[Transcend]

You have to understand that Hamas's word means nothing, they have lied many times before, and if the Palestinians want the blockade to stop they would have stopped launching rockets into Israel months ago.

Or maybe Israel should allow them to have food, water and power and the rockets would stop raining down?

Do you seriously think that Israel's actions are doing anything except breeding hate? The last few days have made up more than a few minds and has no doubt bred a whole new batch of idiots willing to blow themselves up. All Israel is doing is making the situation much, much worse.

Iran's news agency has just reported that radical student groups are asking for permission to fight for Hamas but traveling to Israel and blowing themselves up. Reportedly, 10 000 morons have "signed up" in the last 3-4 days.

Someone mentioned that Israel was a successful, westernized country etc. So why in hell do they need US weapons, US financial aid and US support? They are nothing more than a puppet t push forward US interests in the region. They always have been, and always will be.

 

[$tinkle]

just a nit, but i believe israel rolls their own tanks. as well as krav maga (yet to be used)

but sure we have interests over there. and we do in egypt as well, that's why we give them $2B/yr. rendition don't pay for itself

for the most part, i believe this notion of a wave of tens of thousands of suicide bombers is way overblown. it should only be a few hundred. hmmm....that still sucks....

 

[TheMontashu]

Or maybe Israel should allow them to have food, water and power and the rockets would stop raining down?

Do you seriously think that Israel's actions are doing anything except breeding hate? The last few days have made up more than a few minds and has no doubt bred a whole new batch of idiots willing to blow themselves up. All Israel is doing is making the situation much, much worse.

Iran's news agency has just reported that radical student groups are asking for permission to fight for Hamas but traveling to Israel and blowing themselves up. Reportedly, 10 000 morons have "signed up" in the last 3-4 days.

Someone mentioned that Israel was a successful, westernized country etc. So why in hell do they need US weapons, US financial aid and US support? They are nothing more than a puppet t push forward US interests in the region. They always have been, and always will be.

You realize this spike in rocket attacks happened when the Israeli's pulled out and before they were blockaded in. As soon as the Israelis left the rockets started falling.

 

[TheMontashu]

just a nit, but i believe israel rolls their own tanks. as well as krav maga (yet to be used)

but sure we have interests over there. and we do in egypt as well, that's why we give them $2B/yr. rendition don't pay for itself

for the most part, i believe this notion of a wave of tens of thousands of suicide bombers is way overblown. it should only be a few hundred. hmmm....that still sucks....

Not to mention the Israelis catching 90+ percent of suicide bombers before they do any damage

 

[$tinkle]

interesting: arabs are siding with israel

PLO and Fatah Officials: Hamas is Responsible for the Deaths of Its People

In his visit to Egypt, PA President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) placed the responsibility for the Israeli attack on Hamas, saying, "We called the leaders of Hamas, and told them both directly and indirectly, through Arab parties and non-Arab parties. We talked with them on the phone. We told them, 'Please, do not end the tahdiah.'" [ceasefire]

Nimr Hammad, an advisor to Mahmoud Abbas, said: "The one responsible for the massacres is Hamas, and not the Zionist entity, which in its own view reacted to the firing of Palestinian missiles. Hamas needs to stop treating the blood of Palestinians lightly. They should not give the Israelis a pretext." He called upon the leaders of Hamas to stop carrying out "operations which reflect recklessness, such as the firing of missiles."

Arab Leaders, Civilians Blame Hamas for Gaza Violence

A Palestinian girl in Gaza whose family members died in Gaza Dec. 28 in an Israeli air attack held Hamas responsible. "I say Hamas is the cause, in the first place, of all wars,” the girl told Palestinian TV.

