[N8 v2.0]

The problem with these pic's being released to the media is the Michael Moore's of the world can/will use them to make a political statement against the very cause that the dead men and women in the coffins died for.

There is no one in the US military against their will. No one was drafted. No one was conscripted.

Believe it or not, the men and women in the US military are there because the want to be there. Every one of them is a "Pat Tillman".... someone who gave up civilian life and freedoms associated with it to be a soldier, sailor, marine or airman.

These men and women are fighting for a cause. A cause that they think is important enough to die for. A cause that is attempting to prevent another twin tower attack on our nation's soil.

Don't disrespect the dead or their families.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LordOpie
was that the guy who was gonna graffiti his town when Bush came to visit?

yep, that's the feller.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by N8
The problem with these pic's being released to the media is the Michael Moore's of the world can/will use them to make a political statement against the very cause that the dead men and women in the coffins died for.

That's sorta the point of having a free press, y'know.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Originally posted by Silver
That's sorta the point of having a free press, y'know.

It's like you getting killed at an anti-Bush rally in San Fran and the media showing your coffin as that of someone who died supporting the War in Iraq to rally support for the cause.

 

[$tinkle]

anyone ever check out portland's indymedia?

the link just got slashdotted & will probably be taken down, but here're some selected reader comments under the headline "Dumb Jock Killed in Afghanistan." :

• "Tillman chose to go to Afghanistan. He's partially reponsible for the deaths of hundreds, maybe thousands of Afghan civilians. No need to feel sorry for him, other than feeling bad that he was brainwashed into serving as a grunt."
• "it's amazing the kind of attention this insignificant incident is going to cause. well, he was rich, white, and an american. 10,000 (brown) iraqis get killed, and it barely merits a mention in the american news. how utterly f---ing sad."
• "To be honest I wish I could feel sorry for the guy, but the truth is I really feel nothing at all. To many have died and too much money has flowed into the pockets of Dick Cheney to even worry about it."
• "if he 'sacrificed' anything it was his common sense. He had a good American thing going and blew it."

 

[biggins]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Biggins,

...how come you never debate, you just say stuff like this all the time? Seriously, its like that commercial where the cardboard stockbroker slides under that dudes office door and he's like "500 shares....GREAT!"
You know what Im talking about? ...and I dont just mean this thread dude. C'mon. Lets make cases here instead of just spraying jargon all over the place. You're gunna be viewed like 'sideways' in here if you dont first get some foundation for this stuff.

first off i really do enjoy having debates with you. i also respect what you have to say and you know when called out i usually produce some type of supporting comment. its just today i do not have the enrgy to cite resources on which my opinion is based thats all. also i could go on and on about why i think what i think but it will in turn get shot down. quite frankly i am just tired of bush, the war on iraq and the problems that are stemming from the whole situation.i also do not feel thati have to provide some kind of support for opinions. if i were stating a claimed fact, well yeah i would find some supporting evidence but im not, it was only opinon. however i am no sideways. marshall and i think and react very differently. not to put him down but we are two very different people thats all.

 

[brenth]

Originally posted by N8
It's like you getting killed at an anti-Bush rally in San Fran and the media showing your coffin as that of someone who died supporting the War in Iraq to rally support for the cause.

and then the free press would kick in and tell the real story and everyone know that wasn't the case.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by $tinkle
anyone ever check out portland's indymedia?

the link just got slashdotted & will probably be taken down, but here're some selected reader comments under the headline "Dumb Jock Killed in Afghanistan." :

• "Tillman chose to go to Afghanistan. He's partially reponsible for the deaths of hundreds, maybe thousands of Afghan civilians. No need to feel sorry for him, other than feeling bad that he was brainwashed into serving as a grunt."
• "it's amazing the kind of attention this insignificant incident is going to cause. well, he was rich, white, and an american. 10,000 (brown) iraqis get killed, and it barely merits a mention in the american news. how utterly f---ing sad."
• "To be honest I wish I could feel sorry for the guy, but the truth is I really feel nothing at all. To many have died and too much money has flowed into the pockets of Dick Cheney to even worry about it."
• "if he 'sacrificed' anything it was his common sense. He had a good American thing going and blew it."

C'mon, that's a cheapshot. I don't link to the Free Republic to point out how stupid conservatives are...

