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Iron Horse 6 point setup tips, anyone?

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
Just bought a 2007 6 point frame, brand new, never used. Came with a DHX 3 air and Marz All Mountain 4, brand new never used. Both shock and fork have been sold. Got a Vivid air(m/m tune) going on, with a longer stroke than stock. I have read that many people run a 2.75 stroke shock instead of the 2.5(for reasons as its seemingly hard to find a 8.75 with a 2.5 stroke), it is my understanding this gives it close to 7 inches of travel with no tire rub. Just wondering if anyone had any input on this? Or any tips for building it light enough for trail riding, or setting it up for a quality ride. I will be getting a Lyrik Soloair for fork, and am building my wheels up with EX500 rims. The frame takes a 150mm rear hub which I got a WTB Laserdisc Super Duty, weighed 288g on my scales and has tall flanges so hopefully the wheel won't build up too terribly heavy. Also, since it has an 83mm BB I will be limited to DH cranks, of which I got Gravity Lights. Anyways, any tips or input from experience would be greatly appreciated. Will be my first trail bike build so I am looking for all the help I can get! Thanks guys
 

saruti

Turbo Monkey
Oct 29, 2006
1,167
73
Israel
first, you need a LOW/LOW tune on the rear shock.
other than that, just play with the settings
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
I can get a new shim stack if needed, but what exactly will the mid tune do to the suspension performance/characteristics that would make it unfavorable? Can the settings on the mid tune not be made to work well?

And I will be using a tapered steerer most likely, causing me to use an exterior headset cup on the bottom which would slack it out a little bit.
 

TrumbullHucker

trumbullruxer
Aug 29, 2005
2,284
719
shimzbury, ct
that would be a fun as hell build for light freeride/downhill
i would stick with the proper 2.5" stroke if you can find a shock..
def slacken it, get a properly tuned shock for the DW link

i had an '06 7.5 and i wish i had nice components on it ( 5th element 3 way probably made it feel like sh*t ) but i loved it
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,919
borcester rhymes
Do people run 8.5" shocks on there? That would give you a lower and slacker setup with the original travel. Only if it clears the tire at 2.75 though.

Also, with an air shock, you may be able to slip a shim under the bottom out bumper to shave .25" of travel. You can do it with floats and rocos, but I'm not sure on the vivid.
 

aenema

almost 100% positive
Sep 5, 2008
305
111
From what I understand, the rear end is the same as the 7 point so there is no issue going with the longer shock. The eye-to-eye is the same so geo is identical. My buddy has a 6 point built pretty light with an X-Fusion vengeance up front and he is around 32.5 lbs. Very doable on the climbs and a fun bike. I, personally, would like it a bit slacker and lower in the front end but like the bike. I would not worry about stroke of the shock but definitely want a low tune as you have very low leverage rates on that bike. Only other suggestion I would have is offset shock bushings to get you a bit slacker in the head angle. 170mm lyrik? That would be a very good choice.

Like how people are suggesting cranks, he already has the gravity lights. Fine crank with their newer alloy construction. Old ones tend to bend.
 
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92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
8.5x2.5 fits perfect. No clearance problems at full bottomout. Climbing just suffers. Geometry is awesome. right now it is a bit ridiculous at 64 ha, 13.3bb because i still have a -1.5 headset on from when i was running a 8.75 shock. I kinda like it though.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
Offset bushings will not work. 6point uses larger hardware, 10mm bolts so it is custom hardware.

People dont use longer shocks, they use longer stroke shocks, not longer eye to eye. Stock is a custom 8.75x2.5 which is not a standaard sstroke
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
Thanks for all the responses! Gravity Lights came today, pretty happy with them they appear well made. My Vivid air should be here tomorrow, not sure if I mentioned it before, but it is a 8.75 x 2.75 with the M/M tune. Jury is still out whether or not I will install a low tune shim stack, will wait till I can ride it and get a first hand experience. For now, I am just parts shopping. Looking for a 160mm Lyrik Soloair, I will be getting a RWC external lower headset cup to accommodate a tapered steerer. I know that will slacken the ht angle a bit, I just hope its enough. Just need cockpit, RD, pedals, and wheelset. Have some Elixirs lined up, but may go with something a bit nicer.
 

cowman

Monkey
Oct 17, 2004
227
2
Seattle, WA
Thanks for all the responses! Gravity Lights came today, pretty happy with them they appear well made. My Vivid air should be here tomorrow, not sure if I mentioned it before, but it is a 8.75 x 2.75 with the M/M tune. Jury is still out whether or not I will install a low tune shim stack, will wait till I can ride it and get a first hand experience. For now, I am just parts shopping. Looking for a 160mm Lyrik Soloair, I will be getting a RWC external lower headset cup to accommodate a tapered steerer. I know that will slacken the ht angle a bit, I just hope its enough. Just need cockpit, RD, pedals, and wheelset. Have some Elixirs lined up, but may go with something a bit nicer.
Sounds like an awesome build, I've always wanted to do something along those lines. A lot of people don't know you can use google for the below search, so I thought I'd throw it out there since craigslist sellers are often willing to ship. Give it a shot!

