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Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
i work for a fortune 500 company w/ a third of a million employees, and is almost half a century old. so how did i swing my awesome healthcare & 100% 401(k) matching up to 6% of my competitive base pay?

last i checked, i'm not out any union dues.
You are probably in a high-skilled position, so they can't just replace you like they can with low-skilled labor. You have inherent bargaining power because there are less people that can do what you do, while factory workers have much less bargaining power since what they do is less skilled. Without knowing how pay, sick days, vacation days, etc. we can't do a comparison against a Scandinavian white collar union member.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
last i checked, i'm not out any union dues.
Also would they still be viable if total compensation was 2/3rds more than the industry average and the average employee productivity was below the rest in the country in that industry.

It is a significant part of the problem, no doubt.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
You are probably in a high-skilled position, so they can't just replace you like they can with low-skilled labor. You have inherent bargaining power because there are less people that can do what you do, while factory workers have much less bargaining power since what they do is less skilled. Without knowing how pay, sick days, vacation days, etc. we can't do a comparison against a Scandinavian white collar union member.
there's not much in ways of bargaining power in today's workforce, esp for sw engineers like me. my prev project replaced my position w/ 2 n00bz straight outta uni, in the hopes of grooming them to be one of me (for the same 5 yr est cost). luckily, i was a subcontractor & have been covered by the mothership for the past yr on short term gigs. i've essentially been 40% employed & 100% compensated in the interim, with no end in sight.

while i'm the exception, i'm certainly not unheard of in my circumstances
 

Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
if you think you're expendable as an engineer, imagine being a bolt tightener on some massive assembly line

it must be a pretty ****ty feeling knowing you're worthless... even faceless as far as the employer is concerned
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
So get another job, or get an education offering you more opportunities. It's really quite simple. Community college / skill programs do not cost a fortune. Hell, many of the workers I know at car plants in quebec (there are quite a few) do not even have high school diplomas.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
So get another job, or get an education offering you more opportunities. It's really quite simple. Community college / skill programs do not cost a fortune. Hell, many of the workers I know at car plants in quebec (there are quite a few) do not even have high school diplomas.
Getting another job in this climate if you aren't educated is hard, and many people can't afford to go to community college full-time. Lets say that you only take evening classes, 5pm-10pm a couple days a week, it will take about 4 years before you can get an Associate's degree.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Getting another job in this climate if you aren't educated is hard, and many people can't afford to go to community college full-time. Lets say that you only take evening classes, 5pm-10pm a couple days a week, it will take about 4 years before you can get an Associate's degree.
I have no sympathy for people who are not even willing to attempt to improve their situation, whether through education or through making compromises. I went to school and worked full time through 2 high level degrees. Many people do. BS excuse.

Also, getting GED will go a long way and takes pretty much no time at all. Some people are just not willing to put in an effort.
 
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IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
I have no sympathy for people who are not even willing to attempt to improve their situation, whether through education or through making compromises. I went to school and worked full time through 2 high level degrees. Many people do. BS excuse.

Also, getting GED will go a long way and takes pretty much no time at all. Some people are just not willing to put in an effort.
:clapping::clapping:

we need a standing ovation .gif

im suprised companies in canada hire people w/out their GED or high school diploma, but i guess if youre tightening bolt A into hole X, then you dont need a edumacation.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,589
3,118
The bunker at parliament
:clapping::clapping:

we need a standing ovation .gif

im suprised companies in canada hire people w/out their GED or high school diploma, but i guess if youre tightening bolt A into hole X, then you dont need a edumacation.


This does explain a bit about the build quality of the few American vehicles that get brought down here........ :twitch:
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
well he also bit a ear off too....do you have any idea how hard it is to bite a ear off?


oh wait, its probably easy if he did it
I said CAN, not SHOULD. I can go to prison and convert my faith too, but doesn't mean I should.

The GED is a joke to get, but can lead to other things. I got mine when I was 16 and went on to get my AAS, then by BSCS, and am now 2 semesters into my MBA (at 37, but still).
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
Back on topic:

To get a feel for just how hosed GM is, look at the Aveo.

Being a cheap bastard, I tend to rent small cars. My wife and I rented a car for the weekend and they gave us an Aveo. It was brand new, and a total turd. The interior was crap, the level of road noise was awful, it rode like a brick. We drove it about 10 miles before returning it.

When we got back to the rental car place, they said "we just got a Yaris, will that work?" Wow, what a vastly different experience. The Yaris was awesome, seriously. If they made a 4 door hatch, I would buy one.

For 2 cars trying to hit the same market, they couldn't be further apart. The Honda Fit is even nicer the the Yaris, but it is about $2000 more. I'm guessing the Yaris is still solid after 5 years vs. the Aveo having a shelf life of about 3 years tops.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Back on topic:

To get a feel for just how hosed GM is, look at the Aveo.

Being a cheap bastard, I tend to rent small cars. My wife and I rented a car for the weekend and they gave us an Aveo. It was brand new, and a total turd. The interior was crap, the level of road noise was awful, it rode like a brick. We drove it about 10 miles before returning it.

When we got back to the rental car place, they said "we just got a Yaris, will that work?" Wow, what a vastly different experience. The Yaris was awesome, seriously. If they made a 4 door hatch, I would buy one.

For 2 cars trying to hit the same market, they couldn't be further apart. The Honda Fit is even nicer the the Yaris, but it is about $2000 more. I'm guessing the Yaris is still solid after 5 years vs. the Aveo having a shelf life of about 3 years tops.
The fit and the yaris 4 door are both great cars, and extremely cheap. I've managed to get gear for 2 people + a DH bike, wheels, tires, spare parts, tools etc into the back of a yaris with the back seat folded down with lots of room to spare.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,638
8,683
Back on topic:

To get a feel for just how hosed GM is, look at the Aveo.

