[roee]

The intent of Al-Qaeda is to remove Western influence, especially US from the Middle East. That are supported by some Islamic states is due to convergent interests, however none of these states endorsed 9/11.

Will it really end there? Did they not ever speak of clearing the world of the Christians? Do you believe these people are going to stop when US retreats from the Middle East?

I do not support terrorism in any form. I also do not think that the current approach of Israel will work and the US and the UK ain't helping the situation much by invading Iraq without UN support for reasons other than those stated.

We here learned that if we can't stop people from wanting from hurting us, at least we should prevent them from succeeding at it. And we do it pretty damn good for the moment. It will continue until the terrorists understand they can only fault themselves for the miserable situation.
Just like the repeated Arabian attacks on Israel, which ultimately ceased because they understood they are going nowhere.
Again I might mention Israel's state is a precedence, so no one can really see to where it's headed. We never believed we could so efficiently prevent terror few years ago, but I guess that if you apply all the necessary means, you can do it.

All the terrorist groups in Islamic lands will be Muslims, it's where they come from and their circumstances rather than their religion that makes them terrorists. There are plenty of extreme Christians and Jews who espouse similarly extreme views to Islamic fundamentalist terrorists, many of whom abuse religion in the name of power.

Circumstances, you say. Why the heck should a person from Saudi Arabia want to blow up WTC? What does he hold against USA?
I can't agree with you on the last sentence. If western people wanted to terrorize the Arabian world, they would have done it long ago.
Lets face it: If the US ALONE decides to wreck havoc on ALL 22 Arabian countries, it can do so with airstrikes in few months, and it will probably be cheaper in both money and lives than a month in Iraq.
We're just more considerate and better appreciate human lives, I guess.
And what kind of oppression exactly did the two British citizens who came to commit suicide bombing in Israel 2 years ago suffered (they were of course Muslim).

If you think attacking Islam will help you need to look much deeper at the causes of the current problems.

As I see it, the Islam has an abnormally high percentage of people that are willing to die for it, unlike other religions. Not to say that it's the Islam's fault alone, but something certainly stinks here.
When 9 years old kids are educated to want to die in a war against the "Zionists", something is just ain't right. Watch their kids programs, you'll be shocked.

You people just don't understand the mentallity that drives them to this. It's not oppression, it's not the US (which used to keep the involvement in this area to a minimum).
It's the will to die holy death in the name of the Islam, against the blasphermers which are you, me, and even Changleen and his herd.
And if they die onboard a 747 or holding a nuclear bomb in the middle of Washington, it doesn't matter for them.
When someone WANTS to die, how can you fight him? What kind of hope can you give him, if he believes the afterlife will be much better than anything he might have here, especially if he murders you and your family?

 

[roee]

So roee...how many Muslims and Arabs do we need to kill before we are safe? Maybe all of them, just to be sure, right? Did you see what fluff wrote a few comments ago? If you happen to "win" by commiting genocide, what good does that do you?

The sky is not falling. The world will not end. Al Qaeda will not destroy Western Civilization. And the solution to killing isn't more indiscriminate killing, unless you're intent on creating new threats. Every time a bulldozer takes down a house, you've probably implanted the seeds of a suicide bomber. Every time a laser guided bomb misses, the relatives of the "collateral damage" become much more inclined to hate you.

What's the difference for the people of Al Qaeda between crashing a passanger airplane into a skyscraper or detonating a nuke in the middle of a big city? None. That's why I think that unless we take a very aggressive stance and show them we, as a civilization, are not going to be the vicitims, they'll run us over. Because they are willing to die, and they hate us, while we pity them in the name of "humanity" and politically correctness.

The world WILL come to it's senses sometime, and the Muslims will either extinct or something drastic will happen to their religion. I heard a lecture by some major, internatioally acclaimed Professor for Islam, who said as long as the Quran isn't revised, there will be no peace with the Muslims.

Why you people insist that there is going to be a happy end? It's gonna get seriously messy (nukes on London or something) before we just blow up their collective existence to oblivion.

Now tell me what the fcuk does that have to do with Israel, Sharon or the Palestinians.

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

[Toshi]

If western people wanted to terrorize the Arabian world, they would have done it long ago.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,914925,00.html

The determination in Washington to confront Saddam goes back more than a decade. The men who are now President Bush's key advisers have long advocated regime change in Iraq.

9/11 simply gave them the excuse to carry out their plan, by lying and saying half-truths to convince the american public that there is/was an al qaeda-iraq link.

