[Gary]

I have only ridden the bike once since building it and on my third run (Fort William world cup DH track) the main pivot snapped.
I've just stripped and replaced the pivot bolt assembly, the part that snapped is the threaded steel bar. the bar had an hex hole in the end for an allen key and this is where it snapped. the replacement pivot bolt assembly that I got from the UK importer came with a solid solid steel bolt with no allen key hole.

is this likely to be a weak point?, I'm thinking of getting the two alloy pieces drilled so I can just use a strong steel bolt and nylock nut to hold it all together just to be sure - overkill I know, but better to be safe and all that.... Did Iron horse change that steel bar at some point knowing it to be a weak point?

Are their any other weak bolts on the frame I should be aware of? or any prone to loosening, I should threadlock? the headset on the bike came with hardly any grease in it, so I don't think the frame assemblers in the factory did a great job.

also what is the lower shock mount all about? I heard E13 had designed it all to be extra stiff, but the reducer is 2 piece and the split is right in the middle - totally dumb. I've managed to bottom the bike so hard that the cross brace on the linkage now has a dent from where the rebound adjuster on the shock hit it. I replaced the the actual bolt with a much stronger version than the stock one and it is still straight.

 

[dhmtbj]

I saw a good number of those go this season, seems they need to have a deeper thread in there or just to make it of steel or something.

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

the bolts that keep the mech hanger on are short and often come out and should be replaced with longer ones. It hasnt happened to me yet but heard it is common.

the rebound adjuster can be moved 180 degrees Remove the lower shock bolt.
Insert screw driver thru eyelet. Turn eyelet 180 degs.
Re-attach shock.

 

[heikkihall]

I have no idea what is up with those things. I can only think that they got exremely unlucky and got a bad shipment of hardware or something. I ran an 03 stock all last season. When this season came around I kept the same bike but upgraded the rear end to an 04 but I kept all the same hardware. I never had any problems. On a few rare occasions Ive heard of people snapping that bolt doing the most simple things I can immagine on the bike, but the majority of the riders who have them havent had a single problem. Its gotta just be a weak set of hardware.

 

[Gary]

Lumpy - yeah, I've twisted the lower eyelet 180 now. did yours hit the brace too?
ta for the tip on the mech hanger bolts.

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

I twisted it as soon as I got it, I read the same problem and solution on the iron horse section of the mtbr board. Its a little annying having the rebound adjuster upside down though.

I havent taken apart the headset thinking it would be okay, so thanks for tip, looks like a little grease will be needed.

I havent got the longer mech hangar bolts yet though, it is wierd that they ahve a phillips head on them though.

Which bike did u get btw, I imported a DH team from the US to the UK. I am guessing you did similar.

 

[Gary]

I never ever touch the dials once I have it set-up how I like it so I don't really need to be able to turn adjusters.
yeah I imported a PRO. didn't think the team was as good a deal as the boxxer race is easliy & cheaply upgradable (Black is nicer though.
). cost £1200 inc 3 day post & Duty etc. would have been even cheaper if it had been in 1 box.
have you tried un-doing those bolts? mine are actually fer too tight to undo, I'll just stick a piece of gaffer tape over them and keep an eye on them til I can get new ones.

have you dealt with Pearce's yet? they were cool about sorting me new parts - had to pay for them though.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

The hanger bolts you can find at you local hardware store. They won't be counter-sunk, but they will work just fine. I believe they are 5mm philips. I haven't had a problem with my main pivot retainer breaking as of yet. Like posted above, it must have just been a bad shipment. The lower shock bolt took some new hardware and a bit of tweeking to get the clunk out, but other than that, the bike is golden!

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

Mine cost £1600, I kinda got it for the black and the teams. I thought the world cup wasnt worth getting, particularly as the yellow is vile.

Pedals really well, I only got it a few weeks ago and have only used it once and that was at bringewood where it was as muddy as hell and I kept the minions on so I spent most of the afternoon on my ass. Im off to Hopton tommorow with some mud 3's so it will be my first proper ride.

I swapped the bars and stem though as I like a 2.5 and a short as possible stem and the stem kept twisting when i crashed.

Which bolts are u referrring to? the mech hangar?

Pearce run the uplifts that I go too, but havent had a need to deal with them yet, although I dont get the nrebound adjuster on the boxxers, I turned it towards the "rabbit" to increase the rebound and all it did was unscrew the bolt, i.e. it started to show thread which I thought was strange

 

[Pedalist]

Go to a machine shop and have them make you some fastners. I did that on my Bullit.

