Is something wrong here?

LordOpie · Sep 13, 2003

umm, seriously? This is your rant?

No one's gonna disagree with you that teachers deserve more money.

As for the BA + teaching certificate, that only makes sense... and is a seperate issue from compensation.

D_D · Sep 13, 2003

All I can say is wages are high over there.
In UK I used to get paid $8 an hour for skilled assembly work.

Just as an sort of indication of what that is actually worth average house price in my town is $333,342 and teachers starting wage is $28,654.

I would say they are underpaid in this country, are there actually any new teachers starting on such a low ammount.

Ridemonkey · Sep 13, 2003

My ex GF is a teacher in Oregon. This I know: a teacher with 2 years experience makes the same as an engineer out of college when the monthly salary for the 10 month contract is averaged over the year.

Summers off. Great benefits. Satisfying work. If thats not enough, then don't be a teacher.

I have a degree and I've had a range of different jobs with a range of salaries. Currently I make about what a teacher makes. If I decide thats not enough, I will take steps to change my situation.

A buddy of mine just got done with 2.5 months of nothing but riding and hanging out during his summer teaching break. No sympathy.

:monkey:

Serial Midget · Sep 13, 2003

Why? How much do you pay your baby sitter?

In my county the average teacher makes over $45,000.00 - obviously no one starts off that high. In their last years teachers can make as much as $70,000.00 in the State of Washington. Careful who you get your information from.

Silver · Sep 13, 2003

Actually fireman and cops do just fine in Southern California as well....you have to be careful though, because this is the kind of thing that varies wildly between cities and counties.

Serial Midget · Sep 13, 2003

First off these prevailing wage jobs are temporary and often only last a matter of weeks and are contract orientated. IE no retirement, no health benifits.

Second - how many carpenters do you know? They average 6 to 8 full time months in a good year...

THIRD - Building Service Employees

Originally posted by brock
In order to be a teacher in Washington State you must have a Bachelor's with certification. This takes about five years and who knows how much money in tuition.

When you graduate and get your teaching certificate, you can look forward to landing a job where you will start at whopping $28,300 a year. Killer deal huh?(facts gathered here)

Or you could just say "screw it" I'll drop out of high school and get a job in the trades. I'm going to use the absolute lowest possible position on the jobsite as an example here. Per the current King County prevailing wage (the wages that are required to be paid if you work on a school ironically) a clean up laborer described as "FINAL DETAIL CLEANUP (i.e., dusting, vacuuming, window cleaning; NOT construction debris cleanup)" makes $24.86 an hour. That's $51,708.80 a year!

A journeyman carpenter makes $37.90 an hour or $78,832.00 a year.

Prevailing wage data here

So tell me again what is wrong with our education system?

Could someone explain to me why the state makes contractors pay broom pushers more than they are willing to pay teachers?

I already know about unions, democrats, etc. so I don't really need to know how it has happened. I am just ranting.

Serial Midget · Sep 13, 2003

Teachers, moreover, enjoy longer vacations and work far fewer days per year than most professional workers. Consider data from the National Compensation Survey of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which computes hourly earnings per worker. The average hourly wage for all workers in the category professional specialty was $27.49 in 2000. Meanwhile, elementary-school teachers earned $28.79 per hour; secondary-school teachers earned $29.14 per hour; and special-education teachers earned $29.97 per hour. The average earnings for all three categories of teachers exceeded the average for all professional workers. Indeed, the average hourly wage for teachers even topped that of the highest-paid major category of workers, those whose jobs are described as executive, administrative, and managerial. Teachers earned more per hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, atmospheric and space scientists, registered nurses, physical therapists, university-level foreign-language teachers, librarians, technical writers, musicians, artists, and editors and reporters.

I didn't just make this up - Link

partsbara · Sep 13, 2003

i m with ya brock... the salary suck$ a$$... thats the main reason i gave up being a teacher... that and the fact that 95% of the staff are old cronies who have no idea about shiat... i (mostly) taught PE in high schools (ages 12 - 17) in australia... kids are great, but in general the job is underpaid... and as for holidays, who wants to be off when all the schools are out ?$#@ not me, the beaches were crowded and full of kids... crowded surf is just plain wrong

as for serial midge and his 'in my country, teachers make blah' rant... well midge, in your country kids also take guns to school... no amount of money would see me teaching in the USA

i must admit, sometimes the job was great... surfing beach breaks back home for PE, me on my 6'8" and 25 kids (mostly boys) bobbing around on lids (boogie boards)..... getting paid to catch waves and count heads.... can get pretty stressful at times, especially when the numbers don t add up and you think you are missing one

playing indoor cricket was also good... put the little smart a$$ up at the strikers end and bowl a few bouncers at them

... a little bouncing leather ball coming down at 60 -70 mph soon puts an a$$hat in place... hhahahahaa... EVIL TEACHER

given the chance again i d be a chippie anyday... work 6 - 8 months and take the rest off and do what ya want with some good coin in ya pocket

good luck

parts

ummbikes · Sep 13, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Why? How much do you pay your baby sitter?