Being a cheap bastard, I tend to rent small cars. My wife and I rented a car for the weekend and they gave us an Aveo. It was brand new, and a total turd. The interior was crap, the level of road noise was awful, it rode like a brick. We drove it about 10 miles before returning it.

When we got back to the rental car place, they said "we just got a Yaris, will that work?" Wow, what a vastly different experience. The Yaris was awesome, seriously. If they made a 4 door hatch, I would buy one.

For 2 cars trying to hit the same market, they couldn't be further apart. The Honda Fit is even nicer the the Yaris, but it is about $2000 more. I'm guessing the Yaris is still solid after 5 years vs. the Aveo having a shelf life of about 3 years tops.
http://www.toyota.com/yaris/index.html

the yaris 5-door hatch (previously canada and foreign markets only) is here in the US this year...
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
Hmmm... I wonder if 3 kids booster seats can fit across the back seat... :think:
My daughters Recaro seat (NOT small) and my son (6'5") fit with the seat in the middle with room on the other side. The only thing about the 2 door was a 4 door would be much easier for her to get in and out of. I guess Toyota figured the Scion xD filled the 4 door hatch market.

The Yaris also had a shoulder belt for the middle seat.

<edit> Good news, Toshi. I drove the Scion xD and liked it, but my wife thought the Yaris was nicer (and cheaper). She drove the Yaris with both kids all the way to my folks house (12 hours) with an overnight in Ashland. Not the best road trip car, but was far from the worst. I took the motorcycle on a coastal view route.
 
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jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
Ha.

Big 3 to carpool next time.

The carpool idea came out of meetings on Friday at Dura Automotive Systems Inc., an auto parts maker in suburban Rochester Hills. President and CEO Tim Leuliette said that during the weekend they contacted the automakers, suppliers, dealership groups and the United Auto Workers and the movement began building.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
the Aveo seemed to be a after thought fro GM...poorly constructed and a under performer.
i rented a HHR for business and it was a total turd. their "cheap" entry level vehicles just dont offer the fit and finish that Japenese makers can provide.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
the Aveo seemed to be a after thought fro GM...poorly constructed and a under performer.
i rented a HHR for business and it was a total turd. their "cheap" entry level vehicles just dont offer the fit and finish that Japenese makers can provide.
I can say that about any American car made after about 1973. My wifes Malibu is 10 years old and has been a total pile. You could drive an Accord that is at least 10 years old with twice the mileage and be much happier.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,638
8,683
You didn't have the yaris hatchback? Hmm.
in a move probably intended to insulate the scion brand toyota only brought the 3-dr hatchback and the sedan Yaris to the u.s. until this year. i was bewildered when i saw 5-dr yarii on the street up north in teh hinterlands of canadia
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
I can say that about any American car made after about 1973. My wifes Malibu is 10 years old and has been a total pile. You could drive an Accord that is at least 10 years old with twice the mileage and be much happier.
there have been models that are good over the years....but the bad models outweigh the good ones.

and it was after 1972 into 1973 that cars went downhill....i mean look at what the 440ci Mopar engine put out after 1973...180hp? two years before it made well over 400+hp
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
there have been models that are good over the years....but the bad models outweigh the good ones.

and it was after 1972 into 1973 that cars went downhill....i mean look at what the 440ci Mopar engine put out after 1973...180hp? two years before it made well over 400+hp
I miss my 1970 'Cudo :(

My first car was a 1972 Pontiac Grand Prix that pushed 390bhp out of a build 400. Went like a train: Fast as hell, took 4 city blocks to stop and couldn't turn.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
I miss my 1970 'Cudo :(

My first car was a 1972 Pontiac Grand Prix that pushed 390bhp out of a build 400. Went like a train: Fast as hell, took 4 city blocks to stop and couldn't turn.
who needs to stop or turn?? going fast in a straight line is good clean american fun


what did ya have in the cuda? 340? 383?
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
42,966
15,044
Portland, OR
340 with pistol grip shifter. Panther Pink original color, but the PO painted it Gun Metal Gray. It was my welcome home present o myself after Desert Storm.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,589
3,118
The bunker at parliament
you should be buying the Holden's down there in Kiwi land...do they really import American cars down there??
Holdens have been big sellers in NZ since the late 50's.
They restarted importing chryslers about 4 years ago, not many around though as NZ roads need cars designed with narrow rough twisty roads in mind.

Almost all the ford range here is the Japanese and euro sourced ones except for the Falcon whith is another Aussie effort like the Holden.
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
14
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
The problem isn't a lack of cars, it will be the job fallout that results from them failing.
They created the problems, not the rest of America. If someone lucked into living in a region that would afford them $40 per hour jobs for mindless manufacturing, they should expect it would one day run out. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

I hate to see them fail, but the local economies allowed them to get so big, not the rest of the nation.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,589
3,118
The bunker at parliament
It's not so much the big three going down that annoys me, it's the smaller parts supply companies etc etc that would go down with them.
I'd be betting that there would be more than a few small towns around the place that would rely on those companies selling stuff to the big players. And they would get slammed badly. :(
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
14
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
It's not so much the big three going down that annoys me, it's the smaller parts supply companies etc etc that would go down with them.
I'd be betting that there would be more than a few small towns around the place that would rely on those companies selling stuff to the big players. And they would get slammed badly. :(
Somehow I will bet that many of those small suppliers aren't union based work shops.