 

[Toshi]

Why you people insist that there is going to be a happy end? It's gonna get seriously messy (nukes on London or something) before we just blow up their collective existence to oblivion.

you are beyond hope, and i am eternally thankful that you are not in a position of power.

 

[roee]

you are beyond hope, and i am eternally thankful that you are not in a position of power.

You probably think 9/11 is a singular occasion, heh?
What I said has just happend; NYC was terrorized and Afghanistan was crushed, so was Iraq. Just imagine what would happen if there was a nuke in there instead of two airplanes.
Go ahead, ignore reality for all that I care. My nation can and will protect itself, can yours?

And I'm beyond hope.. .

 

[Toshi]

You probably think 9/11 is a singular occasion, heh?
What I said has just happend; NYC was terrorized and Afghanistan was crushed, so was Iraq. Just imagine what would happen if there was a nuke in there instead of two airplanes.
Go ahead, ignore reality for all that I care. My nation can and will protect itself, can yours?

And I'm beyond hope.. .

i choose to not live in a state of constant paranoia. i choose to not be a fascist. i choose to not believe the tripe the government throws out to the public.

i don't believe 9/11 was a "singular occasion", whatever that means. i believe that it has deep causes, most notably american arrogance and hypocrisy in foreign policy, especially when israel is concerned. i believe our foreign policy needs revamping to address these issues, and that our and israel's current policies are ultimately counterproductive.

 

[roee]

i choose to not live in a state of constant paranoia. i choose to not be a fascist. i choose to not believe the tripe the government throws out to the public.

i don't believe 9/11 was a "singular occasion", whatever that means. i believe that it has deep causes, most notably american arrogance and hypocrisy in foreign policy, especially when israel is concerned. i believe our foreign policy needs revamping to address these issues, and that our and israel's current policies are ultimately counterproductive.

Things just can't be as simple as they seem to be, right? There has to be some deep, sophisticated cause other than a will to kill as many blasphemers as they can... Well, I wish.

Good to know you and your kind are seriously outnumbered, or else we'd all be screwed :nuts:

 

[fluff]

The western world has terrorised the middle east at will for over a hundred years, the British the French and the US. We have supported and created oppressive regimes and we continue to meddle to this day.

If you really know much about middle eastern history you will know that the Arabs have had a ****ty deal from the west for over 100 years.

Islamic terrorists die in their hundreds because they are fighting for something they believe in against much more powerful nations. Israel, the S and UK have powerful armies, the Palestinians have comparatively nothing hence their tactics.

None of this is jusification for terrorism, but it will not stop until they receive a modicum of justice and Israel and the West are the only people who can provide it.

You may be effective now but for how long and at what cost?

You talk of 9/11 not being singular, do you really believe Israel will not suffer another Arab attack if they do not find a way to live in peace in the region?

Some Christians have espoused killing Jews, some Jews espouse killing Christians, is it any surprise Muslims also indulge in extreme rhetoric?

I am not anti-Israel, anti-semitic or pro-terror but I will not close my eyes to injustice. If you cannot see that Israel has committed crimes against Arabs just as Arabs have committed crimes against Israel why do you bother to debate?

The past has to be laid to rest and the future must be the priority.

Would you not like to see peace? To live without constant fear?

Do you think peace is easy to achieve? It is harder than continuing the conflict but would be so much more worthwhile.

 

[Silver]

Well, after all the false equivocations between Muslims and Arabs and Al Qaeda, I'm pretty much done. However, I will say this:


When 9 years old kids are educated to want to die in a war against the "Zionists", something is just ain't right. Watch their kids programs, you'll be shocked.


Yes, I've seen some of those. The nice thing is that they can start saving money now that Bush and Sharon are basically producing these things for them.

What shocks me more is that a literate adult can so casually advocate genocide. The banality of evil is alive and well, it seems.

Do you know what the difference between yourself and me is, roee? If I thought like you, I'd think all Israelis were racists bent on genocide.

However, I don't. But I'm done debating this. We still haven't moved past the "Arab/Muslims are animals" stage, and I don't see any hope of progress.

One more thing, I'd like to thank ohio for one of the most eloquent and hopeful posts I've ever seen.

 

[roee]

The western world has terrorised the middle east at will for over a hundred years, the British the French and the US. We have supported and created oppressive regimes and we continue to meddle to this day.

If you really know much about middle eastern history you will know that the Arabs have had a ****ty deal from the west for over 100 years.

