a single link to a source for your claims.

There is no "evidence" for someone being primate, it's just a classification based on personal values. Just like the cannibals examples I've given before,
each can classify them in a different matter. To me, and for most, they are "primates", because their society works by premitive values.
For you, it might be different.
Primate is not really an insult, just an evolutionary state.

Take a look at the Arabs. Look at their regimes, look at their countries. Look at what they do to each other in Gaza. Look at their leaders.
Consider the fact that they are only familiar with force, not democracy (that's how they rule in Arab countries - not even ONE democracy in dozens of countries).
Look at how corrupt their leaders are (Araft is a multi-billionare, it's well documented).
Find me a better definition than "primates" for such people, and I'll use it.

Finally, you say Dude, your country is in the MIDDLE EAST! If you hate living next to Arabs so much, I think it's time you contacted your travel agent.

Never said it's not a problem. As I mentioned, I see no future for Israel in 30 years, because of the domestic Arabs. When they force their will on Israel, it will look just like Syria, Egypt or any other Arab country. Tough luck.

Ohh, so now you have the power to judge people for things they haven't done yet? Impressive, and NOT AT ALL fascist.

When someone is captured with an explosive belt on him, we tend to assume he was going to explode himself somewhere, and not in the middle of a desereted field. It might be facist, yes.

Another superb statement. Yay! We're making other Human beings scared for their lives! Woo Hoo! Aren't we great? This is SOOO gonna make them suddenly decide to drop their weapons, and do whatever we say! Go for it! I'm sure it's going to work.

Well, yes, we make them fear. Why should we fear for our lives instead?
You quite understandably ignore the fact that the situation Israel is found in has no precedence in the history. No one attacked a western country ever with such intense terror before. And Israel manages to stop it, against all odds and common opinions "that you can't stop terror in military means".
If it works, and Israelis don't die on buses, then it's now the problem of the Palestinians. When they decide they had enough, they'll resort to negotiating.
In fact, I'm very content with this situation.

Ultimately, no one has a better solution for terror. Negotiating? With whom? Yasser Arafat, who long ago stopped being relevant, even for the Europeans? Perhaps the Hamas, which is recognized as a terror organization in the same line like El Qaeda?

 

[fluff]

Well, that's this thread fvcked up.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I think this thread perfectly illustrates how one's perception changes when you have to live with the certain reality of people constantly trying to kill you, your family and friends every single day.

I can't relate to that in anyway.

 

[LordOpie]

I think this thread perfectly illustrates how one's perception changes when you have to live with the certain reality of people constantly trying to kill you, your family and friends every single day.

I can't relate to that in anyway.

 

[jmvar]

Take a look at the Arabs. Look at their regimes, look at their countries. Look at what they do to each other in Gaza. Look at their leaders.

ROEE I can't believe you had the balls to type this!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at your countries regime, read the quotes from Sharon posted above and comment. By your standards, Isreali leaders are as Barbaric as any Arab....

LeeOz, I see you like to jump in with both fire, huh? Do you have a point or do you just like to tell people to shut the fark up when you don't agree with them? I will do the opposite of what you have done, I ask you for your opinion and please do not STFU.......

LeeOz, ROEE, are you content on the eye for an eye situation?

ROEE, are you content on living the rest of your life knowing that there is a person across the "fence" waiting to blow you up? Does the majority of the Isreali population share your views regarding the future of your country and the state it lives in?