In my county the average teacher makes over $45,000.00 - obviously no one starts off that high. In their last years teachers can make as much as $70,000.00 in the State of Washington. Careful who you get your information from.

You have absolutly no idea wtf you talking about and your data is so horribly flawed I am forced to burn a 'mig action figure from the TBBXC collection.

Seriously.

Teachers with a Ph.D in Washington State max out the pay scale at $56,588.

Washington State Teacher Pay Scale

The money argument is a fun one.

Originally posted by Ridemonkey I have a degree and I've had a range of different jobs with a range of salaries. Currently I make about what a teacher makes. If I decide thats not enough, I will take steps to change my situation.

So do you then agree that teachers have the right to seek more pay, to "change" their situation?

I happen to married to a 10 year veteran of the teaching profession. So I'm BIASED about this.

Kim, my beloved, makes a decent salary now. She has perservered, taken more classes on top of her M.A. degree and kept up to date on the plethora of new legislation and regulations that seem to come on an annual basis here in Washington.

She will over the next 10 years max out her pay. Which by our calculations will mean she will work an additional ten years with NO PAY RAISE! Nice.

I'll accept gladly what I'll make as a first year teacher but I'll work hard with the union to assure my pay is the absolute maximum it can be as time goes by.

The benefits of teaching are not about the time off, although, it is nice to have the break in December and March.

Summers are usually filled for quite a while taking more classes, you have six years at most schools in Washington State to finish your M.A. program once you start. A lot of people only take clases in the summer so the reward for your 183 days of leisure is cramming classes into your highly desirable summer break. The money you have saved all year for that hot vacation to Whistler gets sent to the University of Wherever to work on the classes that let you keep your job.

I'm a sucka, I love kids and I love learning so going into this profession will be great. I get a kick out this type of discussion and threatening to burn action figures of 'mig.

My Starbucks is gone, off to enjoy the day!
:cool:

Ridemonkey · Sep 13, 2003

Originally posted by ummbikes
You have absolutly no idea wtf you talking about and your data is so horribly flawed I am forced to burn a 'mig action figure from the TBBXC collection.

Seriously.

Teachers with a Ph.D in Washington State max out the pay scale at $56,588.

Washington State Teacher Pay Scale

The money argument is a fun one.

So do you then agree that teachers have the right to seek more pay, to "change" their situation?

I happen to married to a 10 year veteran of the teaching profession. So I'm BIASED about this.

Kim, my beloved, makes a decent salary now. She has perservered, taken more classes on top of her M.A. degree and kept up to date on the plethora of new legislation and regulations that seem to come on an annual basis here in Washington.

She will over the next 10 years max out her pay. Which by our calculations will mean she will work an additional ten years with NO PAY RAISE! Nice.

I'll accept gladly what I'll make as a first year teacher but I'll work hard with the union to assure my pay is the absolute maximum it can be as time goes by.

The benefits of teaching are not about the time off, although, it is nice to have the break in December and March.

Summers are usually filled for quite a while taking more classes, you have six years at most schools in Washington State to finish your M.A. program once you start. A lot of people only take clases in the summer so the reward for your 183 days of leisure is cramming classes into your highly desirable summer break. The money you have saved all year for that hot vacation to Whistler gets sent to the University of Wherever to work on the classes that let you keep your job.

I'm a sucka, I love kids and I love learning so going into this profession will be great. I get a kick out this type of discussion and threatening to burn action figures of 'mig.

My Starbucks is gone, off to enjoy the day!

I know several teachers. I know this:

1. They make as much money as I do, and most of my friends do as well.
2. They have good benefits and great job security (something none of my crew has, half of which was laid off over the last 2 years).
3. They have SUMMERS OFF. This is a dream for most people. Spending time in the summer taking classes? Thats their choice, and its an opportunity most of us can only dream of.

I hear teachers complaining all the time. I'm sure their jobs aren't perfect and that a little mo money would be nice, but the fact is they have it better off than a lot of us. MUCH BETTER.

Heres a conversation me and my teacher friend had on a ride (dramatized a bit).

Me: man you're such a dog for havin the whole summer off

Whiney teacher: Yeah well I work up to 14 hour days all year so I have it coming.

Me: Join the club bro. Only difference is most of us are puttin in long hours and only get 2 weeks of vacation every year.

Whiney teacher: Well how would you like a deduction of pay - I don'tmake ****!

Me: Actually I know how much you make and its more than me.

Whiney teacher: well well well well

Don't get me wrong, I havenothing against teachers. I just think they need a reality check. No, their jobs aren't perfect, but they are a lot better than the asshat jobs most of us have.

ummbikes · Sep 13, 2003

Originally posted by Ridemonkey

Don't get me wrong, I havenothing against teachers. I just think they need a reality check. No, their jobs aren't perfect, but they are a lot better than the asshat jobs most of us have.