https://www.google.com/search?q=lyrik+site:craigslist.org&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS460US460&oq=lyrik+site:craigslist.org&aqs=chrome..69i57.14521j0j7&bmbp=1&sourceid=chrome&espvd=215&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#es_sm=93&q=rockshox+lyrik+site:craigslist.org
 
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frgeoff

Chimp
Feb 3, 2009
60
6
8.5x2.5 fits perfect. No clearance problems at full bottomout. Climbing just suffers. Geometry is awesome. right now it is a bit ridiculous at 64 ha, 13.3bb because i still have a -1.5 headset on from when i was running a 8.75 shock. I kinda like it though.
Geometry is not improved much with the short-shock on a 6pt -- there is a lower static BB height but anti-squat is far from optimal and climbing really suffers. In fact it surprised me how much worse it climbs. I am going to remove the 8.5 and go back to 8.75 really soon on my 6pt. 8.5x2.5 has the same "full bottom out" as the 8.75x2.75 so it wont bring the tire any closer to the seat tube

BTW a short-shock 7pt is still in the good part of the anti curve and is basically the same thing as a 6pt. the 8.5" will probably land on a 7pt.
 
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92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
I dunno how you can say geometry isnt affected much. -1.5 degree head angle and 0.7" bb drop is significant and completely changed how it felt on the downs. I suck at climbing so didnt really care that it bobs a bit more when climbing. Im getting the shock tuned with avy or push anyway and hopefully can tune that out.
 

ritche

Monkey
Dec 3, 2011
311
19
csermonet, any details on the drivetrain of your 6 point?

what's best for all around trail riding 1 x 10/11 or 2 x 10?
 
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csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
csermonet, any details on the drivetrain of your 6 point?

what's best for all around trail riding 1 x 10/11 or 2 x 10?
I am going to be using 1x9. first trail bike build so im sure a little trial and error will ensue. my good friend has a trail bike he rides 1x10 on, with a 32t chain ring. after spinning around on his I too will be using a 32t ring and my cassette is 11-36
 

BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
8.5x2.5 rear, modified xtr crank, bored the seat-tube from 30.0 to 30.9... Seriously fun bike that can be had for cheap.




I really enjoy older IH's.
My main bikes are mach 5.7/Mach 6 but for spare bikes I just finished boring a MK3 to 30.9, dropped in a -2* headset and a new RP23 Adaptive logic shock and its a great loaner trail bike with modern geometry. I have a 7 point I picked up off a buddy brand new in the garage waiting for some new parts. Too bad my Sunday is gone or I'd have a full '07 IH DW line.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
8.5x2.5 rear, modified xtr crank, bored the seat-tube from 30.0 to 30.9... Seriously fun bike that can be had for cheap.


I really enjoy older IH's.
My main bikes are mach 5.7/Mach 6 but for spare bikes I just finished boring a MK3 to 30.9, dropped in a -2* headset and a new RP23 Adaptive logic shock and its a great loaner trail bike with modern geometry. I have a 7 point I picked up off a buddy brand new in the garage waiting for some new parts. Too bad my Sunday is gone or I'd have a full '07 IH DW line.
Been contemplating boring my seat tube as well, while its not in the initial plan, I'd like the option of maybe getting a dropper post one day and don't really want to run shims in a smaller diameter post. Any tips for boring it out? Also, what rims/hubs did you use on the 6 point? Do you know the weight of the complete bike? Most people build them up for DH/FR, so any weights I have seen aren't really comparable to what I have planned.

I too am a fan of the older IH's. I have a barely used, stock 07 7 point that I let friends ride, and used to have a Sunday as well(DW DHR now :D) Aesthetically speaking though, the DW Iron Horses were some of the best looking bikes made IMO. With the ride quality to match.
 

BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
I went with WTB Laserdisc hubs, Aerolite spokes and Laserdisc FR rims. The wheelset was I think 1880g, which for a 150mm wheel isnt bad especially considering I raced them for 3 years prior to running them on the 6 point. I *think* bike came out at 33lbs with a coil Lyric, Reverb, and Gravity Light cranks. I never weighed it with the straight post and XTR cranks.

I bought my 7 point off a friend. It was ridden 3 times. I have a 180mm Fox tapered Talas, Spank Spike Race wheels, Spike bars/stem/pedals, Manitou Evolver air shock, descendants and some Exo Casing Minions. I hope to hit 34lbs with it but we'll see.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
I went with WTB Laserdisc hubs, Aerolite spokes and Laserdisc FR rims. The wheelset was I think 1880g, which for a 150mm wheel isnt bad especially considering I raced them for 3 years prior to running them on the 6 point. I *think* bike came out at 33lbs with a coil Lyric, Reverb, and Gravity Light cranks. I never weighed it with the straight post and XTR cranks.

