Is Islam a religion of peace?
- Thread starter $tinkle
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I agree, I am a member of a certian denomination, but I don't characterize myself by that, I am a Christian, not a Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.
It's funny but when you study the early church no where do they identify themselves by the things they believe. They were known as "the Way" because of the way they lived. I think thats where ALOT (most) Christians get off track, Christianity is not about a head full of facts and verses, it's about living in harmony with God (the God of the Bible that is). It was only until about 500 AD that Christians began adding all these "beliefs" to what it meant to be a Christian.
Most Christians don't know this but the early "church" was a bunch of Jews that believed Jesus was the Messiah, they still practiced all the "Jewish stuff". This whole "modern Christianity" has kind of got me thinking that maybe my family needs to be Messianic Gentiles (ie practice and observe the "Jewish stuff" the early church did), not to be "more Holy" but just to get to the roots of our faith. FWIW
I agree, folks do it on here everyonce in a while regarding Christianity. Without the context of the WHOLE passage, it's hard to know what the writer was getting at.
Wacky? I don't think Paul wrote anything that "deviated" from Jesus' basic teaching on the Sermon on the Mount, but this thread is for Islam, not Chritianity.
No I don't believe it is. Thanks for simplifying it for me. I must not be very smart because I didn't get that from his original post....jdcambOriginally posted by LordOpie
I believe the root of $tinkie'squestion is...
Is Islam a religion of violence? Is violence advocated in the Koran?
I think the very basic question fair and interesting.
i buried my question in the thread title...j/k
one thing i have learned today (this means i can go home soon), is that it's safe to label christians as murderers, boy-rapists, polygamists, crusaders, etc. In other words, not peaceful people. This has been painted with broad strokes, leaving this reader to conclude that peace is the exception, rather than the norm for christianity.
i'm just curious why no one threw out ann coulter's most imfamous quote on this
Probably because Ann Coulter is a nutball and no one with an IQ over 70 takes her seriously.
I need to communicate more effectively.
Christians have screwed up and done really bad stuff.
Muslims have screwed up and done really bad stuff.
Jews have screwed up and done really bad stuff.
Buhdists have screwed up and done really bad stuff.
The screw ups are not the core of the religion.
I like you and Christians and Jews and Muslims and Buhdists. We all mess up, our faith has little to do with it.
I disagree. OK, the person screwing up likely just has a screw loose in the first place, but religion plays a major role in determining people's actions, including the screw-ups. Does it mean that all Christians or Jews or Muslims etc. are screw ups? No, but religion does have a lot to do with it.
No. Some of those people label THEMSELVES as Christians, and it's fine to point out that they did so. Just like many terrorists in our modern world label themselves as Muslims, and that is not a fact we should ignore.
However, it is entirely wrong to think that any of the above behavior results from the religion. Their behavior results from themselves, as does their own twisted interpretation of "religion."
Ah, they do indeed!Originally posted by Andyman_1970
Paradox?
No we're not, some of us actually ride mountian bikes and do cool stuff..................LOL
And that's great. It's the BornAgainIFoundIt preachy reformed type that I have a hard time abiding with.
But you're not like that.
I agree Ohio. Wow, this is like the 4th time we have agreed on something, what is this world coming to!!!
I do to, I won't say "problem" I'll say I don't agree with their methods, that their methods are not how Jesus taught.
OMG! 
You leave for just a little while to get some work done and come back to find this! Forget it. I'm leaving this scrap for the jackals.
You leave for just a little while to get some work done and come back to find this! Forget it. I'm leaving this scrap for the jackals.
Right that Hitler was an athiest but he didn't act alone. The Christian Churches in Germany were, at worst active participants, and at best turned a blind eye to what was going on. So, I'd say you were wrong on that.
I potentially disagree. I know nothing about Islam and will not pass judgement, but it is possibly that violence is preached in Islam... no one's actually shown Koran scripture to say otherwise.
yup, funny stuff and this is for a different thread, but I'll say it here... i don't believe CBS is at all upset by what happened for if they were, they wouldn't allow JJ&J to do the award show coming up.
I don't agree with that. Allow me to relate a personal anecdote here. (Then you can throw me to the lions...)
I grew up going to a fairly fundamentalist church. I was (there is no better term for it) indoctrinated from a very very young age by pretty much my entire family. I remember having an argument in a youth group thing (I was probably about 15 or 16) with a bunch of kids from my church who didn't see anything wrong with an abortion clinic being bombed or a doctor being shot. Most of these kids were in the same situation I was, indoctrinated from birth.
The situation has got to be exponentially worse in a place like Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, or Afghanistan, or Iran, or any other place where fundamentalists have power. Imagine not knowing how to read, but knowing the Koran by heart, with the emphasis places in the places where your teachers want it...the religion (with the message being manipulated by the leaders of the religion, it doesn't really matter if the manipulation of the message is sincere or cynical) becomes the medium to instill hate and blame and mistrust.