Islamic terrorists die in their hundreds because they are fighting for something they believe in against much more powerful nations. Israel, the S and UK have powerful armies, the Palestinians have comparatively nothing hence their tactics.

None of this is jusification for terrorism, but it will not stop until they receive a modicum of justice and Israel and the West are the only people who can provide it.

You may be effective now but for how long and at what cost?

You talk of 9/11 not being singular, do you really believe Israel will not suffer another Arab attack if they do not find a way to live in peace in the region?

Some Christians have espoused killing Jews, some Jews espouse killing Christians, is it any surprise Muslims also indulge in extreme rhetoric?

I am not anti-Israel, anti-semitic or pro-terror but I will not close my eyes to injustice. If you cannot see that Israel has committed crimes against Arabs just as Arabs have committed crimes against Israel why do you bother to debate?

The past has to be laid to rest and the future must be the priority.

Would you not like to see peace? To live without constant fear?

Do you think peace is easy to achieve? It is harder than continuing the conflict but would be so much more worthwhile.

First, the western world has long ago left the middle east. France does nothing but support Arab regimes (they helped building the Iraqi nuclear planet in the 70's). Germany holds diplomatic relations with Iran.
What else can they ask for? Whatever the west did to them, anyway, It's long gone and forgotten. It's another ballgame now.
Now it's all about religion.

Of course I would like to see peace. As I mentioned, I was all pro Oslo back in the day, without realizing how bad it really was. Not because the agreement itself was bad, but because of the people it was made with.

We just want to live peacefully, but we pretty much came to the conclusion they won't let us.

Just for the sake of the debate, let me present you with these two question:
1. Do you think Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are unique among the Muslim world?
2. How can you come to a peace with them? What will make them happy?

I'd really like to know what you think about it

 

[roee]

Well, after all the false equivocations between Muslims and Arabs and Al Qaeda, I'm pretty much done. However, I will say this:


When 9 years old kids are educated to want to die in a war against the "Zionists", something is just ain't right. Watch their kids programs, you'll be shocked.


Yes, I've seen some of those. The nice thing is that they can start saving money now that Bush and Sharon are basically producing these things for them.

What shocks me more is that a literate adult can so casually advocate genocide. The banality of evil is alive and well, it seems.

Do you know what the difference between yourself and me is, roee? If I thought like you, I'd think all Israelis were racists bent on genocide.

However, I don't. But I'm done debating this. We still haven't moved past the "Arab/Muslims are animals" stage, and I don't see any hope of progress.

How on earth can you say I advocate genocide? While I think there is a good chance it will come to this, I do not advocate or promote genocide in any form or way.
I also think Israel's years are few, does that make me Anti-Israeli?
Yea, I don't see a very bright future. I don't think we can coexist with the Islam in it's current fashion, because 9/11 will happen again, and what happend in Spain will happen again.
And if by any chance they lay their hands on nukes, then you can add this to the stuff that will happen too.

Could you please tell me what you think would happen if they nuke a city in the US?

Believe me, the debate itself is much more valuable than attacking me personally (and for advocating genocide, of all things).

 

[LeeOz]

France does nothing but support Arab regimes (they helped building the Iraqi nuclear planet in the 70's).

French engineers also helped building the Dimona Nuclear Research Center France has also been arming arab countries for decades (as did USSR, Germany, China, ...) but during arabo-israeli conflicts, they were providing the Israelis with informations that would help them against arab armies (air-air missiles codes for countermeasures, etc...). Israelis were also flying on French Mirage fighting jets during the 1967 Six Days War and the Yom-Kippur War.

French are not always bad

 

[roee]

French engineers also helped building the Dimona Nuclear Research Center France has also been arming arab countries for decades (as did USSR, Germany, China, ...) but during arabo-israeli conflicts, they were providing the Israelis with informations that would help them against arab armies (air-air missiles codes for countermeasures, etc...). Israelis were also flying on French Mirage fighting jets during the 1967 Six Days War and the Yom-Kippur War.

French are not always bad

Of course, without France Israel could not exist in its early years (up until the 70's, when we began purchasing US made weapons).
It's not just the Mirage, but the rest of Israel's military airplanes that were purchased from France.

The planet in Dimona is US made, I think.

I wasn't complaining

 

[nicklin]

What a bunch of crap...open your eyes before you speak such rubbish. Israel was founded as a state for the Jews. You really gonna claim it's a secular state? You might claim to protect human rights but what about the thousands of Palestinians you've killed? What about the fascist policies of your Government that repress and ensure that Palestinians live in a constant state of fear? Your media has the right to free speech but does not exercise it. What about the billions of dollars of US aid you recieve every year?
Sharon is a fascist murderer, and the Israeli people are complicit by their silence.