A Palestinian journalist in Gaza said members of the Palestinian media are ‘directing’ civilians to cry and telling them what to say in interviews: "A mother of one of the martyrs stood by the door of the intensive care unit while crying... relatives and those around her were telling her what she should say to the television cameras: 'Say your son [before he died] prayed and went out.' Another tells her: 'Curse the Arab leaders'... The journalists [in the hospitals] are going overboard in their insensitivity and taking advantage of the [difficult] moments, with the explanation that they are showing this to the world. One cameraman told a mourning mother: 'Hit your face, cry, do some action.'"

Abbas also blamed Hamas for disrupting national unity talks that could have paved the way for general and presidential elections. While visiting Cairo to discuss Egyptian and Arab League efforts to put an end to the violence in Gaza, Abbas said: “We have warned of this grave danger.”

Nimr Hammad, an advisor to Abbas, said: “The one responsible for the massacre is Hamas […].” He called upon Hamas's leaders to stop carrying out “operations, which reflect recklessness, such as the firing of missiles.”

Hafez Al-Barghouthi, editor of the PLO daily al-Hayat al-Jadida criticized Hamas for not prolonging the 'tahdiah' - Arabic for 'calm': “Prolonging the tahdiah was a supreme national interest. Why hasn’t [Hamas] prevented the aggression and the massacre? How many times have we written and Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas) has declared that these missiles [that Hamas is firing at Israel] as ineffective and contrary to the supreme national interest

does anyone left in this thread still believe there exists a moral equivalence in this latest skirmish?

 

[Defenestrated]

of course fatah would attack hamas' actions, they are opposing factions...

its not a very big revelation to realize that most Palestinians are not radicals but normal moderate people

 

[JohnE]

just a nit, but i believe israel rolls their own tanks. as well as krav maga (yet to be used)

Took Krav...not that great an art...but I got a cool t-shirt.

 

[rockwool]

Took Krav...not that great an art...but I got a cool t-shirt.

Yeah, but get those 19 year olds to tape some spings to their boots and machetes to their underarms, and they'll be effin **** up like Edward Scissor Ninja Turtles.

 

[rockwool]

You realize this spike in rocket attacks happened when the Israeli's pulled out and before they were blockaded in. As soon as the Israelis left the rockets started falling.

Palestine was still occupied wasn't it? I know you're not a "fuk you I got mine" kind of guy so you should be able to understand the meaning of solidarity.

Non the less, Israeli officials have totally been ignoring that they're in control of the worlds two largest prisons, and that one of them has been blockaded for 18 months only due to that Palestinans didn't elect the Israelis fav man.

interesting: arabs are siding with israel

does anyone left in this thread still believe there exists a moral equivalence in this latest skirmish?

Abbas turned on Hamas from the very first start, as he too thought that they wouldn't last as soon as the western countries put restrictions on them and refused to deal with them. He saw a chanse to keep Fatah in power and has acted accordingly, playing it like he's the good house ni**er.

Moral eqivalence?

 

[rockwool]

I am a pro Israel anti Palestinian Zionist.

Wait, I know I'm stoned, but this sounds funny even for a sober person. Is there any other kind of Zionists?

 

[rockwool]

but i put the question to you if you'd support violence as a means to an end, and you seem to avoid answering that specific question.



rockwool: geneva convention? really? why does it seemingly apply one way?

Me, I'm against violence but I reserve the right to defend my self. Same goes for my country; I reserve the right to use violence as a mean of defence But if Sweden was to invade Norway we would be on the offensive and I wouldn't support that, and the Norwegians would have the right to by any mean they can free them selves from our oppression.



Well, for one, Israel is stating that they are following those but obviously they aren't. For a second, they have the means to do so. Third, they've created a general situation where all other retaliative options for Palestinians are excluded, which means they have to deal with what's left. And fourth, if they don't like it they can get the fvck out of Palestine, and if it still continues after that then they will have the right to complain.

