[fluff]

Originally posted by $tinkle
why is it now you don't squawk about basic human rights violations, but gay marriage should be allowed because it's a basic human right?


in addition to misjudging me about the death penalty (i'm against it)

I was not 'squawking' about human rights, I was illustrating how invasion is viewed by the invaded. No culture has a monopoly on human rights or a god-given right to impose their values aon anyone else. And enforcing human rights at gunpoint is counterproductive, especially for the 'collateral damage'.

I did not misjudge about the death penalty, I was trying to stay away from the more emotive issues. Had I wanted to goad you I would have used partial-birth abortion.

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Westy
Agnostics rule, you never hear of anyone killing because of their uncertainty about god.

Yeah, that's because they are so frozen with indecision that they can't get out of the house until they're sure their outfits coordinate.

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Silver
If I shave, wear my glasses and have a nice button up shirt on, I breeze through. Not even a second look. If I wear my contacts, don't shave, and look a little bit like a skater or a surfer, I get pulled over for extra screening almost every time at LAX. Personally, I think they are looking for drugs...but I sure don't feel any safer.

Flying back out of Canada, interestingly enough, the security checks are much more random and intensive. And Vancouver in particular seemed very thorough.

No shi+! I have been subjected to everything short of a cavity search on my trips back from Frankfurt or Amsterdam into Dulles Int'l. I have been completely searched by the Politzi w/German Shepherds at roadblocks at 2:00am. And upon arriving in Vancouver, my check-in was delayed 4 hours while I went around and around with a Customs guy who had complete knowledge of a little run-in w/Johnny Law that had been expunged through Federal 3607 treatment years before. I still don't know how they found that out. I'm not gonna even go into the times I've been screwed with here in the States. It is a massive inconvenience, for sure, but better I get hassled than another Lockerbie or 911 occur.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by fluff
Did you get him? Would you endorse a UK invasion of Eire to get IRA terrorists?

most likely would, as i see it as just.

i thought they were "freedom fighters". That's what i keep reading in the beeb & reuters

Originally posted by fluff
You're missing the point completely which is that regardless of the justifications your government comes up with, the US is bullying the rest of the world. That's why the terrorists attack you, it's not envy or any of the other 'comforting' reasons you seem to think it is.

i'll say with all honesty we just don't share the same perspective, so it's a push.

Originally posted by fluff
As for the holocaust, that as relevant as the fate of the Native North Americans, the Incas and the aborgines of Tasmania, so stop obsfucating.

if islamofacists' charge is to convert (and it is), then i don't see the difference. They aren't asking for acceptance, but rather seeking global domination. I know that may read as a bit alarmist, but i've gotten to know just how seriously flawed their reasoning is, & how intolerant they are, so letting this run amok would logically conclude with it.

Originally posted by fluff
??? So more people must die for some macho bvllsh!t???

hardly.
if you know a way to get them to the negotiating table (recall they don't negotiate), i'm all ears.

Originally posted by fluff
So what's your solution, more killing? It doesn't seem to have improved since Isreal stopped negotiating does it? If the first deal doesn't work, keep trying. Do you know how long the current negotiations in Northern Ireland have been proceeding? Do you know how long the IRA ceasefire has held? Do you know how much better the situation is since the negotiations began? If the same methods were used there as this phony war on terrorism demands the killing would still be going on.

are you suggesting they try the UK/IRA model? These two sides aren't steeped in thousands of years in hostility, hatred & intolerance, as are the israelis/arabs. Maybe we need more Rachel Corries? Convince me that the PA doesn't want to see all jews exiled, if not killed.

Originally posted by fluff
Didn't Henry Kissinger win one of those once? Need I say more.

my point exactly


how can you post those bipolar links 2 posts later which seem (to me) to contradict the "good news" polls posted in another thread here, also from the beeb. maybe it's not you.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by fluff
See my Northern Ireland reply above....

Doesn't seem like escalating the killing works does it?

And if you have a problem with the word force, remember that there is more than one way to skin a rabbit; the US provides so much aid to Israel that they force them to negotiate without using any military action.

All I see out of that conflict is some local people teaching kids to play basketball because Lacrosse and Soccer don't mix as they are viewed as the other sides sports respectively. but it hasn't been all rose over there....even recently. If it is repressed any fighting I am all for it....but there has not been a solution or a fix.

We sanctioned Saddam...yet he didn't care. No bargaining until we where at his doorstep knocking.

Yes you did. That's exactly why. You didn't bomb them because they bombed you, you bombed them because they wouldn't turn over Bin Laden (if they could) and you thought that they should. Therefore you disagreed with them so you used military force to get your way. It really is that simple.

I am sorry and confused you have let yourself beleive that.....but I guess that fits in with your machismo bullshi!t you have mentioned time and time again in this thread. Seem like you have just as much machismo but a smaller vessel wich to deliver it by.

Sure he was a nasty piece of work, but don't pretend that the action was altruistic, that is simply not realistic.

Relistic or not. Your claims and other naysayers have not bared fruit.....we haven't horded the oil for ourselves. We are preparing to hand the country over.... Yet we didn't do it for those things....hmmmm

Your rebuttals? How could they be rebuttals when they were rebutting nothing? They were prejuduces. And close-minded is accurate if you are prejudging my answers. If you don't like it, tough but you put yourself in that corner.

I don't have to wait for a duck to open it's mouth to know it is going to "quack". I thought that was funny...come on.

You still haven't come to the table....so I say unless you pony up, pipe down until you can help. CLose minded isn't monopolozed on this side of this post my friend. OPen your eyes and assess yourself. You have nothing to offer than to say what the US did wasn't right and I ask you again. Bring us something that would work. Ireland's model didn't/won't work in the middle east. Especially not with Saddam and Bin Spanky.

I don't expect you to agree with me but you cannot challenge me to put forward my ideas and then say that I have not. Just because you don't agree with them does not change the fact they they exist.

What you don't realise is that I can see where miltary action can be valid, but it is not the be all and end all. The only way to gain a lasting peace anywhere in the world is to make peace, not by making war. However, politically war has many benefits. Have you read 1984?

I challenge any naysayer to prove there is a better way. One that has a snowballs chance in working. You hadn't presented a plan yet. So my challenging your lack of plan was appropriate. All other ideas hadn't and didn't work up until the point we acted. You still haven't put forth anything but meaningless talk and non action.....good plan. Your ideas exist, they just don't/haven't worked. Yet you still cling to them like they do.

There was no making peace with Saddam. Even you can admit that. Saddam was a man who undertood one way in life. He went out like he was destined to do.

It was appearant that love is not what Saddam wanted. He got what he wanted.