I bought my 7 point off a friend. It was ridden 3 times. I have a 180mm Fox tapered Talas, Spank Spike Race wheels, Spike bars/stem/pedals, Manitou Evolver air shock, descendants and some Exo Casing Minions. I hope to hit 34lbs with it but we'll see.
Those are some respectable weights! I too got a Laserdisc hub for the rear wheel, found a brand new one on eBay for $15 :D Lightest 150mm hub I've been able to find, except for a Tune. Still got my eye out for a random hub for the front wheel, just something reputable and black lol. How is the reliability of your Laserdisc rear hub? Hoping it will last. Planning on butted spokes of some sort and DT ex500 rims. Just got my Vivid air mounted, hoping with all that and a Lyrik air that I will be around 32lbs.
 

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,032
907
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
The weights come across for these bikes w/ extensive mods are about 33- 34lbs, 32lbs would be nearly impossible to get at.

I ride one of these - will be trimming weight soon so anything worth revealing I will.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
The weights come across for these bikes w/ extensive mods are about 33- 34lbs, 32lbs would be nearly impossible to get at.

I ride one of these - will be trimming weight soon so anything worth revealing I will.
Care to share your specs and weight?
 

BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
The weights come across for these bikes w/ extensive mods are about 33- 34lbs, 32lbs would be nearly impossible to get at.

I ride one of these - will be trimming weight soon so anything worth revealing I will.
With all of the long-travel air-sprung forks out, lighter carbon 83mm cranks and wide-range cassettes there shouldn't be any problem hitting the 30lb mark.
I know when I first built mine up I have 1100g tires, 2x9 gearing, steel coils front and rear, dropper post, and 600g pedals, and those honkey-ass fizik frizik saddles. It was 35lbs. Kicking down to some 600-700g tires, 1x10, air sprung suspension and the right wheelset could easily drop that weight. The frames aren't THAT heavy.

Just cruising my photobucket and found an old pic
 

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,032
907
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
With all of the long-travel air-sprung forks out, lighter carbon 83mm cranks and wide-range cassettes there shouldn't be any problem hitting the 30lb mark.
I know when I first built mine up I have 1100g tires, 2x9 gearing, steel coils front and rear, dropper post, and 600g pedals, and those honkey-ass fizik frizik saddles. It was 35lbs. Kicking down to some 600-700g tires, 1x10, air sprung suspension and the right wheelset could easily drop that weight. The frames aren't THAT heavy.

Just cruising my photobucket and found an old pic
Dunno Brother, mine rests at 36lbs with DH rubber, sketchy plans have the bike, at-best, 34lbs. Slightly less maybe @ 33.5lbs with another type of tire.

Weight loss in concept - sure it can be had through being one of these 'Nancy Boys' w/ these Chinese Carbon Fibre rims, it's just one rock shotput to the side as is popular on many trails - they're done. Those are single-layup wheels, and 1/4 the cost of ENVE's for a reason.

But whatever though, I'm a bigger fella and if this bike gets too light and wispy it'd quickly become disproportionate to my being the one riding.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
Yah i dont buy the 35 lbs with coils front and rear and heavy tires. Im running a lyrik coil, 2x10, dropper post, rear air, 1700g wheelset(hopes with arch ex), gravity lite cranks, dhf exo tires tubeless and im a hair under 34.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
Yah i dont buy the 35 lbs with coils front and rear and heavy tires. Im running a lyrik coil, 2x10, dropper post, rear air, 1700g wheelset(hopes with arch ex), gravity lite cranks, dhf exo tires tubeless and im a hair under 34.
My wheelset will weigh similar, if I run air fork and shock with 1x9 and no dropper I should have no problem hitting 32.

Muddy - its really not that hard to list your bike spec, no need to be a sour puss. There's a reason there is 3400 bikes on the Vital bike check.
 

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,032
907
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
My wheelset will weigh similar, if I run air fork and shock with 1x9 and no dropper I should have no problem hitting 32.