Oh, dude, i was so busy for two weeks finishing up my finals and upon return i'm here to discover such sophisticated arguements.

the thing is, when you say the israeli governement keeps the palestinians in fear, you then have to mention that the rest of the Arab world keeps Israel in a state of fear, ever since its birth.

Why do I support the state of israel unconditionally? It is the only nation that existed, other than the US in recent history, in which Jewish people have not been widely persecuted, targeted, and poised for extermination. Its existence ensures one place which a people can live without fear of being dragged out of their homes and sent away, unlike countries like Russia, Ukraine, hungary, poland, france, belgium, austria.....i'll stop here for the sake of arguement. one people deserves a chance to live in a place without fear from within its border.

people always say that the creation of the state of Israel and its location was an international diplomatic catastrophe, but i didn't see anyone else offering a piece of land for the jewish people to call home, so to those who question whether or not Israel has the right to maintain its border, identity, and security, shut the f*ck up, unless you got a better solution.

As to calling sharon a nazi and a murderer, i think he is the guy the a nation needs in order to be strong, but the one that everyone else despises. Well, he is doing his job, and that's a whole lot better than any other politicians in the western hemisphere could do in preserving human lives. why don't we examine the national policies of the estern european countries and see if they are examplary of being tolerant and open minded? Why are people targeting Israel and singling it out? Why not pick a fight with the Russians for their domestic issues?

I just observe that people love to pick on small countries, and a whole lot of people love to pick on jews. Well, for those people, israel is two for two, but at least we know that there won't be a rail line from tel aviv to dacau. just for that, it's all worth it.

 

[roee]

Whoa nicklin, an Israeli passport is on the way to you

Seriously though, nice to know there are such people too

 

[Toshi]

Why do I support the state of israel unconditionally? It is the only nation that existed, other than the US in recent history, in which Jewish people have not been widely persecuted, targeted, and poised for extermination.

the holocaust does not have a magical power to perpetually justify whatever the israeli government decides to do.

oh, and it's "dachau" btw.

 

[LordOpie]

the holocaust does not have a magical power to perpetually justify whatever the israeli government decides to do.

so you're saying that persecution only happened in WW2 and doesn't happen now, elsewhere, even in sporting events?

 

[Toshi]

so you're saying that persecution only happened in WW2 and doesn't happen now, elsewhere, even in sporting events?

that's not what i wrote. i am saying it does not give the israeli government a blank check to do whatever they want.

 

[Silver]

that's not what i wrote. i am saying it does not give the israeli government a blank check to do whatever they want.

That is correct. The US government gives the Israeli government that blank check.

 

[LordOpie]

that's not what i wrote. i am saying it does not give the israeli government a blank check to do whatever they want.

well, i agree with that, but to suggest that israel/jews aren't still persecuted today in a huge way is silly. And that's what you're doing by going back 60 yrs.

Nope, not saying jews are the only group to be persecuted, but that is the part of the topic. And please, don't come back with "well, non-jews are persecuted in israel", cuz that's just not proportional. Frankly, why the heck don't non-jews just leave israel? It's tiny compared to the ME and arab-muslims don't need that little land.

 

[Silver]

Frankly, why the heck don't non-jews just leave israel? It's tiny compared to the ME and arab-muslims don't need that little land.

Because they were there first?

 

[LordOpie]

Because they were there first?

Hey, I have an idea, let's go in circles and dance our little dance.

Besides that not being true, let's focus on TODAY. People are dying and they don't need to be. Arab-Muslim land is like 20x the size of little israel. You do the math.

 

[Toshi]

Hey, I have an idea, let's go in circles and dance our little dance.

Besides that not being true, let's focus on TODAY. People are dying and they don't need to be. Arab-Muslim land is like 20x the size of little israel. You do the math.

why don't all israeli jews move to new york? that's just as ridiculous/plausible a suggestion.

 

[SDH]

No one ever justified them, although they were never targeting civilians, and the newborn state actually fought them at more than one occasion (The "Altalena" weapons ship is one example). Those who did target civilians did it based on their own will, not by any directing hand. The Lechi terroist organization was IMMEDIATELY outlawed in the new state of Israel.
Anyway, terrorism wasn't introduced to the area by them, guess you never heard of the "Fad'ayun" Arabian brigades whose sole purpose was killing jewish civilians.