This is what comes to mind right now, there could be more reasons, but for focks sake, they want to be badboys and they greed for even more land, although they were given the most and the best, then they can't cry as soon as they meet the slightest resistance. :booMFhoo:


Bottom line, if you as a person have any problems with anyone else, you take it to court. The Israelis don't want that, and they refuse any scrutiny of any kind; UN, NGO's, or the media. That only leaves one to say: take it and shut it.

u2b now caving: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/pollak/48462

other military videos with similarly scaled carnage still available, however.

Yeh, the guy is crying because Youtube doesn't want to be used by a nations propaganda. Like if Jews and goyim zionists didn't own enough media already. -No, we want it all! "We're the victims", "they hate us"... Double standard my dick....Jewish individuals are still allowed to post there just like any other individual, aren't they? If they're not, give me a holla because that would be wrong!!!

Oh, and of course, flash games!

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/476393#

Yeah, sieg heil.....

Gaza and the West Bank aren't states.

Why do the mudpeople have the expectation of the obligations of statehood with none of the benefits of it from you while the white people have all the benefits of that statehood with none of the apparent obligations to live up to treaties?

Google Mussolini + strongman's right of way.

Good point BTW, I didn't think of that.

the best way to get a good ratio is to get 1 hq, 3 airports, and spam bombers

however, you kill loads more palestinians with a full out ground assault, decisions....

So what do you score for bombing a mosque, a university, and a block of flats?

 

[TheMontashu]

Palestine was still occupied wasn't it? I know you're not a "fuk you I got mine" kind of guy so you should be able to understand the meaning of solidarity.

Non the less, Israeli officials have totally been ignoring that they're in control of the worlds two largest prisons, and that one of them has been blockaded for 18 months only due to that Palestinans didn't elect the Israelis fav man.

I totally understand WHY the Palestinians do what they do. What I don't like is that so much of what they do not only does nothing to help, but creates many more problems (Israel does to but it's not like there actions end with Israelis not getting food) I would hope they would be doing everything they can to get the blockade to lifted and the Israeli's to stop attacking them.

 

[dante]

And fourth, if they don't like it they can get the fvck out of Palestine, and if it still continues after that then they will have the right to complain.

Um, they did exit Gaza in 2005. They removed military posts, settlements, roadblocks, and all military units and civilians other than what were required for controling the border with Egypt. What's more, they went back to the exact separation line after the 1948 conflict (which they're not doing in the WB). The result was increased rocket and mortar attacks (refer back to the graph that I posted earlier). In the years previous, we'd heard quite a bit about how roadblocks in Gaza were a major cause of tension, and we know that settlements were a definite problem, so Israel removed both of those, and rocket attacks rose exponentially. So why should Israel eliminate the restrictions that are keeping more powerful weaponry out of the hands of the Palestinians? Why should Israel hand over more land to be used for rocket attacks?

 

[eric strt6]

I really like the pro Palistinian dirtbags protesting in SF today chanting death to America. Load em on a plane and ship em home wherever that may be. You want me dead fine GTFO of the USA on the next boat or plane

 

[Samirol]

dante, from your graph, although it is hard to do a month by month comparison, it looks like the violence escalates much higher whenever Israel does restrictive actions than when it loosens its grip. It is tough to do a comparison between Israeli actions and Palestinian response with an inaccurate graph, but I'm looking for other data sources.

It also appears that Fatah-Hamas clashes tend to result in an increase of rocket attacks, but it is tough without the hard data.

edit: so I went to the source material site, they are pretty pro-Israeli, but when Israel started the pullout, terrorist attacks decreased (warning: pdf http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/palestinian_terror_e.pdf and go to page 17)

edit: It appears that it was Islamic Jihad mainly responsible for the rise in violence in December. According to their information, none of the rocket/mortar attacks that happened in December 2005 were identified as Qassam rockets, but unidentified. Two of the seven suicide bombing attacks that were carried out in 2005 happened in December, both by Islamic Jihad. Islamic Jihad carried out 5 of the 7 total suicide attacks, most in the later part of 2005 and Hamas carried out 2, none after Israel began its pullout.