The difference between the kids who didn't see killing a doctor as wrong and the ones who don't see anything wrong with blowing themselves up in a disco? Sad to say, I think it's mainly a matter of living conditions and education and prosperity.
That is so messed up and so far from what true Chritianity is it's not even funny, I hate hearing stories like that. I hate to think how many people are lead astray because of unbiblical teachings like that, it really does break my heart.
Unfortunatly that is the case sometimes, again that's sad. In some cases Christianity has "become" something Jesus never intended it to.
I'll agree with that, but your parenthetical aside is telling... the religion is the medium and the teachers/leaders are the source. If it were a different religion, I have a feeling the message would still be the same.
So I guess my point is that it can be Islamists, but it's not Islam.
I'd agree with that. I don't think Islam is worse or better than Christianity or Buddism or Scientology. Religion is pretty much the ideal tool for indoctrination. I'm sure that if Islam was the predominant relgion of most western nations and Christianity was mostly centered around the middle east in fundamentalist totalitarian regimes, we'd be wondering why those Christians don't stop blowing stuff up.
what a rad thread. considering the potential for a war in here over this, i find most the posts to be fairly respectful and tuned in to previous comments. that is really really cool IMO.
curious if anyone has stats on violence committed by athiests or non-followers of any 'organized' religion?
curious if anyone has stats on violence committed by athiests or non-followers of any 'organized' religion?
Tribal members of the Tonga tribe in the deepest reaches of the Amazon have no concept of crime nor do the Bushmen as seen in "The Gods Must Be Crazy (I and II)....
Probably billions....but I can't recall any war fought in the name of atheism, there is usually another reason (power, ideology, nationalism, etc.)
It all comes down to human nature. For some odd reason one tibe of humans tends to try to kill off another tribe of humans. Been that way since the dawn of man.
Yeah it is one of our better discussions we have had lately (at least that I have been a part of). I enjoy, for some strage reason, going "round and round" with these folks esspecially on matters concerning faith.
I love that movie, I have not seen it in ages. My family and I first saw in when I was learning to drive (it took me a while
: ), and the running joke was I should drive in reverse like the little bushman.
Wow, I missed some stuff here.
Im agreeing with Opie more than anyone here, so far. Thus far, all anyone can do to try and prove that "Islam doesnt teach hate/violence" is to say that "Christians are even worse" or "Just as bad"......but that is not the question.
Ive seen a few posts thus far where it clearly showed the Koran preaching hate....but NONE preaching any peace or "Love thy neighbor even if he's banging your wife" stuff. Im not saying its not in there, but Ive yet too see any posts to prove it, let alone a Muslim homeless shelter or Soup Kitchen.
I dont want to hear about terror attacks, abortion bombings, holocausts or nuclear bombs...I need a proponent of Islam or even someone being comepletely objective to point out how its a religion of peace. Not appheasement or tolerance....but love.
Im agreeing with Opie more than anyone here, so far. Thus far, all anyone can do to try and prove that "Islam doesnt teach hate/violence" is to say that "Christians are even worse" or "Just as bad"......but that is not the question.
Ive seen a few posts thus far where it clearly showed the Koran preaching hate....but NONE preaching any peace or "Love thy neighbor even if he's banging your wife" stuff. Im not saying its not in there, but Ive yet too see any posts to prove it, let alone a Muslim homeless shelter or Soup Kitchen.
I dont want to hear about terror attacks, abortion bombings, holocausts or nuclear bombs...I need a proponent of Islam or even someone being comepletely objective to point out how its a religion of peace. Not appheasement or tolerance....but love.
I won't claim to know Islam very well, but I can point you to some folks that do:
Check out the "position papers" and essays at The Muslim Women's League
This guys essay on Islam and World Peace
I'm not finding a whole lot on love to be honest, but plenty on peace, passivity, and acceptance. And of course tolerance... not sure why that's not good enough for you. It shouldn't suprise you seeing as the whole "love" message came from CHRIST (not Abraham or Muhammed), duh. The old testament isn't exactly full of peace and love, and you don't see Jews declaring jihad.
edit: cleared up some ambiguous pronouns.
