[Jm_]

please explaing the appeal/benefits of cinch over bolt on? never seen a reason to do it. i dgaf about a few grams. and i seem to hear more compaints about creaking, etc.

Well, one reason is it makes it harder for them to change the fucking bolt standard every two years like Shimano had been doing. RF cinch is cinch. Sram cinch is still the same after Eagle. Yeah, I get it, having different cinching standards is shit-tay, but IMO that pales compared to the bolting standards, I mean seriously, they should just give you solid rings these days and you drill your own goddamn holes.

Once they started drilling the holes in un-equidistant locations, it was obvious were just screwing with us.

 

[Da Peach]

please explaing the appeal/benefits of cinch over bolt on? never seen a reason to do it. i dgaf about a few grams. and i seem to hear more compaints about creaking, etc.

Get a oneup switch and have both!

(I am embarrassed to say I have one...)

 

[Sandwich]

Conch is stupid .Back to bolts for me.

mmm thanks auto correct

I switched from RF cinch turbines to SLXs with absolute black/oneup rings respectively. Total weight on the two was within something like 20g if not less. the RF cranks were fantastically stiff but hard to get tight without creaking. The slxs never creaked. I understand that people want to save weight, but this just seems like an area that isn't well suited to maximum weight savings vis a vis carbon.

 

[canadmos]

please explaing the appeal/benefits of cinch over bolt on? never seen a reason to do it. i dgaf about a few grams. and i seem to hear more compaints about creaking, etc.

Conch is stupid .Back to bolts for me.

Agreeeeeeeeeeeeed.

Cinch works, but its a pain. Does it really save or improve anything?

For one, need a specific tool to tighten it. And its a bitch to get off if you don't have a clamp or big lever handy.

The cinch bolt on my first crankset kept loosening a bit, nothing major, but it'd creak. Tightening it means taking the crank off, which is dickered compared to Shimano cranks. Give me some bolts that can be tightened with any multi-tool.

 

[Sandwich]

yeah I struggle to understand what cinch achieves besides fleecing customers and an absolutely beautiful look. Now that we have pizza pie cassettes you don't need a 28t ring anymore, which it certainly solved. It reduces alignment adjustment, forces heavier rings (because stiffness) and forces you to remove your crankset to change your ring, if you need to.

 

[Bikael Molton]

My cinch doesn’t creak. I’d be fine with the sram spiderless set-up too. They both look cool.

I’m interested to see where Shimano goes with it, as dual chainrings are over and I foresee buying a Shimano crankset.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Anytime i've tried a non shimano crank system i'm always pissed i did. For some reason I always end up back on trusty XTR cranks...

 

[slimshady]

I have been on SRAM's cinch system (with BB30 cranks on a BSA frame) for almost six months now. Nothing fancy like crabon, just lower end S1200 cranks. I was a bit skeptical at the beginning, but my experimentation cravings dragged me into them. I have to say I love the added stiffness versus my previous Race Face 104BCD and Shimano SLX experiences, and the direct mount chainring feels stiffer and is also simpler to set up/maintain.

 

[ChrisRobin]

Overall I haven't had many issues with Shimano other than their weird Ice-tech stuff. Every type of pad I've tried with those damn ice-tech rotors cause all kinds of noise. I found the only combo that worked for me was metal pads on the base-level rotors. I have Saint brakes and Zee brakes on two bikes. Both have been reliable and bite points have been pretty good overall...except on the Saint rear brake, but that was only after I changed out brakes lines. So I'm convinced it's a bleeding issue.

The only issue I've had on my RF cinch cranksets is the Next SL bits on my trail bike like to loosen periodically for some reason...but it's not often.

 

[toodles]

I'm a Shimano crank fan through and through. Saints for DH, XTs for everything else (i'd love XTR but I flunked dental school). I fix a lot of my riding buddies' bikes and I swear I die a little bit inside when I see preload rings and stupid spacers and wave washers. Just last week my mate's RF spline stripped on a hard landing and he rode out the rest of the day with a crank flapping around. We grabbed a set of XTs that afternoon and installed them in about 30 minutes in the carpark to continue riding the next day.

I don't care much either way for the cinch systems - it would be nice if we had less standards to worry about when buying chainrings or getting spares but if Shimano ever went that way you can guarantee they'd do their own version and just add to the standards pile...

 

[Toshi]

My Cinch cranks creaked incessantly.

 

[StiHacka]

My cinch cranks are fine, I have two sets. No creaking, good size bearings on the BSA BB, the chainring tool is fairly standard (ISIS BB IIRC), good selection of lengths (mine are 165mm on FS, 170mm on HT), configurable spindle. The Shimano cranks are like their hubs - one trick ponies, which is OK if you don't mess with your bike often.

 

[Kurt_80]

mmm thanks auto correct

I switched from RF cinch turbines to SLXs with absolute black/oneup rings respectively. Total weight on the two was within something like 20g if not less. the RF cranks were fantastically stiff but hard to get tight without creaking. The slxs never creaked. I understand that people want to save weight, but this just seems like an area that isn't well suited to maximum weight savings vis a vis carbon.