Read those books a little more, eh?

BS! alarmed pulled, they tageted all British! ALL British! So you see before you start calling people uncivilized and animals b/c they resort to violence to get what they want, look at what your beloved Isreal and jewish peeps did to get what they wanted. Following your reasoning, Isreal was built on the same tenets/prinicpals of killers and animals who killed innocents like the Palestians are doing today. Of course they (terrorists groups) were outlawed after the state formed, 1) no brits to kill and 2) they needed to put on a more PC humane face to gain support from the Brits and the US. Please don't be blind. Also it has been agreed upon that the modern term of terrorism was created with the terrorist acts of the Jews vs the Brits in the newly forming state of Isreal!

About the whole issue in general, what I find particularly interesting is the jewish religion teaches to love one another and there is similiar teachings in the Muslim religion also, so now two dudes (1 jew/1 muslim) go worship like a good follower and pray for blessings and to be a good person and then...........go out in the street and throw rocks and shoot at each other! Do you see the insanity of it all???????????????

 

[fluff]

well, i agree with that, but to suggest that israel/jews aren't still persecuted today in a huge way is silly. And that's what you're doing by going back 60 yrs.

Nope, not saying jews are the only group to be persecuted, but that is the part of the topic. And please, don't come back with "well, non-jews are persecuted in israel", cuz that's just not proportional. Frankly, why the heck don't non-jews just leave israel? It's tiny compared to the ME and arab-muslims don't need that little land.

Surely any persecution is bad, no?

And I hope you're not advocating ethnic cleansing. Why should non-Jews leave Israel if they have lived there for generations?

 

[LordOpie]

Surely any persecution is bad, no?

And I hope you're not advocating ethnic cleansing. Why should non-Jews leave Israel if they have lived there for generations?

why don't all israeli jews move to new york? that's just as ridiculous/plausible a suggestion.

Because they have a home and NY is really far away compared to walking a few miles to a safer life.

Bottomline: Palestinians are dying at the hands of Israel, right? Which is an easier solution -- (A) Getting the two sides to find a peaceful solution -or- (B) Finding a home outside of Israel for the Palestinians?

Which option do you think is best, A or B?

 

[fluff]

Because they have a home and NY is really far away compared to walking a few miles to a safer life.

Bottomline: Palestinians are dying at the hands of Israel, right? Which is an easier solution -- (A) Getting the two sides to find a peaceful solution -or- (B) Finding a home outside of Israel for the Palestinians?

Which option do you think is best, A or B?

Make up your mind about the question.

Easiest is arguable, if no one else wants them (and why should anyone else want them?) Best solution is A.

Why was Israel established again? Certainly not so that we could just create a different bunch of dispossessed people without a home.

 

[LordOpie]

A.

Why was Israel established again? Certainly not so that we could just create a different bunch of dispossessed people without a home.

Good to know where you stand and that is... you'd prefer more innocent people being killed so you can stay on your high horse.

 

[fluff]

Good to know where you stand and that is... you'd prefer more innocent people being killed so you can stay on your high horse.

Don't be a dick. Do you really think that you can forcibly relocate people who are fighting to return whence they came?

The only way to stop killing innocent people is to want to stop killing innocent people. Which means seeking peace.

You're not talking a few hundred people here you know.

 

[genpowell71]

Don't be a dick. Do you really think that you can forcibly relocate people who are fighting to return whence they came?

The only way to stop killing innocent people is to want to stop killing innocent people. Which means seeking peace.

You're not talking a few hundred people here you know.

Who started the killing first? Wasnt the Jews according to history...

 

[Toshi]

Who started the killing first? Wasnt the Jews according to history...

what history do you refer to?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/timeline/1948.stm

The year had begun with Jewish and Arab armies each staging attacks on territory held by the other side. Jewish forces, backed by the Irgun and Lehi militant groups made more progress, seizing areas alloted to the Jewish state but also conquering substantial territories allocated for the Palestinian one.

(that link is actually quite cool, the excerpt is from 1948 but many other years are also on the timeline)

 

[LordOpie]

...but also conquering substantial territories allocated for the Palestinian one.

Palestine was allocated land?

 

[MikeD]

Palestine was allocated land?

That depends on who you ask...I'm sure the people living there had an opinion. So did those who wanted to move there. Hence the conflict, born of opinion. There's no ultimate right or wrong in the end, and no national/state/international body with ultimate authority...there's just who manages to survive, politically and biologically. Anyone care to place bets? I'm at a loss.

