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Is Lance finally busted?

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OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,735
1,247
NORCAL is the hizzle
He would keep fighting if he was innocent. But Lance knows that lying in court is a bigger problem than the actual doping offenses. So, rather than risk perjury and related charges, he can just stop fighting, characterize it as a witch hunt, and let the public decide what matters. At the end of the day that's the real question anyway. His place in history will be determined by the public, not the record books. Unless you are incredibly naive, his wins already have asterisks - making it official doesn't really change much on that score.
 
sanjuro

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
bdamschen said:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20120825,0,2080853.column
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Before we go further, let's address the question most people think is the nub of the matter. Is Lance Armstrong a doper?

Here's the answer: I don't know. You don't know either. More to the point, Travis Tygart, head of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, doesn't know. That hasn't kept USADA from declaring Armstrong to be guilty of charges it has not proved in public, or to attempt to strip him of his seven Tour de France titles. (It's not yet clear that USADA has the latter authority.)
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Tygart doesn't know. Except for those 10 eyewitnesses, including Hincapie, willing to testify.
 
bdamschen

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,378
157
Spreckels, CA
sanjuro said:
Tygart doesn't know. Except for those 10 eyewitnesses, including Hincapie, willing to testify.
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Personally I don't a crap if Lance is a doper or not- roadie matters bore me. What I do think is BS is the way the USADA conducts themselves in these sort of inquiries.
 
jackalope

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,703
6,109
in a single wide, cooking meth...
IMO,when a *federal grand jury* dumps a file cabinet full of evidence in the lap of an anti-doping agency they really do have an obligaion to follow up in some way. People overlook that when they're asking why USADA went after Armstrong. That's not "corrupt" that's an obligation.
 
bdamschen

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,378
157
Spreckels, CA
jackalope said:
IMO,when a *federal grand jury* dumps a file cabinet full of evidence in the lap of an anti-doping agency they really do have an obligaion to follow up in some way. People overlook that when they're asking why USADA went after Armstrong. That's not "corrupt" that's an obligation.
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Have you read the article? This is the part that bothers me:
Federal Judge Sam Sparks of Austin, Texas, who was asked by Armstrong to block USADA's case against him, found lots not to like about the agency's pursuit of the cyclist. He called USADA's charging document, a letter that listed Armstrong's purported doping violations, "so vague and unhelpful it would not pass muster in any court in the United States." The deficiency, he said, "is of serious constitutional concern."
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The judge went on to rule against Lance stating that because he raced, he implicitly agreed to arbitration and wouldn't block the case, but at the same time had nothing but bad things to say about the way USADA handled their cases. Just doesn't seem like a fair fight to me.
 
jackalope

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,703
6,109
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Yes, I did read the article, in particular the part about "without merit." 12(b)(6) is never a "small win." Everything else is obiter dictum. I also felt the judge thought the USADA-WADA-UCI relationship was pretty convoluted, and unusual in that the UCI did not really agree with the USADA's chosen course of action. While it appears the USADA did not fully describe the nature/quality/quantity of their evidence in the charging document, I still believe they had an obligation to act based on what was provided to them.
 
Wumpus

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,161
153
Six Shooter Junction
UCI to introduce doping amnesty?

McQuaid to raise possibility at a meeting later this month

UCI President Pat McQuaid has raised the possibility of a doping amnesty in order to once and for all deal with a tarnished era.

The UCI will meet on the 19th and 20th of this month and in an interview with the Associated Press, McQuaid said he will propose the pardon.

"I think there's room for it and I think the UCI could do well to [introduce it]," McQuaid said. "It's a subject I will bring up myself at the management committee of the UCI and it's something which we would look into possibly doing."

The move comes in the wake of Lance Armstrong being stripped of his results dating back to August 1, 1998 by USADA and being hit with a lifetime ban which the UCI is yet to ratify. McQuaid has also said that he will be looking into statements made by Garmin-Sharp manager Jonathan Vaughters, who wrote in the Cyclingnews forums that several of his riders had doped in the past, including Tom Danielson, David Zabriskie and Christian Vande Velde.

McQuaid said that concrete plans for the parameters of the amnesty, how it would work and the potential outcomes all need to be considered.

"We have to work in the world anti-doing rules and sanctions," he concluded.
 
boogenman

boogenman

Turbo Monkey
Nov 3, 2004
4,398
1,086
BUFFALO
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2012/10/10/lance-armstrong-usada-reasoned-decision-teammates-doping/1624551/

I've been telling people for years that the USPS team along with many others pay millions of $$ to doctors, chemists and nerds to cover up thier doping.

in 2001 or 2002 I was hanging out with a photographer at the t. Snow nat finals who shot many of the Tours. He said the amount of doping and cover up that went on was disgusting, which is why he was doing mountain bike stuff.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,818
27,037
media blackout
Wumpus said:
UCI to introduce doping amnesty?

McQuaid to raise possibility at a meeting later this month

UCI President Pat McQuaid has raised the possibility of a doping amnesty in order to once and for all deal with a tarnished era.

The UCI will meet on the 19th and 20th of this month and in an interview with the Associated Press, McQuaid said he will propose the pardon.

"I think there's room for it and I think the UCI could do well to [introduce it]," McQuaid said. "It's a subject I will bring up myself at the management committee of the UCI and it's something which we would look into possibly doing."

The move comes in the wake of Lance Armstrong being stripped of his results dating back to August 1, 1998 by USADA and being hit with a lifetime ban which the UCI is yet to ratify. McQuaid has also said that he will be looking into statements made by Garmin-Sharp manager Jonathan Vaughters, who wrote in the Cyclingnews forums that several of his riders had doped in the past, including Tom Danielson, David Zabriskie and Christian Vande Velde.

McQuaid said that concrete plans for the parameters of the amnesty, how it would work and the potential outcomes all need to be considered.

"We have to work in the world anti-doing rules and sanctions," he concluded.
Click to expand...
That'll never happen. McQuaid isn't capable of doing something that smart.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,818
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oh today's the day, and what a field day it is:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/usada-outlines-armstrong-evidence-in-case-file_256450

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/reversing-earlier-denial-barry-admits-to-doping-at-u-s-postal_256610

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/usa-cycling-says-active-riders-from-usada-case-not-yet-suspended_256602

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/george-hincapie-admits-to-doping-giving-information-on-armstrong_256599

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/full-text-of-travis-tygarts-armstrong-case-file-statement_256594
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
I wonder if Lance is regretting chasing down George in that stage these days...

All of this could have been avoided by Lance making one phone call to Trek to get Landis set up there with a lifetime job doing nothing. Would have cost Trek 100k a year.

Hubris.
 
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worship_mud

worship_mud

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2006
1,464
2
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CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
13,165
5,031
Copenhagen, Denmark
I am really surprised Nike still plays along they are part of the problem too with their support of Lance over the years and Trek too they both need to be responsible and take a stand.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,818
27,037
media blackout
IH8Rice said:
wouldnt that be double jeopardy? or not because he was never officially charged with anything
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might depend on why the other case was closed. but i'm pretty sure that case wasn't about whether or not he doped, but if he was using federal money for it.

also, and more importantly, my understanding is that if he does admit to it, he would be guilty of perjury for saying, under oath, that he didn't dope
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Today I learned that Livestrong actually sent a lobbyist to Washington last year to inquire about USADA's funding.

Truly, groundbreakers in the fight against cancer, if you just redefine "cancer" as "anything that might hurt Lance's feelings".
 
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