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by N8
It's like you getting killed at an anti-Bush rally in San Fran and the media showing your coffin as that of someone who died supporting the War in Iraq to rally support for the cause.

And that would be their right. I don't get to take it away because I disagree with it.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Silver
C'mon, that's a cheapshot. I don't link to the Free Republic to point out how stupid conservatives are...

no, you choose wnd.com
and what do my bookmarks have to do with this?

 

[MMike]

Good grief! I'll bet you'll circle the block when you're driving just so you don't have to turn left.............

Originally posted by N8
The problem with these pic's being released to the media is the Michael Moore's of the world can/will use them to make a political statement against the very cause that the dead men and women in the coffins died for.

There is no one in the US military against their will. No one was drafted. No one was conscripted.

Believe it or not, the men and women in the US military are there because the want to be there. Every one of them is a "Pat Tillman".... someone who gave up civilian life and freedoms associated with it to be a soldier, sailor, marine or airman.

These men and women are fighting for a cause. A cause that they think is important enough to die for. A cause that is attempting to prevent another twin tower attack on our nation's soil.

Don't disrespect the dead or their families.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by biggins
however i am no sideways. marshall and i think and react very differently. not to put him down but we are two very different people thats all.

hahahah!

Its all good man. Its just your post reminded me of this time i was trying to talk to these protestor here in Honolulu. They were chanting all the anti-bush stuff and i seriously tried talking to them about the issues and they'd just say stuff like "stop the mindf***" or "Bush is satan" or all these other oneliners that never really get anyone anywhere. Its not debate, you know? I mean, I, for one do like a bit of name calling and a little insult here and there when i debate, but when you say stuff like "bush is a f***ing idiot, i mean, there are people here who strongly support the guy, and while you disagree (which is fine) that's really insulting people's intelligence alot.
I once got in a debate with some PETA guys and i gave them all these points and they would just say "youre brainwashed by the man" or "you need open your mind" and Im like "dude, open yours for a second" So really, they did nothing to change my views on the whole thing. I think that straight up insults like that to peoples causes dont make them want to see your views, it just pisses them off. Thats what sideways does, he just tries to spit rhetoric so people get pissed. Anyway, Im a hypocrit too, but whatever. Anyway, its still all good. We're gunna ride this summer whether you hate me or not.

 

[Silver]

Originally posted by $tinkle
no, you choose wnd.com
and what do my bookmarks have to do with this?

That was straight from the horses mouth, and was a major character in the story. There was no ill intent that time...

Don't make me read that site more than superfically, or you won't like the results

 

[N8 v2.0]

 

[MMike]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001914957_webfatherletter28.html

More on this....

 

[$tinkle]

reckon this will also cause some flap, but moreso on the arab street:

source

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Biggins,

...how come you never debate, you just say stuff like this all the time?... spraying jargon all over the place.

I think I can clarify biggins statement with a little rearrangement:

"George Bush is pathetic for banning this kind of photo... dead soldiers are the cost of being involved in this absurd war."

 

[biggins]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
I think I can clarify biggins statement with a little rearrangement:

"George Bush is pathetic for banning this kind of photo... dead soldiers are the cost of being involved in this absurd war."

lol. yeah that will work too.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
I think I can clarify biggins statement with a little rearrangement:

"George Bush is pathetic for banning this kind of photo... dead soldiers are the cost of being involved in this absurd war."

I think youre the one who needs clarification:


GEORGE BUSH DID NOT BAN THE PHOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

This rule has been in place since before the first Gulf War. Hello?

What is it with you guys

 

[biggins]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I think youre the one who needs clarification:


GEORGE BUSH DID NOT BAN THE PHOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

This rule has been in place since before the first Gulf War. Hello?

What is it with you guys

no george w. bush did not. his dad was the one that institated this policy. however george bush did make sure that the photographers lost their jobs. a bush by any other name is still a bush. we have george sr. to blame for the censorship/propaganda act.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by biggins
no george w. bush did not. his dad was the one that institated this policy. however george bush did make sure that the photographers lost their jobs. a bush by any other name is still a bush. we have george sr. to blame for the censorship/propaganda act.

so, maytag fired Tami Silicio at the bidding of W? I believe they were doing what's required of them, as a policy adopted in 1991, which states that the Pentagon bars news organizations from photographing caskets being returned to the United States, saying publication of such photos would be insensitive to bereaved families.

she signed on most probably with some CYA doc on record that if she did this, she could get canned. I don't see any propoganda at all. It's simply a part of the contract that maytag had w/ the pentavarit - errr - pentagon

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by biggins
we have george sr. to blame for the censorship/propaganda act.

