Is this still the "Downhill" forum?
- Thread starter Udi
- Start date
Read norbar's recent thread "Downhill Tires in 2017".
FYI buckoW runs the exact same product I recommended, but chose not to back me up because he doesn't want to get involved with idiots. Shame, because it's something we agree has improved the DH riding experience for us, and just wanted to share - in a thread asking that exact question.
I did notice that.
There's obviously a community of general hilarity here, you're a part of it (and deserve some ribbing - WCH is kinda right), but I remember you posting a few serious questions and getting bombarded with absolutely ridiculous / incorrect responses, not just jokes. Not sure there's a solution, but maybe discussing it will help tone it down in future.
Oh I certainly am aware I'm part of the problem and have been working to tone it back. I agree with everything you've said on this subject. If it's bad enough that I'm saying we need to tone it back, it's definitely gotten bad.
I remember back when there was a decent number of industry folks who would contribute regularly. How many are left? 3? 2? I remember when threads about WC races would stretch 20 pages or more, of actual discussion no less. Now they rarely break 5.
Snark can be a double edged sword with forums.
Maybe it's the language barrier, maybe I'm too dumb to pick up the snark and sarcasm, but I honestly like the relaxed tone in the DH forum. I also value the input of most if not all the regular contributors, given you all guys ride harder than me -and I'm being dead honest here.
Industry insiders or not, the DH subforum is plagued with mechanically inclined users, with solid knowledge and avid to help. Not just the bong-shed-I-experiment-cuz-I-feel-bored user who lurks in emptybeer or the fashion whore spitting #stoked! all over PB. Good riders with an inclination for anything going down and not touched by IMBA. Maybe they had to put down the big bike, maybe they don't. They still enjoy bombing down a trail, and I respect that.
For the FSM's sake, are guys telling me you wanna exclude @mtg because GG doesn't have a DH frame in their lineup nowadays???
Industry insiders or not, the DH subforum is plagued with mechanically inclined users, with solid knowledge and avid to help. Not just the bong-shed-I-experiment-cuz-I-feel-bored user who lurks in emptybeer or the fashion whore spitting #stoked! all over PB. Good riders with an inclination for anything going down and not touched by IMBA. Maybe they had to put down the big bike, maybe they don't. They still enjoy bombing down a trail, and I respect that.
For the FSM's sake, are guys telling me you wanna exclude @mtg because GG doesn't have a DH frame in their lineup nowadays???
Last edited:
Definitely not, but if you thought that then you've misunderstood my post/s.
@mtg is easily on the list of people that make this place rad and useful.
My point is that if you don't live and breathe a topic (and ride that discipline to a solid extent), then don't go shutting down people (who actually do) when they post commentary.
It makes those people not want to post.
If the only people allowed to post were the ones who rode dh, it would be like 4 of us.
I don't see this place as soley some holy repertoire of information. I only listen to HAB anyway. And I only said that to increase his tolerance for me making fun of his zipcode-o-tron.
This place honestly kind of sucked when weagle went full marketeer and Fraser closed threads when Jeff steber claimed bikes that bottom out on the seat tube were wc racing specialty tools available to the customer... all because Fraser thought people blowing money on those bikes should quit being so mean to the industry man.
I'm with udi in that sense: forums as a place to escape marketing bs. It just comes with a different funnier kind of bs. Mostly HABs. He's such an asset.
I don't see this place as soley some holy repertoire of information. I only listen to HAB anyway. And I only said that to increase his tolerance for me making fun of his zipcode-o-tron.
This place honestly kind of sucked when weagle went full marketeer and Fraser closed threads when Jeff steber claimed bikes that bottom out on the seat tube were wc racing specialty tools available to the customer... all because Fraser thought people blowing money on those bikes should quit being so mean to the industry man.
I'm with udi in that sense: forums as a place to escape marketing bs. It just comes with a different funnier kind of bs. Mostly HABs. He's such an asset.
I agree completely. That's why I mostly ask around here rather than offering my opinion -which by the way makes me feel like I'm owing you guys a lot of beer in compensation.
I kinda like the idea of a meritocracy when it comes to interwebz forums, and out of a limited number of topics, I think I could only add a minute laugh to any discussion, or maybe a different look of an issue, from the other end of the world.
I'll tell you one thing you can add (not in lieu of beer). Is some pics of some of those damn awesome trails in the Andes!