I hope you are right, I have already done all the asshat jobs.

Serial Midget · Sep 13, 2003

Originally posted by ummbikes
Blah blah blah

My Starbucks is gone, off to enjoy the day!

You klnow I weas referring to administative positions and I personally know Rand Iverson who was the administator for the freaking Matlock school district whomade in excess of $70.000.00 in his last five years of employment. He is 56 and SET for life.

Anyhow, you underinformed, over-educated, past your prime porm star... want to hit the Capital Forest later this afterenoon? 4:30 - 5ish?

ummbikes · Sep 13, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
You klnow I weas referring to administative positions and I personally know Rand Iverson who was the administator for the freaking Matlock school district whomade in excess of $70.000.00 in his last five years of employment. He is 56 and SET for life.

Anyhow, you underinformed, over-educated, past your prime porm star... want to hit the Capital Forest later this afterenoon? 4:30 - 5ish?

An admin. is not usually a teacher, although in Matlock who knows.

goosemagoo · Sep 14, 2003

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Teachers, moreover, enjoy longer vacations and work far fewer days per year than most professional workers. Consider data from the National Compensation Survey of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which computes hourly earnings per worker. The average hourly wage for all workers in the category professional specialty was $27.49 in 2000. Meanwhile, elementary-school teachers earned $28.79 per hour; secondary-school teachers earned $29.14 per hour; and special-education teachers earned $29.97 per hour. The average earnings for all three categories of teachers exceeded the average for all professional workers. Indeed, the average hourly wage for teachers even topped that of the highest-paid major category of workers, those whose jobs are described as executive, administrative, and managerial. Teachers earned more per hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, atmospheric and space scientists, registered nurses, physical therapists, university-level foreign-language teachers, librarians, technical writers, musicians, artists, and editors and reporters.

I didn't just make this up - Link

I know at least a half dozen teachers and they put in almost as many "off the clock" hours as on the clock.

They just seem a little underpaid for what they do. Considering the state of the educatioln system in the US, we could use a few more intelligent people in the job pool. Even if it is just because the salary is comparable to other options they have.

D_D · Sep 14, 2003

The only reason I think they should be paid more is because it would atract more people and once you have more teachers than you need you can sack the useless ones and there are a lot of useless teachers in my experiance.

I am allways a bit dubious of teachers claims to out of hours work just because when you ask them what the spend it doing they almost allways fob you off.

There are a lot of people working 12+ hours a day for less money than teachers.

Good teachers can make a difference and I think it is worth paying a bit more for.

MMike · Sep 15, 2003

My mom is a teacher with a Master's in education....the money stinks...

And yet someone who throws, or catches or kicks a ball for a living will make millions. Our priorities are messed up.

Ridemonkey · Sep 15, 2003

Originally posted by goosemagoo
I know at least a half dozen teachers and they put in almost as many "off the clock" hours as on the clock.

Right. This is called "salaried position". Again I say "join the club"

Ridemonkey · Sep 15, 2003

Originally posted by D_D
The only reason I think they should be paid more is because it would atract more people and once you have more teachers than you need you can sack the useless ones and there are a lot of useless teachers in my experiance.

I agree. More money - yes. Tenure - NO! I want to see asshat teachers out of work.

MMike · Sep 16, 2003

Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Right. This is called "salaried position". Again I say "join the club"

Oh Jesus...not even.

As a salaried person, do you spend your own money on supplies for other people? Or bring in your own computer from to do work?

Teachers are supposed to be educating our kids. And society doesn't seem to place a whole lot of importance on this.

But yes. Tenure is BS.

ohio · Sep 16, 2003

Originally posted by MMike

But yes. Tenure is BS.

Tenure is important in colleges/universities. Professors that are doing research should have the opportunity to earn tenure.

Teachers in K-12 should not. But where I come from they don't. Is this not the case everywhere?

MMike · Sep 16, 2003

Originally posted by ohio
Tenure is important in colleges/universities. Professors that are doing research should have the opportunity to earn tenure.

Teachers in K-12 should not. But where I come from they don't. Is this not the case everywhere?

Oh...yeah...I wasn't referring to "higher" learning...Universities are largely....well...quasi-private and not solely dependant on tax money.

Silver · Sep 17, 2003

Originally posted by MMike
Oh Jesus...not even.

As a salaried person, do you spend your own money on supplies for other people? Or bring in your own computer from to do work?

Teachers are supposed to be educating our kids. And society doesn't seem to place a whole lot of importance on this.

But yes. Tenure is BS.

Aren't you the one who said you'd line your pockets until it was time to raise your kid, and then you'll head back to Canada?

Society (in the US at least) seems to place about as much importance on education as you do yourself.

Is something wrong here?

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