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Is the US on the verge of collapse?

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
I thought this was a very interesting article. I'm not a great fan of Bush, but these statistics seem to have some power.



About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.

From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:
1. From bondage to spiritual faith
2. From spiritual faith to great courage
3. From courage to liberty
4. From liberty to abundance
5. From abundance to complacency
6. From complacency to apathy
7. From apathy to dependence
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,
Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the 2000 Presidential election:

Number of States won by:
Gore: 19 Bush: 29
Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000 Bush: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by:
Gore: 27 million Bush: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2 Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency
and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some
forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we may say good-bye to the USA in fewer than five years.

Know that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
So we're not on the verge of collapse, were on the verge of being on the verge of collapse.

I would point out that everything human beings do is "temporary," but our system of government will probably outlast us.

However, the "illegal invader" problem is one I have been wrestling with. The immigrants I know, both legal and illegal, are unusually hardworking people, and our country benefits from their presence. I believe that a state, a government cannot "belong" to one group of people (white protestants or whoever), it is just the forum in which different people with competing interests negotiate. If we are afraid of the sorts of demands they will place on us when they get a seat at the table, that only shows what a sham our political system has become. The very idea of a liberal democracy is that we are open to new influences and new coalitions so long as they respect certain self-evident truths about human society (people have rights, government is a necessary evil etc). The fact that 20 million newly minted Americans would overburden our public services is not a testament to their greediness but to the stupidity of our entitlement system.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Read the article a few weeks ago, thought it was somewhat insightful, but made broad use of the "jump to conclusions" mat, and thus earned a blue rating of "irrationally stupid".

The US isn't on the verge of collapse, but it has been slowly sliding that way since the erection of the Iron Curtain.
 

skinny mike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2005
6,415
0
If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we may say good-bye to the USA in fewer than five years.
oh please, the country would be way more ****ed if only rich, white people could vote. i highly doubt that immigrants are going to bring upon the end of our "civilization."
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
oh please, the country would be way more ****ed if only rich, white people could vote. i highly doubt that immigrants are going to bring upon the end of our "civilization."
They come here for a life of freedom, a chance at a decent job and a new start. They are likely to be what SAVES the country, not what destroys it.
 

W4S

Turbo Monkey
Mar 2, 2004
1,282
23
Back in Hell A, b1thces
oh please, the country would be way more ****ed if only rich, white people could vote. i highly doubt that immigrants are going to bring upon the end of our "civilization."

I agree. I took the article to mean that as we get more and more comfortable with our abundant lifestyle, we get more and more apathetic about losing our freedoms. I don't think the illegal immigration is our main problem, bipartisan infighting is.

However, I did find the voting trend interesting and would like to know more about how they extrapolated that info.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency
and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some
forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
I agree with that. The complacency is there all to much still, we see it in those who rule the country. The apathy I recognize mainly in those born in the 70's and later, we don't want to "grow up", we don't want to work, all we want to do is play around as profesional bikers and get high.. ;)
The dependency phase I know less about but if he says so...

Everything that Prof. Tyler brought up are internal factors of the empire. There are also external factors to ad to them.
I'll name those I can think of right now:
* The fossile fuel is comming to an end in predictably 30-50years.
* Countries have started to oppose the influence of the Empire, and they will get more with every year.
* People are in general waking up as more learn to read and as they get more information on this subject. Internet is playing a major roll in this.
* Other empires are forming, the EU, China, and maybe India too.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
:shocked:
Visit Arizona, Texas or Southern California and see how many "new lives" are started by moving drugs and stealing cars.

You guys crack me up.
Well ****, the people we call illegal invaders and treat as second class humans don't buy houses in the suburbs and open antique shops? :shocked: I'm really surprised that they don't have any respect for our legal system seeing as it is so inclusive and fair.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Ohh ****, that thing was bogus..? I thought it was pretty good except for the dependence part... It was too elitist. Loved the titel though. :D