 

[Gary]

yeah, pedals ridiculously well.
taking mine to innerleithen tomorrow, you never need muds there

I've done an uplift day with pearce at ludlow too, excellent value!!

yeah, I'm referring to the hanger bolts.

swapped my bars for protapers and a 55mm stem, didn't like the bend/rise on the the stock bars either.

the rebound adjuster is actually inside the fork, the 5 mm bolt on the bottom has a hole in it you need to insert a small (2.5mm I think) allen key through it to adjust the rebound.
you should have gotten a wee allen key in the bag with rockshox manual

 

[Jm_]

yeah, quality seems to have taken a crapper in some areas. I convinced my friend to get an 04 SGS FR Pro because it was such a "great deal" and a "great bike", but within 1 serious ride the manitou shock bushings developed play and I took the park rear-end alignment tool and found out that the rear end was 1/2" out of alignment (no big drops or jumps have been done on it yet). I know my SGS DH is in alignment and working great, but I feel sorry for my buddy because this bike is starting to cause him some troubles. I hope that IH warrenty takes care of it.

 

[Gary]

frame alignment is not all that big a deal while actually riding.
I rode a frame that with a misaligned rear end for all last season and the year before.
incedentally so did the whole UK muddyfox team. Dan and Gee were just as quick then.

 

[dw]

yeah, quality seems to have taken a crapper in some areas. I convinced my friend to get an 04 SGS FR Pro because it was such a "great deal" and a "great bike", but within 1 serious ride the manitou shock bushings developed play and I took the park rear-end alignment tool and found out that the rear end was 1/2" out of alignment (no big drops or jumps have been done on it yet). I know my SGS DH is in alignment and working great, but I feel sorry for my buddy because this bike is starting to cause him some troubles. I hope that IH warrenty takes care of it.

I really cant agree with you on your point JM, I mean, if your friend has a frame that is out by 1/2 inch, that is DEFINITELY an isolated incident, and not indicative in any way of quality as a whole.

Let me explain why I can say this with confidence. I talk to the guys at Iron Horse about warrrantys all the time tring to learn what the falings of previous models were, so I have a pretty good handle on what is going on with those bikes. The reality of the situation is that Iron Horse's quality (which is linked directly with the frame factory's capability) has shot through the roof. Warrantys are at an all time low. I personally spend time working with the factory engineers to improve their manufacturing and QC practices, adn it has shown in the IH line for sure. Also, other US and European companies that use the same factories push for the same improvements, so quality is on a rise for everyone really.

Early in the season, my speculation is that it looks like the bolt manufacturer who supplies bolts to the frame factory may have shipped a short run of bolts that maybe were not up to spec. I have not been able to actually test any bolts, so that is total speculation, but I do know that the bolt factory builds head bolts for engines, etc...,so they are obviously a high quality manufacturer, and that there were no issues with all 2001-2003 frames, and most 2004 frames. It seriouisly had to be a bad partial batch. The same EXACT main pivot bolt is used on many Norco frames also. I guess thats proof that any company can have a bad day.

Although I am sorry to hear that your friend had an issue, the reality of the situation is that it is a very isolated incident that I am sure Iron Horse customer support will want to help him with.

Ride on!

Dave

 

[Gary]

dw - are you able to shed some light on the flawed design of the E13 linkage and cross brace? and the dumb lower shock mount hardware?

 

[heikkihall]

dw - are you able to shed some light on the flawed design of the E13 linkage and cross brace? and the dumb lower shock mount hardware?

Could you possibly be more descriptive with your issues with the linkage? I ran mine all season long and have had no problems what so ever. I also tried my very best to check out most of the SGS bikes that I saw throughout the year to make sure everything was running smoothly and I never encountered an issue. I cant understand what could be causing anything wrong with yours.

 

[Gary]

the cross brace on the linkage hits the rebound adjuster on the shock when fully bottomed out.

I did describe this in the original post, maybe it wasn't clear

also what is the lower shock mount all about? I heard E13 had designed it all to be extra stiff, but the reducer is 2 piece and the split is right in the middle - totally dumb. I've managed to bottom the bike so hard that the cross brace on the linkage now has a dent from where the rebound adjuster on the shock hit it. I replaced the actual bolt with a much stronger version than the stock one and it is still straight.

 

[dw]

dw - are you able to shed some light on the flawed design of the E13 linkage and cross brace? and the dumb lower shock mount hardware?

Sorry, I am not aware of any flaw in the design of the 3-piece link/ crossbrace. Its pretty simple, you bolt it together, and the link becomes a single piece. There has not been one warranty, failure, or issue that I have heard of. I dont expect one either. The 3-piece link kit (which consists of 2 side plates, a cross tube, and 2 bolts) is pretty insanley overbuilt. As long as the bolts are tight, its pretty impossible for anything to happen to it, good bad or indifferent.

Shock hardware is a completely seperate item from the link, and is not included with the e.thirteen link kit. Shock hardware is also different for 2003 and 2004 SGS frames, as well as 5th element, and Swinger bikes. I cant comment on the tolerances of shock pivot bearings. That isnt something that Iron Horse has data on or can control.

