[IH8Rice]

Is it entirely a bad thing if UAW kills itself?

hells no!
i think GM and Chrysler will play Dr. Kevorkian for the UAW

 

[$tinkle]

hey tom friedman fans: Start Up the Risk-Takers

Reading the news that General Motors and Chrysler are now lining up for another $20 billion or so in government aid — on top of the billions they’ve already received or requested — leaves me with the sick feeling that we are subsidizing the losers and for only one reason: because they claim that their funerals would cost more than keeping them on life support. Sorry, friends, but this is not the American way. Bailing out the losers is not how we got rich as a country, and it is not how we’ll get out of this crisis.

G.M. has become a giant wealth- destruction machine — possibly the biggest in history — and it is time that it and Chrysler were put into bankruptcy so they can truly start over under new management with new labor agreements and new visions. When it comes to helping companies, precious public money should focus on start-ups, not bailouts.

 

[Toshi]

 

[ohio]

Go subie!

 

[Toshi]

Go subie!

when the price of granola and hemp clothing goes up due to hyperinflation they're screwed...

 

[IH8Rice]

another month that Subaru is one of the only car companies still making money. i believe that makes 4 months in a row if im not mistake

 

[$tinkle]

my buddy who does car loans says heuberger subie is the place to go. you'll get a great deal & great follow up svc. probably the only dealer on the front range about whom this can be said.

oh, they're also #1 in the universe in sales. go figure.

 

[jonKranked]

another month that Subaru is one of the only car companies still making money. i believe that makes 4 months in a row if im not mistake

did they make a deal with the devil or something?

 

[$tinkle]

i knew something was fishy when a deluge of GM work came in recently. i looked closer at the purchase order info & it said to the effect: rate is deeply discounted; no expenses will be paid. get mgr approval before applying for this gig

i think they're well beyond turning over couch cushions for loose change.

 

[jonKranked]

i knew something was fishy when a deluge of GM work came in recently. i looked closer at the purchase order info & it said to the effect: rate is deeply discounted; no expenses will be paid. get mgr approval before applying for this gig

i think they're well beyond turning over couch cushions for loose change.

What kind of work was it?

 

[$tinkle]

ones & zeroes

 

[dante]

Go subie!

That's a really weird mix at the top. You've got Subaru which does sporty, all-around cars, then Kia/Hyundai which make sense due to their perceived "value", then Porsche (??) and MINI (premium brands) and another all-around brand in VW. It seems like the Truck/SUV sales are still plummeting, and any manufacturer that's tied to them (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Big 3, etc) are struggling as well.

 

[ohio]

That's a really weird mix at the top. You've got Subaru which does sporty, all-around cars, then Kia/Hyundai which make sense due to their perceived "value", then Porsche (??) and MINI (premium brands) and another all-around brand in VW. It seems like the Truck/SUV sales are still plummeting, and any manufacturer that's tied to them (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Big 3, etc) are struggling as well.

If i had to guess, Subaru is still benefiting from a massive downsizing as people shed their SUVs. Kia and Hyundai are doing relatively well for obvious reasons... it pays to appeal to shrewdness at this point.

I would think Porsche's success is from the Cayenne as it represents the "responsible purchase" for the upper income set. They are in a sweet spot where they are not considered ultra-luxury, so the wealthy still feel they can buy them without being conspicuous.

I'd agree on your assessment of anyone that put eggs in the truck/SUV basket, but also realize that being low on that list might mean you were doing phenomenally well last year.

 

[IH8Rice]

, then Porsche (??) and MINI (premium brands) and another all-around brand in VW. It seems like the Truck/SUV sales are still plummeting, and any manufacturer that's tied to them (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Big 3, etc) are struggling as well.

Porsche has always had success in the market. they were one of the only companies who were still showing profit in years past. Porsche has grown so strong, that they are buying their parent company, the VW Group....how often do you see a company buying its parent company? never, but due to their high profitability, they did

 

[CRoss]

Not sure if this has been posted.

Looks like someone told GM what is up to bad we know GM will not listen.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/knox.asp

 

[SkaredShtles]

Let's make sure we're clear about the answer to the thread title:

GM IS TEH FOOKED.

 

[blue]

Porsche has always had success in the market. they were one of the only companies who were still showing profit in years past. Porsche has grown so strong, that they are buying their parent company, the VW Group....how often do you see a company buying its parent company? never, but due to their high profitability, they did

VWAG has never owned Porsche at any point. They have, however, always had a close relationship...And now Porsche is buying VW.

 

[Toshi]

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/03/honda_storing_unsold_cars_at_f.html

CLEVELAND — When Henry Ford II opened his company's Lorain Assembly Plant in 1958, he might have imagined row after row of gleaming new vehicles filling its lot for decades to come.

Though the plant closed in 2005, its lot is again brimming with brand-new, shiny vehicles.

Only, they're not Fords. They're Hondas.

As many as 10,000 Honda cars, minivans and crossovers that Honda can't sell could soon be parked at the former plant, waiting for auto sales to break out of their months-long slump.