You're right though. Conch is stupid.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

who's quote was it that we are the 4chan of mountain biking?

 

[jonKranked]

who's quote was it that we are the 4chan of mountain biking?

yo.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

just checking, this thread is making me realize i needed to send rep.

 

[jonKranked]

just checking, this thread is making me realize i needed to send rep.

you've been hanging out here a lot lately, things slow?

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

you've been hanging out here a lot lately, things slow?

it's probably the looming divorce, am i that obvious? but oh so much more riding time these days.

 

[toodles]

The Shimano cranks are like their hubs - one trick ponies, which is OK if you don't mess with your bike often.

I agree their hubs are shit, but I've been really impressed with the durability of the cranks. Simple, easy to set up and they run forever without any issues. They're actually not even that expensive. Its no wonder the lizard overlords want us on other junk.

 

[jonKranked]

it's probably the looming divorce, am i that obvious? but oh so much more riding time these days.

Ah shit that's a bummer man, no fun to deal with. Hope it's for the best though.

 

[jstuhlman]

if you don't mess with your bike often.

this is really my goal. set it and forget it. then abuse the shit out of it and see if it holds up.

 

[Bikael Molton]

I love shimano cranks, and would still be on them if my new bike didnt come with Turbines. Hollowtech II with 2 pinch bolts on nondrive side is clearly a superior design. Just like with Servowave, Shimano's IP means that other brands need to develop other, inferior designs, imo.

I like spiderless though, and it seems to be a no-brainer since multi-ring is dead. Just speculating on what could be next for Saint...

 

[zdubyadubya]

you guys do realize that Shimano went to a pre-load collar and a splined interface chainring for their new XTR right? Hollow-tech II and the two pinch bolts is gone. And you know that "improved technology" will eventually trickle down. I bought an extra set of 8020 cranks off ebay to future proof myself.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-shimanos-new-xtr-m9100-is-more-than-just-12-speed.html

Anytime i've tried a non shimano crank system i'm always pissed i did. For some reason I always end up back on trusty XTR cranks...

I'm a Shimano crank fan through and through. Saints for DH, XTs for everything else (i'd love XTR but I flunked dental school). I fix a lot of my riding buddies' bikes and I swear I die a little bit inside when I see preload rings and stupid spacers and wave washers. Just last week my mate's RF spline stripped on a hard landing and he rode out the rest of the day with a crank flapping around. We grabbed a set of XTs that afternoon and installed them in about 30 minutes in the carpark to continue riding the next day.

I don't care much either way for the cinch systems - it would be nice if we had less standards to worry about when buying chainrings or getting spares but if Shimano ever went that way you can guarantee they'd do their own version and just add to the standards pile...

I agree their hubs are shit, but I've been really impressed with the durability of the cranks. Simple, easy to set up and they run forever without any issues. They're actually not even that expensive. Its no wonder the lizard overlords want us on other junk.

I love shimano cranks, and would still be on them if my new bike didnt come with Turbines. Hollowtech II with 2 pinch bolts on nondrive side is clearly a superior design. Just like with Servowave, Shimano's IP means that other brands need to develop other, inferior designs, imo.

I like spiderless though, and it seems to be a no-brainer since multi-ring is dead. Just speculating on what could be next for Saint...

 

[toodles]

you guys do realize that Shimano went to a pre-load collar and a splined interface chainring for their new XTR right? Hollow-tech II and the two pinch bolts is gone. And you know that "improved technology" will eventually trickle down. I bought an extra set of 8020 cranks off ebay to future proof myself.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-shimanos-new-xtr-m9100-is-more-than-just-12-speed.html

I thought they'd dropped the new XTR crank before it even released? And that as a result the XTR group thats coming out now has the pinchbolt design.

 

[slimshady]

I thought they'd dropped the new XTR crank before it even released? And that as a result the XTR group thats coming out now has the pinchbolt design.

Nah, the fire in their Japan factory left them without the capacity of finishing the cranks in a certain way. That's why they went to an alternative crank model they could produce overseas.

On an optimistic note, maybe that pinch bolt design they launched this year was meant to be an off series model, or maybe it was supposed to be the first generation of the trickle down.

 

[HardtailHack]

Nah, the fire in their Japan factory left them without the capacity of finishing the cranks in a certain way. That's why they went to an alternative crank model they could produce overseas.

On an optimistic note, maybe that pinch bolt design they launched this year was meant to be an off series model, or maybe it was supposed to be the first generation of the trickle down.

They make cranks at Fukushima? Glow in the dark cranks would be sweet!

 

[jonKranked]

Nah, the fire in their Japan factory left them without the capacity of finishing the cranks in a certain way. That's why they went to an alternative crank model they could produce overseas.