MD

Edit: and yeah, by the Balfour declaration, there was an allocation of land to the Palestinian Arabs and an allocation of land to the Zionist Jews. Not that it means much.

 

[LordOpie]

Edit: and yeah, by the Balfour declaration, there was an allocation of land to the Palestinian Arabs and an allocation of land to the Zionist Jews. Not that it means much.

Actually, that means everything since the Brits and French had beaten the Ottoman empire... to the victor goes the spoils and all that. So, they had the right to do what they wanted to with that land.

That still doesn't answer my question about the Palestinians getting land allocated to them. I honestly did not know that happened and am curious about the details.

 

[MikeD]

Actually, that means everything

It means everything to you because of the side of the fence you're on. If your ancestors had been on land for generations, and someone else 'allocated' that land away from them, you'd think that allocation was wrong, illegal, immoral, what have you-regardless if they'd 'lost a war.' Losing a war may mean necessarily living with certain conditions, but it doesn't mean liking or accepting them...and the losing side in WWI was the Ottomans, who in fact had oppressed the area as well. That still doesn't mean having to like the British victors or their allocations.

Resisting that allocation would be, to you, a moral positive, fighting another oppressor.

There are multiple viewpoints, and if you can't understand this one (again, not that you have to accept it), there's not much hope.

Anyhow, the British model was a Palestinian Arab state, a Jewish state, and an internationally-governed, independent Jerusalem. Toshi's link explains how that became the situation it is today.

MD

 

[LordOpie]

It means everything to you because of the side of the fence you're on. If your ancestors had been on land for generations, and someone else 'allocated' that land away from them, you'd think that allocation was wrong, illegal, immoral, what have you-regardless if they'd 'lost a war.' Losing a war may mean necessarily living with certain conditions, but it doesn't mean liking or accepting them...and the losing side in WWI was the Ottomans, who in fact had oppressed the area as well. That still doesn't mean having to like the British victors or their allocations.

Resisting that allocation would be, to you, a moral positive, fighting another oppressor.

There are multiple viewpoints, and if you can't understand this one (again, not that you have to accept it), there's not much hope.

Anyhow, the British model was a Palestinian Arab state, a Jewish state, and an internationally-governed, independent Jerusalem. Toshi's link explains how that became the situation it is today.

MD

Stay focused, I'm not interested in a moral debate about fighting for what you believe in and all that crap.

What are the facts? Where's a map showing what land was allocated to Palestinians?

 

[MikeD]

Toshi's link explains how that became the situation it is today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/middle_east/israel_and_the_palestinians/key_documents/1681322.stm

There's your partition plan.

MD

Edit: By the way, I'm not starting a moral debate. I'm trying to point out precisely the opposite...that there's no moral right and wrong, just opinion and power.

 

[LordOpie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/middle_east/israel_and_the_palestinians/key_documents/1681322.stm

There's your partition plan.

MD

Edit: By the way, I'm not starting a moral debate. I'm trying to point out precisely the opposite...that there's no moral right and wrong, just opinion and power.

It's funny how they leave out all of Jordan in that division of land.

 

[MikeD]

It's funny how they leave out all of Jordan in that division of land.

Transjordan wasn't ignored; it just isn't relevant to the discussion of Arab and Jewish states in Palestine. (Except perhaps as a refuge for fleeing Palestinians.) It was created in the same post WWI context as most Middle Eastern states, originating from the British and French control of the area.

Anyhow, since you've pointed out how the British declaration should govern everything in Palestine, are you ready to hand over some land?

Didn't think so. I guess there are other factors to consider, right?

MD

Edit: Check out Thomas Friedman's "From Beruit to Jersualem." It's the best, most humanistic portait of the modern crisis in Palestine/Israel that I've read. It's slightly outdated now, but covers everything except the most recent developments.

 

[LordOpie]

Transjordan wasn't ignored; it just isn't relevant to the discussion of Arab and Jewish states in Palestine. (Except perhaps as a refuge for fleeing Palestinians.) It was created in the same post WWI context as most Middle Eastern states, originating from the British and French control of the area.

Anyhow, since you've pointed out how the British declaration should govern everything in Palestine, are you ready to hand over some land?

Didn't think so. I guess there are other factors to consider, right?

MD

Well, second most absurd post here this weekend after TheMonty's doctor one.

Britain controls jack and sh:t and jack left town. Or hadn't you noticed. Sorry fluff