Easy summary of regional history while they're currently blowing up/shooting each other again in that region.
Israel/Palestine
- Thread starter 6thElement
- Start date
"Sid Days" is apparently pronounced "six dee days" by chatbot gpt
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Friend of mine moved to Haifa to get his PhD a while back. Ended up meeting a local girl. They got married in the US last year but had to keep it secret for fear of violence as a jewish/muslim relationship is frowned on by everyone there. Before all of this they planned on moving back to Seattle this month and that timing couldn't come any sooner.
Israel is going to exterminate two million people. Their president says there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, all are responsible.
www.huffpost.com
Israeli President Suggests That Civilians In Gaza Are Legitimate Targets
“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Isaac Herzog said as Israel ordered 1.1 million Palestinians to evacuate their homes.
Ok, how would you handle the response to the attack if you were in his shoes?
(however, it’s not really his decision)
Im personally hugely conflicted.
(however, it’s not really his decision)
Im personally hugely conflicted.
I dunno. But there is no excuse for slaughtering children, on either side. Yeah Hamas is clearly an apocalyptic death cult like ISIS and needs to be dealt with. But from my comfy arm chair it appears that Israel is going to use this as an excuse to commit genocide while the US supports their actions. I hope I am wrong.
The argument revolves around whether they are truly ‘innocent’, when Hamas’ intentions have been crystal clear for generations. It is the theoretical silence of an adjacent population, who allowed Hamas to thrive, that is at issue.
But yeah, they have been given a shit-deal in Palestine, as have the entire Jewish population throughout history.
But yeah, they have been given a shit-deal in Palestine, as have the entire Jewish population throughout history.
So by that logic are we as guilty as a mass shooter because we said nothing or didn't do enough to prevent it ? I just don't buy that everyone in Gaza is a Hamas supporter simply because they were born there.
X post from No Faith in...
X post from No Faith in...
BTW I'm not arguing for, or against, either side. The whole situation is ugly.
To me, the argument again revolves around the fact that the 'mass murderer' in this case was well known, fairly open about murderous intent, armed to the teeth, and really made it well known to everyone around them of their allegiance.
Very different from some random lone wolf incel.
But yeah, this has been brewing for 6,000 years or so...
Would it help to substitute 'mass murderer' with the NRA ?
Particularly the very large segment of the population born there in the last, say, 18 years.
The situation and history are complex but the deliberate killing of hundreds of thousands or millions of civilians is a clear cut war crime.
There is no way for Israel to counter without massive civilian casualties.Israel is going to exterminate two million people. Their president says there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, all are responsible.
Israeli President Suggests That Civilians In Gaza Are Legitimate Targets
“It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Isaac Herzog said as Israel ordered 1.1 million Palestinians to evacuate their homes.
Hamas knew this, yet, they decided to go on a 1000+ killed people spree.
There are no good choices.
That's excellent.
Hamas/non Hamas Palestinians can avoid a TON of that by releasing all of the hostages. It's their move.
mass genocide obviously
It's a bit like losing your shit over some broken windows by black lives matters protesters
Exactly how much murdering and displacement are you telling them they should take? And for how long? WTF you think is going to happen when people are literally pulled from their homes, told to go fuck off because of some stupid ass 'right of return' for rich pricks in brooklyn to have a vacation home? When you're literally gunned down for being born where you were....
With the zillions we've sent israel over the last several generations you'd think they'd be a little better at sEcUrItY and dEfEnSe
They sure seem pretty prepared for offense though eh?
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There's a certain part of me that thinks that if you're dumb enough to believe in magic dirt that the magic sky daddy told you was yours, expect to be put in it. Because some other batshit zealot is going to want it too.
Is there any non mass genocide chance of defense?
What israel is now doing is not defense. It's the secret thing they've wanted to do for eons.
I don't know man, you'd think a highly subsidized nation who's military's entire fucking function is defense™ and security™ would be better at it.
And I don't even mean the hamas attack itself. Those well funded zionist nutjobs should damn well know how to get to hamas without carpet bombing all of palestine and starving out people in hospitals. Some of which just need long term treatment well before all of this bullshit.
They've focused on expansion for 40-50 years. Maybe keep your eye on the ball instead of spreading whatever the hell it is they think they're spreading in their wacko zionist quest for dominion.
Either they don't know enough to target hamas specifically, or they don't care and are just as bad as hamas with US backing. Honestly they're acting like the united states in the winter of 2001
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pretty sure they lifted that from an internal NYT email list
Why? First, because this editorial board doesn’t like getting yelled at. Second, there are going to be way fewer people with way less power mad at us. We don’t want to go up against the entire U.S. government, which through President Biden has expressed its unwavering support for Israel. Finally, and more importantly, it’s because we don’t want to and you can’t make us. You can’t. You seriously can’t. You cannot make us do all of this hard stuff. Ever. Seriously.