On an optimistic note, maybe that pinch bolt design they launched this year was meant to be an off series model, or maybe it was supposed to be the first generation of the trickle down.

there was a fire in the factory? got a source on that? i'd read that they were having issues manufacturing them. which is technically correct, you can't manufacture it if the equipment is on fire i guess

from what i read the "new" xtr's aren't totally canned, just delayed. the model they have out now is just kind of a stop-gap solution to get the platform on market (and i took it to be a hybrid of the existing and "new" xtr, basically i think they retrofitted the spline drive interface onto the existing arms) and will eventually be releasing the "new" cranks.

 

[Gary]

there was a fire in the factory?

it's not new news.

 

[velocipedist]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.asahi.com/amp/articles/ASL3V5V69L3VPTIL01V.html

In Japanese, but has video and pictures.
It happened March 26th of last year.

there was a fire in the factory? got a source on that? i'd read that they were having issues manufacturing them. which is technically correct, you can't manufacture it if the equipment is on fire i guess

from what i read the "new" xtr's aren't totally canned, just delayed. the model they have out now is just kind of a stop-gap solution to get the platform on market (and i took it to be a hybrid of the existing and "new" xtr, basically i think they retrofitted the spline drive interface onto the existing arms) and will eventually be releasing the "new" cranks.[/QUOTE］

 

[slimshady]

got a source on that?

This was Shimano's official press release on the incident:

https://www.shimano.com/en/cms/news/japan/news_detail_327.html

There was a pinkbike piece on a factory tour after that, and they acknowledged the most affected part of the plant was that where the new XTR cranks were forged/fused together/finished/whatever.

 

[jonKranked]

it's not new news.

i must have fallen into a bog.

 

[jonKranked]

This was Shimano'' official press release on the incident:

https://www.shimano.com/en/cms/news/japan/news_detail_327.html

There was a pinkbike piece on a factory tour after that, and they acknowledged the most affected part of the factory was that where the new XTR cranks were forged/fused togwtoge/finished/whatever.

gotcha. i remember seeing that now but hadn't put 2 and 2 together. also, see my prior post in response to Gary.

 

[jstuhlman]

i must have been passed out on my couch.

ftfy

 

[Jm_]

And what the **** is up with the design of the shimano calipers that doesn't let you insert the bleed block without unbolting the damn thing because it can't insert from the "outside"? It doesn't go from the outside because of the stupid fins on the block, so you end up having to go from the inside, but that never works because the caliper adapter/mount is always in the way, so you always have to unbolt it, it's not tapered so it doesn't "push" the pistons apart, it's completely idiotic.

 

[Gary]

i must have fallen into a bog.

FYI
There are two meanings of the word "bog" in Scotland

 

[jezso]

This is an interesting topic! I use Saint shifter and rear derailleur and cant really see how it could be any better. And yeah no need for more speeds. Am using two alu e13 cranks, one is 4 bolt (1st gen DH crank) and the other one is with the single ring fixed a la cinch (trs+ or what). I have no creaking issues even though I live in a desert, so dust is quite frequent. For DH I still prefer the 4 hole pattern as full bash ring can be mounted which I think does a better job to protect the crank and the frame vs. the taco solution. If I'd be building a DH bike (which I wont anytime soon) would surely use the saint cranks because of the fool proof pinch bolt system, and the overall construction.
In case they position Saint into the DH segment I'd love to see a dedicated 7 speed cassette with 10 small sprocket, so the front sprocket can reduced further, allowing more ground clearance. Don't really see how the cranks could be better, maybe they can shave 20 more grams but who cares about that as long it is not carbon but nice forged aluminium.
Cannot really comment on the brakes as I'm on Gen 2 Avid Codes which I still love. For hubs I abandoned Shimano long time back. But to be frank, currant Saint looks still solid for its application.

 

[chris_f]

I'm with jezso on the gearing-side of this, at least. Running Saint. Derailleur has taken hits hard enough to bend the dropout on my V10 but the thing was still fine. The shifter has taken impacts hard enough to bend the paddles, but it still works fine. And it's a DH bike, so as long as it shifts predictably and smoothly then I'm going to run it until it actually breaks.

If they could just make some brakes that worked properly...

 

[ChrisRobin]

Shieeet... I'm still on my 9spd setup on my DH bike. I have to say the ergonomics of the Saint shifter is the best I've ever felt...much better than my 10spd XT shifter on the trail bike. I had Saint cranks before and they were only upgraded to a RF Sixc crankset because they were pretty beat up. I think I mentioned it before but I actually like center lock. In a time where standards for components are needlessly changing, you'd think they'd change the old 6-bolt rotor interface.

 

[Cerberus75]

And what the **** is up with the design of the shimano calipers that doesn't let you insert the bleed block without unbolting the damn thing because it can't insert from the "outside"? It doesn't go from the outside because of the stupid fins on the block, so you end up having to go from the inside, but that never works because the caliper adapter/mount is always in the way, so you always have to unbolt it, it's not tapered so it doesn't "push" the pistons apart, it's completely idiotic.

Shave off the little ridges and they drop in. The bolt will line block up properly.

 

[sethimus]

gravel was more important