Muddy - its really not that hard to list your bike spec, no need to be a sour puss. There's a reason there is 3400 bikes on the Vital bike check.
Frame - 1997 Schwinn Home Grown Red
Fork - Rock Shox Judy elastomer 63mm
Crankset - Shimano XT ISIS square taper w/o washers. Saves weight and ankles in my Vans lowtops.
Pedals - SR Speed Trap w/ TROG cages - try finding a set bitches
Chain - SedisSport 3/32"
Chainring - Sugino 42T - Blue anodized
Cassette - Shimano XT
Brakes - Dia Compe Tech 5 levers bent with an old seatpost to reach
- Mountain Bike inners, w/ Teflon
- Mathauser finned brake pads
- XT cantilever front, Dia Compe MX990 rear, hole drilled through the seattube, tapped, and a barrel adjustor feeding the cable.
Rims - Chrome plated Araya - no cleaning brake pads
Hubs - GT Race Lace 36H chrome hollow cro-mo axles, aluminum hardware
Spokes - Stella w/ anodized nipples. Frogback Green.
Seat - Kashimax Aero
Seatpost - GT Layback, cut back except for 1 1/2 inch or layback. Cro-mo.
Seat Clamp - Dia Compe hinged
Headset - GT EPOCH Race
Stem - DK 53mm Pro
Handlebars - AZONIC/O'Neal 28"
Grips - A'ME Unitron Grey/White
Tires - IRC - Gray 2.25"
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
Has anybody had fitment issues when putting an aftermarket shock on? I got my Vivid air and went to install it, and it was ~1-1.5mm too long. It is labeled directly on the shock as being a 222mm, which converts to 8.74. Seeing as the 6 point uses a 8.75, I don't see how this could be possible. I compressed the shock by hand to get the mounting hardware in, and upon further inspection it appears the bottom edge of the lower link comes in contact with a weld on the ISCG tabs, causing the swingarm not to extend fully by a mere cock hair, which was causing the cramped shock space. Wondering if anyone else has experienced this? To me it appears to be a matter of excess filler metal when the tabs were welded on. I wasn't worried about it but when I pumped the shock to proper PSI and did a very scientific squishy test, you can ever so slightly feel that contact occurring when it rebounds back. Probably won't be phsyically noticeable when riding, but I still don't like it. Contemplating filing a bit of material away on either the link, or the weld bead. I am more inclined to take it from the link, since there is more material. Any thoughts?
 
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Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Measure the extended e2e yourself just to be sure. If it is indeed 8.75 I'd file the material from the weld bead rather than the link, if it appears that the weld is not supporting anything other than the ISCG tabs (which are generally sturdy on IH frames).

I don't think you're going to cause any harm by removing a very small amount of material from either part, as long as you make sure your work is sanded smooth and has no sharp depressions that may cause stress risers. If you're concerned the amount is too great for one part then take a little off both instead, however it sounds like it's not much in this case.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
Measure the extended e2e yourself just to be sure. If it is indeed 8.75 I'd file the material from the weld bead rather than the link, if it appears that the weld is not supporting anything other than the ISCG tabs (which are generally sturdy on IH frames).

I don't think you're going to cause any harm by removing a very small amount of material from either part, as long as you make sure your work is sanded smooth and has no sharp depressions that may cause stress risers. If you're concerned the amount is too great for one part then take a little off both instead, however it sounds like it's not much in this case.
Thanks for the reply. I will take it off and measure e2e just to be sure. Assuming the shock is indeed 8.75, that would mean the DHX3 I took off was a hair short, because I didn't run into any difficulties removing it. I don't imagine the Vivid will be too long, as the next size up is 240mm. A bit confused by it all.
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
I am going to measure the distance between the upper and lower shock mounts as well, to see if that indeed measures 8.75.
 

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,032
907
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
Thanks for the reply. I will take it off and measure e2e just to be sure. Assuming the shock is indeed 8.75, that would mean the DHX3 I took off was a hair short, because I didn't run into any difficulties removing it. I don't imagine the Vivid will be too long, as the next size up is 240mm. A bit confused by it all.
The 7Point is the frame made around the 8.75" shock, the 6Point - the 8.5" shock.

No offense, but it'd be more less confusing if the Iron Horse/DW*Link Thread was viewed -- everything in this thread for information has already been covered. Everything.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,919
borcester rhymes
The 7Point is the frame made around the 8.75" shock, the 6Point - the 8.5" shock.

No offense, but it'd be more less confusing if the Iron Horse/DW*Link Thread was viewed -- everything in this thread for information has already been covered. Everything.
that thread is only 105 pages long and has over 4100 posts, and no longer frequented by a lot of people. I'm sure the information he needs is nicely condensed and easy to find. rolleyes.jpg
 

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
127
92SER - That makes me feel a little better, thanks for sharing.

Skullcrack - Looks great! Was considering rawing mine and polishing it to match my DW DHR but the paint was in such good condition I left it the way it was. But this makes me think otherwise haha

Muddy - None taken. I hope you can reciprocate and not take offense when I say you're an idiot and a doosh bag. You should go to mtbr, you'll fit right in.
 
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Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
Yep, the shock on the 6point is 8.75x2.5 and the 7point is 8.75x2.75. I rode a 6point8 loaner for a while back in the day and it was a fun bike. I don't recall it being all that heavy though - air front and rear, light-ish wheels and components.