 

[Samirol]

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/03/israeli-leaflets-warn-gazans-to-leave-their-homes/

JERUSALEM (CNN) — Leaflets signed by the commander of Israel Defense Forces were dropped over northern Gaza Saturday morning, warning residents to “leave the area immediately” to ensure their safety.

Israeli tanks and troops are gathered at the Gaza border, and IDF spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovitch has said ground forces are prepared to enter Gaza as soon as they get the orders.

“Due to the terrorist actions undertaken by terrorist elements from the region of your residences against the state of Israel, the Israel Defense Forces are compelled to respond immediately in the region of your residences. For your safety, you are ordered to leave the area immediately,” the leaflets say.





Under international humanitarian law, breach by one side does not allow the adversary to relate to the entire area from which the rocket fire is launched as a legitimate military target. Then again, this is Israel.

e: 441 killed, and artillery is being fired, with a ground invasion ready to roll



e2: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/03/news/ML-Israel-Palestinians.php

Palestinian medical officials say an Israeli airstrike on a mosque in the Gaza Strip has killed 10 people and wounded dozens more.

It is not clear whether the dead were Hamas militants. The mosque is named after a founder of the militant group who was killed by Israel in 2004.

The medical officials say more than 30 people were wounded in Saturday's airstrike in the northern town of Beit Lahiya. At least seven are in critical condition.



It happened during evening prayer as well.

 

[sanjuro]

JERUSALEM — Israel moved its troops into Gaza starting a ground offensive eight days after launching an airstrike campaign in efforts to end rocket attacks from Hamas militants.

Yea! No more rockets!

 

[Samirol]

Israel threatens to Holocaust the Palestinians

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/29/israelandthepalestinians1

An Israeli minister today warned of increasingly bitter conflict in the Gaza Strip, saying the Palestinians could bring on themselves what he called a "holocaust".

"The more Qassam [rocket] fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," Matan Vilnai, Israel's deputy defence minister, told army radio.

Shoah is the Hebrew word normally reserved to refer to the Jewish Holocaust. It is rarely used in Israel outside discussions of the Nazi extermination of Jews during the second world war, and many Israelis are loath to countenance its use to describe other events.

 

[eric strt6]

I haven't really posted in this thread but I have a few questions to ask

Have any of you actually been there [Israel, West Bank, The Golan, Lebanon]?

Have you dodged Car Bombs and IED's

Have you had a rocket barrage blow up the building next to where you were sleeping?

have you had to hit the deck as machine gun bullets ripped over your head?

have you spent time in the villages talking to the common folk Arab and Jew alike?

Have you been in a bus that had the front end ripped off by a land mine planted on the highway near the jordainian border.

Have you seen the dead and bloodied results from the above?

I served over there on an international medical team and I saw all of that and its not pretty. Ask the average joe on either side of the coin and they will say they want peace but the radical islamists only want death and the radical orthodox jews will not negotiate. Hammas has no interest in any solution that does not kill the jews, christians, and any muslims that do not follow their view [just ask the families of the Fatah party members that were rounded up and shot by Hammas after they siezed power in GAZA]. Hammas has never given a second thought about civillian casualties thats why they put their bases next to schools, hospitals etc. They view collateral civilian deaths as good propaganda to enrage the uneducated masses and recruit them to the cause. I don't belive for a second that if you gave Hammas control of a Palestinian State and Israel went back to the 48 borders that Hammas would stop launching rockets and trying to kill the jews and if you really believe that they would settle in to peace I know of a bridge for sale that I would like to sell you

 

[Samirol]

just ask the families of the Fatah party members that were rounded up and shot by Hammas after they siezed power in GAZA]. Hammas has never given a second thought about civillian casualties thats why they put their bases next to schools, hospitals etc. They view collateral civilian deaths as good propaganda to enrage the uneducated masses and recruit them to the cause. I don't belive for a second that if you gave Hammas control of a Palestinian State and Israel went back to the 48 borders that Hammas would stop launching rockets and trying to kill the jews and if you really believe that they would settle in to peace I know of a bridge for sale that I would like to sell you

Hamas was voted in, and there was fighting afterwords. There were atrocities by both Fatah and Hamas that were committed, and Fatah attempted to kill the Hamas leader among other things, neither side is a saint.