 

[ridiculous]

 

[Toshi]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cs-firstboston-on-car-market-nsfw-and-fan-are-colliding/

Our regular CS FirstBoston mole has sent us an update on their analysis of the U.S. new car market. Bottom line: it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets even worserer. So, he asked rhetorically, is this a good time for the taxpayer to “loan” money to Chrysler and GM? Only if you define “good” as “worst possible.” Sorry, was I talking about ROI? My bad. In terms of bailing out automakers without a hope in hell of turning a profit for years to come, these are the good old days.

• We are slashing our forecast for 2009 light vehicle sales to 10.4 million units, down from 12.0 million units previously. Details of the changes in the factors that plug into our demand model and account for the revision are as follows:


• Unemployment rate. Labor market developments have been worse than expected, resulting in an increase in our 2009 unemployment rate forecast to 8.8%, from 8.2% (full year average).

• Real income growth. Our forecast for 2009 real disposable personal income growth falls to 0.8%, from 2.5%, partly reflecting higher unemployment and partly as a result of a disappointing economic and tax stimulus package

• Home price growth. Our home price growth forecast slips to a decline of 7.0%, from our previous forecast of down 5.0%. The FHFA House Price Index posted a decline of 4.5% in 4Q08, and recent NAR data suggests declines are accelerating in Q1.

• The outlook for 2009 production is similarly impaired. We now expect North American output of 9.2 million units in 2009, down from our previous view of 10.6 million. We will introduce new quarterly production estimates in mid-April, as part of our Q1 earnings preview report.

• We are also issuing a revised longer term U.S. sales forecast calling for 12.5 million units in 2010 (down from prior 13.3 million) and 13.8 million units in 2010 (down from prior view of 14.1 million).

• Our new sales forecasts exclude any would-be effect from a possible scrappage program that provides government incentives for consumers to replace older vehicles with new, more fuel efficient models. The current proposal in Congress is likely to be viewed as expensive and protectionist, in our view, and faces formidable hurdles to becoming law.

• We also believe that the TALF program will not result in a meaningful increase in demand, as the deterioration in employment and consumer confidence may trump an increase in credit availability.

• Our Consumer Watch Scorecard was mixed in the latest update, with four factors improving and four deteriorating. The overall implications for light vehicle demand are still severely negative, with all eight Scorecard factors in the Minus column.

 

[ire]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cs-firstboston-on-car-market-nsfw-and-fan-are-colliding/

so......now isn't a good time to buy GM stock??

 

[stoney]

If that report hasn't been released, which I haven't seen, someone just broke about 5 MAJOR SEC regulations regarding pre-releasing research, insider trading, etc...

 

[$tinkle]

i think we can save gm after all. go here -> http://ipromiseamerica.com/

The Pledge:

I promise America that, on my honor, when I buy a new vehicle, it will be a Detroit-born, Big Three (Ford, GM or Chrysler) automobile.

<donation app goes here>

Donate any amount. Your donation helps defray the cost of putting on the Assembly Line Concert. As a thank you, any donation of $5 or more will get you a gift card for one cup of AJ's Ferndalian blend coffee and a bumper sticker from the Assembly Line Concert. A portion of the proceeds will be donated to laid off Michigan autoworkers. Thank you for your $5 suggested donation.

a penny for their thoughts indeed

 

[X3pilot]

A portion of the proceeds will be donated to laid off Michigan autoworkers.

the very same ones who get 90% of their pay for sitting in a union hall playing cards, sleeping or surfing the net while they undergo "training"?

It's tough out there for pimp..

 

[DaveW]

Maybe its just me but there really does seem to be a sense of self entitlement at anyone else's expense combined with a total denial of any kind of personal responsibility for ones actions..... Can't believe that folks over in the states are allowed to just walk away from mortgages?????
Dude your the one who agreed to pay that much for it...... so it's your fault not the banks.
"The bigger the fail the greater the rewards" is the credo of the corporates
"I was to lazy to think that purchase thru, therefore it's not my fault or problem" is the credo for joe public the debtor.

It really doesn't matter what the government does, as long as people have those attitudes your just going to end up in the same moronic situation again.

 

[Defenestrated]

Dave why do you hate the American Dream? /sarcasm

 

[DaveW]

I can't help it, I was brain washed as a child into being an egalitarian socialist (aka an un american pinko freedom hater...... And foreign to boot!).

 

[jonKranked]

Dear GM,

Please do something other than complain, make excuses, and ask for money. I'm tired of hearing about you on the news. Its time to sh*t or get off the pot.

Sincerely,
JonKranked

 

[IH8Rice]

their complaining seems to be working. the government keeps handing out band aids in the form of cash

 

[jonKranked]

their complaining seems to be working. the government keeps handing out band aids in the form of cash

Someone should give them a bandaid in the form of a scud missile.

 

[X3pilot]

Dear GM,

Please do something other than complain, make excuses, and ask for money. I'm tired of hearing about you on the news. Its time to sh*t or get off the pot.

Sincerely,
JonKranked

But we need to hear stuff like this. A little mini-AIG scandal brewing?