There has always been a healthy mix of stupid shit and useful information going on in here and that's what makes it great. Now that there are less regulars and less topics, there may be an imbalance in favor of stupid shit at the present time. That's unfortunate...but on the other hand, it's difficult to keep a straight face and still pretend bike is Serious Business(TM) with all the standardz shitshow we've been fed by the bike industry in the past 5 years or so. Highly cynical content is unavoidable in these circumstances.
That being said, I guess this topic is helpful to reflect on the fact that the RM DH forum should probably increase it's geek content to remain relevant.
That being said, I guess this topic is helpful to reflect on the fact that the RM DH forum should probably increase it's geek content to remain relevant.
I was going to post about how I haven't added anything useful in years, but mostly I like RM because it's down to earth and there seems to be more cohesion than the wild stuff that shows up on MTBR, in terms of people just asking off the wall stupid stuff or making off the wall stupid posts. Most of those people simply don't want to help themselves and want someone else to do the work and research for them. Usually the people on RM are far more interested in bikes and riding and it cuts out a lot of the BS, some guy complaining he can't adjust his derailleur that adjusts exactly the same as derailleurs from 25 years ago.
Hi.
If the name of this forum was changed to "Downhill style" or something like that, it would be a correct representation of the discussion. A lot of riders aren't buying DH bikes anymore (hence we stopped making one), but those folks are still ripping down hills just as they always have been. It's just now mostly on bikes that can also be pedaled to the top efficiently. That's some actual progress in this nutty industry.
As far as RM itself, there is a higher average knowledge level here than elsewhere, combined with some epic snark. That's why I spend time here.
If the name of this forum was changed to "Downhill style" or something like that, it would be a correct representation of the discussion. A lot of riders aren't buying DH bikes anymore (hence we stopped making one), but those folks are still ripping down hills just as they always have been. It's just now mostly on bikes that can also be pedaled to the top efficiently. That's some actual progress in this nutty industry.
As far as RM itself, there is a higher average knowledge level here than elsewhere, combined with some epic snark. That's why I spend time here.
Just like Freeride, 29ers, Fatbikes and other dental pursuits, there was a DH bike bubble. It may have taken a little longer to burst, but the times I did have the full on DH bikes, it was hard to justify them. Like an idiot, I got out and pedaled them up hills, and then went down the hill slowly because generally those hills weren't anywhere near aggressive enough for a full on DH bike. There were some places I could use it fully, but I had to drive a ways to get there and % wise, it wasn't a huge part of my riding, yet I knew guys that were every-sunday at South Mountain, so there are definitely people that do it and there is definitely a market for it. I think a lot of us live for the downhills and that's our favorite part of riding, which is one reason we keep coming back and why we like all things-DH, but the true DH bikes? I don't know if I'll ever own one again. I may rent them from time to time to do a certain park, but the % of people in a position to ride DH regularly is pretty small. More people own a DH bike and try to split up their riding, but it's not that many more. Most of us realize we can ride 98% as fast downhill on the enduro ride in the nasty and faster when it's not. Similar to the freeride bubble, when we all thought 50lb Banshee Screams and Knolly V-tachs were going to be the ultimate ride. Well, no one was riding those anywhere near hard enough to justify pedaling all that weight uphill. Slowly, like freaking dragging the suspension and bike companies kicking and screaming, we are getting suspension that is good enough to close the gap even more. You'll always be able to go harder on a DH rig and it's the best way to enjoy when you got the terrain and elevation, but it was also a bubble and just because the bubble burst doesn't mean it's gone away. Many of these bikes have their niche now, they are just not the latest fad...like Ebikes.
I really honor that they come out here and discuss their product, but during those "glory days" of Ridemonkey it was also near impossible to criticize a bike that DW was involved in. It was in fact the DW fanboi forum here. Lately I think the tech discussions are less driven by people who try to impress the industry folks and therefore more helpful to me.
And Udi is right, at least regarding my experiences with DH bikes. I still ride them but am 559-4-life, so my info is basically technology from 2007.
And to keep with the stupid joke tradition:
Don't know what you are complaining about, it has gone downhill with this forum for years, so naming it downhill forum fits!
There was some shitty behavior back in the day as you say but those were the days where the forums were also full of quality content. You wanted people's opinion on gear, have a civilized discussion about servicing gear or modifying it you could only get it on RM. Remember the Sunday topics or when people discussed how to mod DHX Airs, 66 SL ATAs (Though that was MTBR to a bigger extent) and 2010 Boxxers? RM used to be a great source of information. I'd be sad to lose that, especially when my friends are cool but 90% of them know more about sharts than about gear.
