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is this the one time that micheal moore is making sense?

$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
"They are not there to fix a roof or to pour concrete in a driveway. They are mercenaries and soldiers of fortune. They are there for the money." --Filmmaker Michael Moore on the contractors taken hostage in Iraq

as insensitive as the timing of these remarks may be, the fact is that behind US & Britain military, US contractors are the largest armed coalition force. Our military is seemingly threadbare already, & are thinned further by giving close air support to these guys when they get overwhelmed.

Should contractors be in there right now, or just leave it to the big boys until 30 june?
 
B

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Who the hell came up with the term "contractors" for hired killers?

It's like something you'd hear in a mafia movie. "Hey, give Vito the Contractor a call, we need someone iced..."

And how much more does it cost to have mercenaries over there than the enlisted? I mean they're all hired killers, but shouldn't the military not go the normal US corporate route by outsourcing?
 
arcteryx33

arcteryx33

Chimp
Mar 20, 2002
34
0
Philly PA
Actually, the compnay I work (Michael Baker engineering) was hired by the Government to assist in the rebuilding of Iraq. We all recieved emails saying the it would be 6 months on, at three times your rate. Really good money and tax free because you are working abroad. A few people in the company took off for the money. Not me I rather be broke than dead. The contractors that were captured were not soldiers they were civilians for another corporation similiar to mine.
 
Spud

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
What's your definition of contractors? My company is doing construction in there. We think of ourselves as Contractors. We also have about a 1:1 ratio between our construction guys and private security guys.

Talk about overhead.... But is all charged back to the U.S. Taxpayer.

Reinstate the draft. Call up a few thousand engineers and tradesman into the Seebeas. Halliburt and Bechtel are out of the loop, the taxpayer saves some serious bucks and I get sent over at 20 percent of my salary.

Uhm, scratch that idea...
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by Spud
What's your definition of contractors? My company is doing construction in there. We think of ourselves as Contractors. We also have about a 1:1 ratio between our construction guys and private security guys.
Click to expand...
these were Blackwater folks, fullfilling a security contract, therefore (a flavor of) contractors.
The four men brutally slain Wednesday in Fallujah were among the most elite commandos working in Iraq to guard employees of U.S. corporations and were hired by the U.S. government to protect bureaucrats, soldiers and intelligence officers.
wash post
Click to expand...
maybe these are your peeps below:
Private Security Contractors A Growth Industry In Iraq

By Scott Logan

BOISE -
They're civilians who provide security for top VIPs in Iraq like Paul Bremer. And they guard reconstruction projects and escort convoys through hostile areas.
More than ever, the Pentagon is relying on private security contractors to do jobs in Iraq once given to the military. So just who are these guys?
.
.
.
KCBI
Click to expand...
 
N8 v2.0

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
I think its funny that the liberal lefties are whining about US gov contractors ONLY after the events of the last 2 weeks.

These people have been in Iraq shortly after Baghdad fell last year.... and *gasp* they were not out killing anyone. They've been quietly providing security for public works projects and civilian officials (none of which are US military taskings).

It's only after several were killed (some were able to fight back) defending themselves that the liberal lefties start whining about them being, oh what was it now..??? Hired Killers.


Please get a grip.
 
Spud

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Nope, those weren't our guys. We do heavy construction and supply.

Mother Jones (reportedly lib press) had a very interesting report on Blackwater et al last May. Lets see. Published in May, so probably written in April. Ahh hell, I'll give you April and call it a good 11 months ago.

Regardless of the timelines

MoJo Story

Didn't see a lot of hired killer rhetoric in there, some pretty good analyses of the pros/cons and recent history including the Clinton Administrations use of security contractors/mercs.
 
BostonBullit

BostonBullit

Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
230
0
Medway, MA
Originally posted by Silver
If you're carrying a gun, and you're outside of the military chain of command, I'd call you a mercenary, not a contractor.
Click to expand...
If you're an American in Iraq, and you're not in the military chain of command, and you don't carry a gun I'd call you an idiot
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Originally posted by N8
I think its funny that the liberal lefties are whining about US gov contractors ONLY after the events of the last 2 weeks.

These people have been in Iraq shortly after Baghdad fell last year.... and *gasp* they were not out killing anyone. They've been quietly providing security for public works projects and civilian officials (none of which are US military taskings).

It's only after several were killed (some were able to fight back) defending themselves that the liberal lefties start whining about them being, oh what was it now..??? Hired Killers.


Please get a grip.
Click to expand...
Actually, I remember reading about Dyncorp in Kosovo long before this ever happened. A little scandal with hookers, I think (and aren't all the best ones about hookers, when you get down to it?)
 
J

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
Originally posted by BostonBullit
If you're an American in Iraq, and you're not in the military chain of command, and you don't carry a gun I'd call you an idiot
Click to expand...
Or just desparate. Personally, I wouldn't go for anything. But, you gotta be able to understand why someone would even given the risk.
 
BostonBullit

BostonBullit

Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
230
0
Medway, MA
Originally posted by JRogers
Or just desparate. Personally, I wouldn't go for anything. But, you gotta be able to understand why someone would even given the risk.
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily think you have to be "desperate", but it does take a certain personality type (no, not 'war monger'). A lot of the guys over there are there because **** needs to get done and they know how to do it. Sure the extra pay is a good deal, but they're the same types who go cap oil well fires (anywhere in the world), take lava samples from erupting volcanos, go into earthquake areas looking for survivors when they know there are going to be aftershocks, or drop into the middle of a wildfire to help put it out. People measure risks in different ways. In this particular case I would say it makes sense to have an armed sercurity escort whereever you go, regardless of what you call them.

I think I'll call the Brinks guy a mercenary next time he's loading up the ATM with moulah...see the reaction...
 
LordOpie

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Any answer to life can be found in the Clerks script... :D
BLUE-COLLAR MAN
Excuse me. I don't mean to
interrupt, but what were you
talking about?

RANDAL
The ending of Return of the Jedi.

DANTE
My friend is trying to convince me
that any contractors working on the
uncompleted Death Star were innocent
victims when the space station was
destroyed by the rebels.

BLUE-COLLAR MAN
Well, I'm a contractor myself. I'm
a roofer...
(digs into pocket and
produces business card)
Dunn and Reddy Home Improvements.
And speaking as a roofer, I can say
that a roofer's personal politics
come heavily into play when choosing
jobs.

RANDAL
Like when?

BLUE-COLLAR MAN
Three months ago I was offered a
job up in the hills. A beautiful
house with tons of property. It was
a simple reshingling job, but I was
told that if it was finished within
a day, my price would be doubled.
Then I realized whose house it was.

DANTE
Whose house was it?

BLUE-COLLAR MAN
Dominick Bambino's.

RANDAL
"Babyface" Bambino? The gangster?


BLUE-COLLAR MAN
The same. The money was right, but
the risk was too big. I knew who he
was, and based on that, I passed
the job on to a friend of mine.

DANTE
Based on personal politics.

BLUE-COLLAR MAN
Right. And that week, the Foresci
family put a hit on Babyface's
house. My friend was shot and
killed. He wasn't even finished
shingling.

RANDAL
No way!

BLUE-COLLAR MAN
(paying for coffee)
I'm alive because I knew there were
risks involved taking on that
particular client. My friend wasn't
so lucky.
(pauses to reflect)
You know, any contractor willing to
work on that Death Star knew the
risks. If they were killed, it was
their own fault. A roofer listens
to this...
(taps his heart)
not his wallet.
Click to expand...
:D
 
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