No thats not OK either. Only God can judge us. Most Christians I know are fine upstanding folks. Quite peaceful actually. So that is not the case actually. It is wrong to label anyone of any religion for any reason. I don't think your a murderer, boy-rapist, polygamist, or even a crusader. I ride with quite a few cool Christians actually
Maybe some day we can ride together ....jdcamb
We have them in most Cities in the Northeast. They are called Mosques. Anyone can walk in and get a meal, spend the night at a Brothers home, wash your clothes, talk to someone, get off drugs, find a place to live, whatever. Muslims even have the balls to operate a grocery stores in the worst crime ravaged nieghborhoods where nobody else will. Imagine living in a nieghborhood without a Grocery store, we have them here. Heck Muslims even Patrol the streets of some nieghborhoods in our city making them the safest in the inner city. They contribute bigtime to many innercity nieghborhoods on many levels in my city including mine....they keep the peace and only want to keep to themselves. I thank God for them actually.....jdcamb
Above all it seems to me that this thread illustrates our collective lack of understanding of Islamic culture, religious tenets, teachings and religious texts. I include myself in that as despite deciding to educate myself about Islam (following 9/11) and reading a few books about it I cannot explain or expand on any of the above issues.
I do know that there are many good things about Islam and that as a culture the poor were far better provided for than in the west (at least up to 100 years ago, now it may be different). I have also known a few Muslims and they were far from the hateful anti-western stereotype, but then as has been said, there are plenty of intolerant, war-mongering 'Christians' in the world.
Maybe we all need to go and find out one interesting fact about Islam and Christianity for the weekend....
(I'm off to re-read a book or two).
I do know that there are many good things about Islam and that as a culture the poor were far better provided for than in the west (at least up to 100 years ago, now it may be different). I have also known a few Muslims and they were far from the hateful anti-western stereotype, but then as has been said, there are plenty of intolerant, war-mongering 'Christians' in the world.
Maybe we all need to go and find out one interesting fact about Islam and Christianity for the weekend....
(I'm off to re-read a book or two).
I know I have jumped into this thread late, but here's my 2 cents worth.
It matters little whether Islam is a religion of peace or not. It matters little that the majority of Muslims are law abiding and peaceful. What matters is the fact that the existence of the fanatiical groups are tolerated by so many muslim clerics and muslim governments. This toleration of the fanatical is the problem. Until the flocks stand up and throw out the clerics and governments that tolerate these losers, their whole religion will be viewed with suspicion by others. And rightfully so. Because of this, I hold the whole religion responsible for the acts of the few.
It matters little whether Islam is a religion of peace or not. It matters little that the majority of Muslims are law abiding and peaceful. What matters is the fact that the existence of the fanatiical groups are tolerated by so many muslim clerics and muslim governments. This toleration of the fanatical is the problem. Until the flocks stand up and throw out the clerics and governments that tolerate these losers, their whole religion will be viewed with suspicion by others. And rightfully so. Because of this, I hold the whole religion responsible for the acts of the few.
Uhhhhhhhhh, there are plenty of examples of peace (either the Western understanding of "absence of conflict" and the Hebrew understanding living in harmony with God) and love in the OT.
To name a few: God could have killed Adam and Eve, but He didn't He had mercy on them (why because He loved them). The covenant He made with Abraham was done in such a way that fulfilling it became God's responsibility (why would He do that?). The 10 commandments every one love to laugh at start with grace, read the whole passage in chapter 20. The Levitical law says to take care of the "alien" that lives among you, to fogive debt, and to take care of those who are less fortunate. Nah theres no love in those passages.
Check out the books of Jonah and Hosea, both tell of God's love, grace and mercy. Oh and don't let me forget the Psalms "God is close to the brokenhearted".I love how every one thinks the OT is "bad" or "dark", I used to think that until I studied it.
How many Christians would be willing to do that? It's funny that the Scriptures command us to take care of people that way.
Oh I donno... In the Christian Myths, weren't Adam and Eve imortal at the beginning but then God cast them out of Eden and made them mortal which basically amounts to killing them...no?
I didn't saythere was NO love. I just said it wasn't ALL peace and love.
I think you'll find similar in the Koran... a relationship of SPECIFIC love with God and family. BurlySurly, I believe, was looking for a decidedly Christian message of love (not just compassion and tolerance) for all mankind. Whereas the Christian attitude towards evil is one of pity and love-despite-all, I don't think (but could be wrong) that is universal to Judaism and Islam.
reference genesis 3.Originally posted by N8
Oh I donno... In the Christian Myths, weren't Adam and Eve imortal at the beginning but then God cast them out of Eden and made them mortal which basically amounts to killing them...no?
eve made to endure immense birth pains as a reminder of original sin.
adam to scratch a living from the earth.
satan made to crawl on belly.
don't know about this "you were going to live forever, but you blew it" stuff. Sounds like someone's adding to the Word.
uhhhh....what's a "christian myth"? televangelism?
Ah.. so god only made them incur pain/sickness/etc then... what a loving guy!
IMO:
Christian Myths, Greek Myths, Chinese Myths, Islam Myths, Celtic Myths, Norse Myths, Native American Myths... etc... all the same. All have some basis in fact but tend to over give simple answers to complex questions. Great for educating and controling ignorant masses.
He could have struck them down, but He didn't, He made clothes for them instead.