Hi, I'm Electric_City! Here's my resume-
I started riding bikes in 1992. My DH addiction started in 2002. My first "DH" bike was an '01 Giant AC2 (aka F-pos, or Fucking piece of shit). I immediately sold it and bought an' 03 Iron Horse SGS Pro and put a Monster T on it. Next was an '07 Sunday Elite and in 2015 I purchased a Devinci Wilson 27.5. I still ride Creek every Sunday, but my heart is @Platty! Several trips were made to Whiteface, Snowshoe and Whistler. Another Whistler trip is being planned for this summer.
I love DH, and I suck at jumps (at Creek at least).
I hate 29'ers, people that ride 29'ers and fat bikes. I generally hate people.
I've built bike trails on property that's owned by a worldwide non-profit that has never allowed riding on their property before. I was recognized by the State for my efforts to get permission and to build a trail system used by riders and hikers.
I started riding bikes in 1992. My DH addiction started in 2002. My first "DH" bike was an '01 Giant AC2 (aka F-pos, or Fucking piece of shit). I immediately sold it and bought an' 03 Iron Horse SGS Pro and put a Monster T on it. Next was an '07 Sunday Elite and in 2015 I purchased a Devinci Wilson 27.5. I still ride Creek every Sunday, but my heart is @Platty! Several trips were made to Whiteface, Snowshoe and Whistler. Another Whistler trip is being planned for this summer.
I love DH, and I suck at jumps (at Creek at least).
I hate 29'ers, people that ride 29'ers and fat bikes. I generally hate people.
I've built bike trails on property that's owned by a worldwide non-profit that has never allowed riding on their property before. I was recognized by the State for my efforts to get permission and to build a trail system used by riders and hikers.
Ps. MTBR forums are a ghost town also.
@Udi,
do you have useful feedback for how I should moderate differently? I always tend to lean towards less moderation rather than more. Moderating a forum is literally a thankless job- people who have posted inappropriate content hate you for deleting their post, people who laugh about it hate you for deleting somebody else's post, and people who didn't really care still don't care whether or not it's there. The learning curve is steep and the only reward is hopefully a better community and more/better discussions. I am all for increasing the content on this forum, especially quality content, but that's difficult when DH as a sport is dying off compared to fat gravel monster cross e-bikes. I agree with you that some posters take the snark too far, but I'd rather have active participation with the OP having to filter out shitposts than me having to eliminate 50% of posts to keep things sterile.
Do any of the rest of you have comments to the above? I have no problem adding moderators; one of the reasons I don't actively moderate every thread is that I have a busy job, two kids, and a long commute. Time spent fucking around on forums is one of the few connections I have to my bikes, especially in the winter.
do you have useful feedback for how I should moderate differently? I always tend to lean towards less moderation rather than more. Moderating a forum is literally a thankless job- people who have posted inappropriate content hate you for deleting their post, people who laugh about it hate you for deleting somebody else's post, and people who didn't really care still don't care whether or not it's there. The learning curve is steep and the only reward is hopefully a better community and more/better discussions. I am all for increasing the content on this forum, especially quality content, but that's difficult when DH as a sport is dying off compared to fat gravel monster cross e-bikes. I agree with you that some posters take the snark too far, but I'd rather have active participation with the OP having to filter out shitposts than me having to eliminate 50% of posts to keep things sterile.
Do any of the rest of you have comments to the above? I have no problem adding moderators; one of the reasons I don't actively moderate every thread is that I have a busy job, two kids, and a long commute. Time spent fucking around on forums is one of the few connections I have to my bikes, especially in the winter.
I lurk in here for the most part. Some stuff I have noted:
Now get off my lawn!
- If one has a technical question involving design and performance, rather than repair, irrespective of equipment type, this is where an answer can be found.
- Some topics get so lost in a combination of detail and mine.is.best that it's hard to find actual information. The Frankenbrake and tire casing discussions would be examples. It's be nice to have edited summaries, but those would be small books and ain't gonna happen.
- Commentary from those actually involved in bicycle design and manufacturing seem to appear only in this forum and are of major value, both from technical and a historical viewpoints.
- It'd be nice if the japery were to be cut down about 80% across the whole site, but that's another issue - it's probably driven by publication of post counts...
Now get off my lawn!
I saw the community forums at the last company I worked at die due to over-moderation; and it had started exponentially larger than this one. Last year we end-of-lifed it since it wasn't covering it's costs anymore. Trying to steer a community is a slippery slope, making changes always carries the risk of losing some of the membership. Unless those changes can create enough new members to offset the loss the community shrinks. Given how small this forum is already and the overall decline of forum participation in general I think changes that decrease total posts would be counter-productive.