Furthermore, we should remember that unpacking this conflict in an adequately thorough manner would require examining it through a diverse range of lenses such as antisemitism, Islamic fundamentalism, the Holocaust, imperialism, contact theory, and many more, all while keeping in mind valid but competing narratives of victimhood that span hundreds of years. And we sure as hell aren’t going to mention apartheid. That sounds like an enormous headache. Even worse, our reward for that would be mobs of people screaming at us online. Why would we do that?
Ok, I’ll bite, what, precisely, is your strategy to deal with this?
Hell, even vaguely?
Very curious.
Fully agreed.
For israel?
Now? Cut all US israeli aid the second netanyahu started using eliminationist rhetoric publicly
Going forward? Stop killing people in mosques and continually expanding your border. Return borders to pre 1967 and stop casually ignoring the facsist right wing in your own country, exactly what you accuse palestine of.
Figure out what the fuck you did wrong to not know this massive of an attack on so many fronts was coming.
For Palestine?
Get out of the way of this fucking nutjob, he wants you non-existent.
Until the first list ever happens, there is no equivalency. You're asking the starved victims of apartheid to take on the same responsibilities and capabilities of an american tumor, with all the resources of the planet feeding it.
More than anything else, israel needs to stop acting like genocidal nazis. All they're going to do is inflame every other islamic nation around them to make sure this happens again. They can only do this because they have the full confidence of the US government to continue acting like dominionists.
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You paint a pretty fantasy. Sounds reasonable...however, this is the Middle East. Eye for an eye is kinda modus operandi.
That's lazy. Pat me on the head when you talk like that why don't you.
You asked
Cutting us israeli funding is not a fantasy. It's a reality based solution that will stop the war crimes the nation of israel is already committing and is about to escalate. Our government has no courage. (see onion link nick posted).
I'm going to visit a good friend of mine tomorrow who lived in israel for about 10 years. She's been losing her marbles the last week for obvious reasons until yesterday when the last family member she has over there finally secured a flight out. She's been incessantly painting this as an attack out of nowhere for no reason at all. I work with her constantly on govt land use issues and she and I could not possibly be more in line with anti-gentrification, entitlement and basically rich fucks kicking out the undesireables. All she's been talking about is the horrific actions of hamas. Only when pressed does she admit she knows exactly what the israeli gov't has been doing to the powerless for decades. Much like you didn't pick out my earlier statements about apartheid, expansion, and dominionism on the part of israel......because you know what's been going on. You can't lose your shit about a commanche attack on western settlers and paint them as savages, neither can you paint a hamas attack on israel as out of the blue. You know better. And institutionally 'we' have been complicit.
All of this stops if israel thinks they're about to lose their truck nuts. Most of this goes away if israel can for once, in the entire history of its modern founding after WW2 can show some fucking humility. Just once. It's not a pretty fantasy, it's reality. Like here, the people that make it into the upper echelons of that gov't are ego and meglomaniacs. We can stop the destruction. We just don't because we don't want to get yelled at by american jews who think that just because they've been massacred throuought history, the gov't of israel can do no wrong. That's fucked up. And very incorrect. The upper reaches of the Israel govt are full of right wing psychopaths. Simply not empowering them is not a fantasy.
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I wouldn't que say that Palestinian people are tacitly or implicitly endorsing Hamas... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah–Hamas_conflict
Even if it's 30-40%, that's 30-40% of millions that support genocide.
Hard line Zionism is fucked, and fucked up. But so far, Zionists are not beheading, raping, and mutilating women and babies openly, and as a tactic.
Do you think that could possibly go unanswered, regardless of the brutal displacement?
Just a shrug, and 'whatever'?
Hard line Zionism is fucked, and fucked up. But so far, Zionists are not beheading, raping, and mutilating women and babies openly, and as a tactic.
Do you think that could possibly go unanswered, regardless of the brutal displacement?
Just a shrug, and 'whatever'?
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They're not.
But you're supposed to believe that so you can ignore what israel is doing and is about to do.
Sounds like israel
Does that make this massacre (of Israelis) acceptable?
What if one of those raped and killed was your daughter (same as if it were the Palestinian POV?).
Quit changing the subject. Complicity in the actions of the israeli gov't is one equivalency that's severely lacking in wanting to point fingers at palestinians for 'supporting' hamas'
You asked for solutions not creative retaliation
It's becoming apparent separating the two is tough
If you're waiting for me to justify any single action of hamas it ain't gonna happen. You already know where I stand on religious zealotry. I'm just reminding you of WHY it happened and why there might be any modicum of complicity on the part of palistinians. Which you know. Desperation. Israel is not a desperate nation. They damn sure made sure palestine was before this however. It's like blaming the dog after it bites you after fucking with it after it already growls.
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I don't think you need to 'remind' me of any of it.
"you get what you pay for"
the israeli govt is a bunch of imperialist assholes wanting to play victim with a dog bite everyone saw coming.
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Fair point. But the voices to create a two state solution, and attempt to rectify the imbalances of occupation and access to jobs, medicine, etc, for Palestinians were coming from centrist and left Israelis, and not from Palestinians.
Yeah man the elite palestinians were too concerned with petty shit like fresh water to drink, while the poor little college educated israelis were naval gazing about world events.