But even as the company asks for more taxpayer loans, there's one perk GM refuses to give up: a company car and company-paid gas for about 8,000 white-collar employees.

Link

 

[stevew]

who will obama's guy be to run GM now that he has forced rick wagoner out?

hire a union boss?

 

[IH8Rice]

who will obama's guy be to run GM now that he has forced rick wagoner out?

hire a union boss?

it wont matter who gets the job next. im pretty sure itll be someone from within the company tho.

companies that are dying cant place their full blame on their CEO's...but they are the easiest to point your fingers at.

 

[Defenestrated]

GM's priorities are disgusting.

 

[IH8Rice]

i cant wait to see what their new "business plan" will be on tuesday. im sure theyll ask for more money of course...and Obama will throw more money to them.

 

[IH8Rice]

..and Obama will throw more money to them.

of course....
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090329/AUTO01/903290337/1148/rss25

 

[jonKranked]

Can the executive branch really force someone out of their job? Idk if they have that kind of power....



Also, lets have GM headed up by someone fresh out of college. They won't have much experience, but in this case GM would be no worse off.

 

[IH8Rice]

well when the president says he should leave his dying company and when the government is giving thousands of dollars to GM, the board will listen to the prez im sure.

 

[jimmydean]

Can the executive branch really force someone out of their job? Idk if they have that kind of power....

I think it's more of a suggestion that he leave, sort of like Guido suggests you pay back the money you borrowed.

 

[IH8Rice]

highlights from Obama's speech

- Gov't will give GM adequate working capital to survive next 60 days

- Working capital up to $6 billion will be provided to Chrysler for next 30 days, during which time an acceptable deal with Fiat must be struck

- Chapter 11 bankruptcy still an option

- NEW TAX BENEFIT (for vehicle's purchased between 2/16 and end of year): Deduct cost of any sales tax or excise tax.

- Cash for Clunkers incentive (get money to trade in old car and buy new one): Obama wants to make this happen and make it retroactive, work with Congress to carve out funds from Recovery Act to pay for it.

- Designating a new Director of Recovery for Auto Communities and Workers


- Auto industry has shed over 400,000 jobs in the past year, Michigan has 10% unemployment rate

- "We cannot and must not, and will not, let our auto industry vanish."

NOTE: DOW down 275 points at 11:11 AM EST

- Companies must stand on their own, not as ward's of the state

- Neither restructuring "plan" goes far enough to warrant substantial new investment each company is requesting

- GM/Chrysler being offered limited, additional period of time to fundamentally restructure in a way that would justify new investment from government.

- Sounds like the administration is basically giving each automaker more time to restructure and another deadline to submit another progress report to justify more investment.

- Committed to working with Congress and automakers to meet one goal: "United States of America will lead the world in building the next generation of clean cars."

- Obama going through list of accolades that U.S. automakers have received for their "green" cars.

- "Our auto industry is not moving in the right direction fast enough to succeed in a very tough environment."

- Obama is now going to go over what each automaker needs to do...

GM
- Current GM plan is not strong enough
- Confident GM can rise again if it undergoes fundamental restructuring
- Rick Wagoner stepping aside is first step
- Not a condemnation of Wagoner, recognition that company needs new vision
- Gov't will give GM adequate working capital to survive next 60 days
- Criteria GM has to meet includes A) consolidating enough on profitable brands, B) cleaning up balance sheets, C) business model to survive and succeed in this competitive global market.

- "Let me be clear, the U.S. government has no interest in running GM."

Chrysler
- Situation more challenging
- Partner required to remain viable (Fiat)
- Fiat will give Chrysler technology and build cars and engines in the U.S.
- Chrysler will repay tax payers before Fiat can take majority stake in company
- Working capital up to $6 billion will be provided to Chrysler for next 30 days, during which time an acceptable deal with Fiat must be struck
- If no agreement with Fiat happens and no other partner steps up, Chrysler gets no more money


- Chapter 11 bankruptcy still an option, Obama is being very careful to explain what "bankruptcy" means, i.e. restructuring, clearing away old debts, companies remain open and workers employed.

- U.S. government will stand behind warranties of GM and Chrysler cars.

What gov't will do to support demand for auto sales...
- Gov't will make sure funds to purchase gov't cars will be paid as soon as possible
- Accelerate Treasury Dept's Consumer and Business Lending Initiative
- Work with auto finance company's to increase available credit

- NEW TAX BENEFIT (for vehicle's purchased between 2/16 and end of year): Deduct cost of any sales tax or excise tax.

- Cash for Clunkers incentive (get money to trade in old car and buy new one): Obama wants to make this happen and make it retroactive, work with Congress to carve out funds from Recovery Act to pay for it.

- Obama ending with speech directly to working people: "I will fight for you."

- Compares auto industry crisis to natural disaster, "Damage is clear and we must likewise respond."

- Designating a new Director of Recovery for Auto Communities and Workers to "cut through red tape". Ed Montgomery appointed, former Deputy Labor Secretary. Will provide support to auto workers and their families (not sure how, though). Apparently he'll have access to Recovery Act money.