No, you have renegade media types who're out looking for the death shots to plaster on the front of CNN.com in real time to blame.
Clinton used these same guidelines.

 

[Spud]

Jonathan Alter had a good commentary on this.

Link

It's not about protecting the families. It is about protecting the Administration.

It's true that many (though hardly all) families of the dead—being on the military side of the great military/media cultural divide—support the policy. But this would carry more weight if accommodating families were truly the Pentagon's aim. It isn't. For a year now, according to the Army Times, the military has put every obstacle possible in the way of family members who want to go to Dover to receive their loved ones. One family specifically asked for media coverage of a burial at Arlington. Request denied.

and

Body counts, especially when displayed so powerfully, are seen as a more potent threat than any militia in Fallujah. "The military is so concerned they will have to fight without the support of the American people that they will do anything they can to limit the release of information or images they fear would erode that support," says Robert Hodierne, senior managing editor of Army Times Publishing.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I think youre the one who needs clarification:


GEORGE BUSH DID NOT BAN THE PHOTO!!!!!!!!!!!!

This rule has been in place since before the first Gulf War. Hello?

What is it with you guys

Just trying to clarify Allow me to clarify your post as well

"Hello? What is it with you guys. GEORGE BUSH rules... the Gulf needs war."

 

[biggins]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
No, you have renegade media types who're out looking for the death shots to plaster on the front of CNN.com in real time to blame.
Clinton used these same guidelines.

clinton definatley did use i will not disagree bubt this policy was started with bush sr. and might i add that i am neither republican nor democrat; liberal or conservative. i just look for the best candidate that has the interest of the country and the people. i find it very discouraging because non of them have the best interest of anyone other than their business buddies in their adgenda

anyways who cares which person or media company decides to post pictures of dead soldiers. it needs to be shown. detachment harms everyone. show the picture after clearance of the family. the problem is is that they still are not even allowed to show pictures of american soldiers that died at the start of the war.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
No, you have renegade media types who're out looking for the death shots to plaster on the front of CNN.com in real time to blame.
Clinton used these same guidelines.

In all seriousness... I dont think pictures of coffins with flags over them is inappropriate... it's reality that people are going over there and coming back in a box.

Plastering photos of dead soldier's bodies is different, I think that is extremely innapropriate.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
In all seriousness... I dont think pictures of coffins with flags over them is inappropriate... it's reality that people are going over there and coming back in a box.

Plastering photos of dead soldier's bodies is different, I think that is extremely innapropriate.

i agree, but see the post I made about how the media is always pushing limits you give them.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by biggins
it needs to be shown. detachment harms everyone. show the picture after clearance of the family. the problem is is that they still are not even allowed to show pictures of american soldiers that died at the start of the war.

should we do the same for say, abortions? Or drug addicts? Or show the effects of lack of education?

i say yes to the pictures of the caskets, & yes to showing a film of an abortion to all those who want to see (soldiers in) caskets. I don't know what the line of gratuitous would be, but that's another debate.

 

[CreeP]

Originally posted by MMike
(We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked.) [/B]

or something; makes as much sense anyway. The only thing that could possibly make it controversial is whether or not the people who published the photo are being sensationalist or not. That would include you MMike

 

[$tinkle]

Media barred from ceremonies for 30 troops killed in Afghanistan

bush's precedent
bush's fault

 

[Pesqueeb]

Thank you for reminding us all why it was a good thing when N8 got banned.

 

[MMike]

More importantly....how did $tinkle remember this thread to necrobump it???

 

[$tinkle]

More importantly....how did $tinkle remember this thread to necrobump it???

any questions?

 

[MMike]

 

[$tinkle]

^^^ just *had* to inject canada into this, didn't you?

 

[Pesqueeb]

^^^ just *had* to inject canada into this, didn't you?

The elephant is French?

 

[$tinkle]

jim carrey

 

[Pesqueeb]

jim carrey

Jim Carrey is French?