Sorry

Dave

 

[dw]

the cross brace on the linkage hits the rebound adjuster on the shock when fully bottomed out.

I did describe this in the original post, maybe it wasn't clear

also what is the lower shock mount all about? I heard E13 had designed it all to be extra stiff, but the reducer is 2 piece and the split is right in the middle - totally dumb. I've managed to bottom the bike so hard that the cross brace on the linkage now has a dent from where the rebound adjuster on the shock hit it. I replaced the actual bolt with a much stronger version than the stock one and it is still straight.

You have your shock rebound adjuster assembled on the wrong side. Unbolt the shock, turn the shaft 180 degrees and re-bolt. Its a pretty simple job.

Replacement hardware for your bike is available from Iron Hore most likely. All 5th Element bikes have 1 piece hardware, not sure about Swinger bikes. This is the reason that for 2005 and beyond, Iron Horse has commited to performing all of its own engineering development work in house. The Sunday is a product of that new approach.

Best Regards and have fun!

Dave

 

[biggins]

dude crap breaks on bikes all the time. especially dh/freeride bikes. the iron horse in no exception. however i have an sgs and i think it is one of the smoothest riding bikes and performs great and my frame is the lower end no e-13 linkage. mine has seen it all and is still going strong. i now have a yeti a-sx on the way to replace it and the only reason for that is that i cant afford the new iron horse and the 7 inch single pivot one doesnt come in a frame only option.

as for DW thanks for being cool and rockin with the iron horse gang. saw the new mountain bike quarterly (rodale i think) had a review of the sunday series bikes and a big fat pic of the DW linkage. cool stuff.

 

[biggins]

here is a pic of mine rode hard and hung up muddy. i will never say a bad word about those bikes. they rock the house.

 

[Jm_]

Although I am sorry to hear that your friend had an issue, the reality of the situation is that it is a very isolated incident that I am sure Iron Horse customer support will want to help him with.

Ride on!

Dave

I'm expecting good things. IH took care of me just fine.

James

 

[dw]

Oh cool, that is good to hear. Thanks for the update James

 

[dw]

as for DW thanks for being cool and rockin with the iron horse gang. saw the new mountain bike quarterly (rodale i think) had a review of the sunday series bikes and a big fat pic of the DW linkage. cool stuff.

Thanks B! Ive had a lot of fun working with the IH guys over the last couple of years, they have been good to me.

 

[Pip3r]

After riding one for a whole season and getting out on it almost every weekend ive found only some tiny things im not crazy about on it.
The derailur hanger is sketchy (2 screws holding it in that only have like 3 threads). But I must say ive never had mine come out and havnt done any mods to it (putting longer screws in) like I had origionally planned. I just check to make sure the screws are tight every weekend.
That main pivot bolt does seem weird. The bolt holding the 2 cups together I think may need to be longer. But again, I personally havnt had any problems with mine. My buddy busted one and i gave him mine, but still IH was cool enough to send me 2 extras that i have kicking around which is the only reason I know about this. Like I said, i havnt had any problems with it what so ever though.
And the only other thing Ive found I dont like is the big head tube on the 04. I think 90% of the people out there dont really need it. But thats totally personal preferance. Im sure Dave has #'s to back it up how much stronger that design is, I just feel that for myself i dont need that added strength and would rather have more turning radius.
Those are really the only things Ive found, and none of them are a big deal. This bike put me on the poduim in all but 1 race this year and totally turned me into a racer boy.
Ill still be rocking out on it next year as well.

 

[Gary]

DW - "You have your shock rebound adjuster assembled on the wrong side."

Thanks for explaining, I know the linkage looks more than up to the job, just couldn't understand why it hadn't been designed not to foul the shock adjuster.

just got back from a day riding the bike. no problems whatsoever and yes it is a great bike!! easily the most solid fsr link bike I've ever tried, and it pedals incredibly well I actually rode it back up the hill.

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

unfortunately I now have a problem, on the drive side there is a bolt that sticks out of the frame, this bolt is placed just by the pivot and faces outwards towards the top of the chaindevice, I have no idea as to the purpose of the bolt that is sticking out, but it has rubbed paint and aluminium off the swingarm as the frame has compressed...........why is it there? and how do i stop it rubbing?

 

[Gary]

there's a lug on the frame in that area for bolting the inner plate/boomerang of some shain devices to (to stop them rotating if hit). but if you are using the ISCG E13 that came with the bike the lug won't be used. ie. there shouldn't be a bolt in it (just a threaded hole)
mine doesn't foul the swingarm at all, you can test to see if yours does by removing the spring , replacing the shock without spring and bottoming the shock out.
the paint wear could be because of a stone or some other trail debris getting lodged between the lug and the swingarm. if it's a common problem hacksaw the lug off and plug the hole.