Yes.
You're doing a grand job Sandwich. Thank you. (I mean this).
The name of the forum doesn't need to change. (I'm fairly confident 90% of the forum see "freeride" with the irony it deserves.
You'll never please Udi. Not until everything is the exact way he'd like it.
I think it's fine as it is. I agree it's better to have less moderation rather than too much. We are pretty much all adults in here and we already form a nearly fucktard-free community. I believe the forum has everything it needs to be 99% self-moderated. You are there for the remaining 1%.
If moderating becomes a heavy load for you, then yes, you should ask for an additional moderator to help you.
As mentioned, what the forum needs is more useful bike-related content, going (just a little bit) easy on the in-jokes and be more welcoming to noobs. Otherwise, we'll get nobody new in here and we'll only die out as regular members go away. I'm pretty pissed that Facebook nearly killed the forum format...let's try to keep RM a great place to hang out.
imho this forum is just right, dont change anything. let the downfall of the NSMB forum after the forced change in software be a negative example about what happens with a community if someone higher up doesn't value it
This. There are actually a lot of member on RM, they just haven't logged in, in 12 years.
this. so it's settled, nothing changes and we go back to the way things never changed.
I think everyone did a much better job with Udi's last version of this.
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/is-this-forum-about-downhill-or-enduro.276902/
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/is-this-forum-about-downhill-or-enduro.276902/
I really enjoy the mix of nerdy techy stuff and sarcasm here even if I am not quite sure if I get all the jokes since English is a foreign language to me... but that's alright! There is actually not so many places where you can get an honest opinion that is not heavily coloured by marketing BS and it is really refreshing. As an engineer working with testing, I am impressed by the things Udi shares here. His knowledge and understanding of testing methodology, material choice, production techniques combined with feedback from the field are a great asset. (@Udi send me a PM if you need some recommendations! FWIW)
Some thoughts about industry insiders posting or not posting here:
- some people are great at inventing some useful stuff but are less great about communication so that posting in forums is not doing them any favor. DW's modesty comes to mind...
- industry insiders would rarely have an only genuine interest when sharing information here. These people have a business to run and cannot share their knowledge for free in places that are also accessible to other people working in the same field.
- Upcoming insiders can have a great interest in sharing some of their knowledge in order to confront their ideas and get some reputation. Steve from Vorsprung would be a good example, he doesn't post much here any longer since posting on a larger venue like PB is a better "investment" now that he has reach worldwide recognition.
And here I went off-topic again... sorry for the inconvenience
- some people are great at inventing some useful stuff but are less great about communication so that posting in forums is not doing them any favor. DW's modesty comes to mind...
- industry insiders would rarely have an only genuine interest when sharing information here. These people have a business to run and cannot share their knowledge for free in places that are also accessible to other people working in the same field.
- Upcoming insiders can have a great interest in sharing some of their knowledge in order to confront their ideas and get some reputation. Steve from Vorsprung would be a good example, he doesn't post much here any longer since posting on a larger venue like PB is a better "investment" now that he has reach worldwide recognition.
And here I went off-topic again... sorry for the inconvenience
I think a lot of people need forum interaction in order to build their brand, then once it takes off, sales will continue the trend. I think that's what happened with Steve...you only have so much time in a day- his inventions were pretty successful and his business has therefore succeeded. I suspect that MTG would leave us too, if he weren't a monkey before he became part of the 1%. Put it this way- it's possible that DW left here because he didn't like talking to us. It's also possible that when 40000 companies started licensing his technology, he got a little busy.Some thoughts about industry insiders posting or not posting here:
- some people are great at inventing some useful stuff but are less great about communication so that posting in forums is not doing them any favor. DW's modesty comes to mind...
- industry insiders would rarely have an only genuine interest when sharing information here. These people have a business to run and cannot share their knowledge for free in places that are also accessible to other people working in the same field.
- Upcoming insiders can have a great interest in sharing some of their knowledge in order to confront their ideas and get some reputation. Steve from Vorsprung would be a good example, he doesn't post much here any longer since posting on a larger venue like PB is a better "investment" now that he has reach worldwide recognition.
And here I went off-topic again... sorry for the inconvenience
I come to RM for mountain bike-related laughs, face palms, and sometimes even useful information. The DH forum is still the best resource on RM for that stuff. But regardless of what you call it, there will still be crap to sift through.
I am doing my part and selling my DH bike in order not to feel compelled to venture in these parts anymore.