Police stations being located in civilian centers is completely rational. I don't think that at this stage Hamas is ready to do diplomacy, because of the blockade.

Fatah was corrupt as hell, and 90% of the budget under Hamas goes to education, social programs, etc.

It is my belief that the current form of Hamas will either become more moderate or a moderate non-corrupt option will appear when Israel's grip is loosened. The problem is radicalism on both sides, and the Palestinians didn't vote in Hamas because they want to kill Jews, they wanted a non-corrupt government.

 

[Transcend]

On top of what Samirol said, less than half of Palestinian voters even voted (around 700k out of an eligible 1.6million). Hamas has always been the group giving Palestinians social programs and services, it is how they garner support.

Israel is just as much to blame as Hamas, possibly more. Being a nation, more is expected of them.

 

[Defenestrated]

Being a nation, more is expected of them.

Sadly it isn't so.

 

[Transcend]

Sadly it isn't so.

Well I certainly expect more aggression and needless violence from them anyways.

 

[TheMontashu]

I haven't really posted in this thread but I have a few questions to ask

Have any of you actually been there [Israel, West Bank, The Golan, Lebanon]?

Have you dodged Car Bombs and IED's

Have you had a rocket barrage blow up the building next to where you were sleeping?

have you had to hit the deck as machine gun bullets ripped over your head?

have you spent time in the villages talking to the common folk Arab and Jew alike?

Have you been in a bus that had the front end ripped off by a land mine planted on the highway near the jordainian border.

Have you seen the dead and bloodied results from the above?

I served over there on an international medical team and I saw all of that and its not pretty. Ask the average joe on either side of the coin and they will say they want peace but the radical islamists only want death and the radical orthodox jews will not negotiate. Hammas has no interest in any solution that does not kill the jews, christians, and any muslims that do not follow their view [just ask the families of the Fatah party members that were rounded up and shot by Hammas after they siezed power in GAZA]. Hammas has never given a second thought about civillian casualties thats why they put their bases next to schools, hospitals etc. They view collateral civilian deaths as good propaganda to enrage the uneducated masses and recruit them to the cause. I don't belive for a second that if you gave Hammas control of a Palestinian State and Israel went back to the 48 borders that Hammas would stop launching rockets and trying to kill the jews and if you really believe that they would settle in to peace I know of a bridge for sale that I would like to sell you

I have been to Israel twice, spent 2 weeks on a kibutz in the golan and have ben to the west bank....

 

[rockwool]

I really like the pro Palistinian dirtbags protesting in SF today chanting death to America. Load em on a plane and ship em home wherever that may be. You want me dead fine GTFO of the USA on the next boat or plane

I'm sure that if you asked them they would reply that you should do the same out of every muslim country in the world, as well as all other countries, that you have pressence in. The US and EU are the two biggest reasons to that we have economic and political refugees all over, including SF.

 

[eric strt6]

I'm sure that if you asked them they would reply that you should do the same out of every muslim country in the world, as well as all other countries, that you have pressence in. The US and EU are the two biggest reasons to that we have economic and political refugees all over, including SF.

I would expect to be executed for chanting death to [pick your Arabic Country] in that country. Thats the way they do things. if you don't like America and want us to die , leave I'm sure there are other places you would rather be that want you. I'll buy the one way ticket for you.

 

[TheMontashu]

Just got confirmation that 2 of my good friends are now in Gaza. Depending on how this escalates they could end up being there for a while.

 

[rockwool]

I would expect to be executed for chanting death to [pick your Arabic Country] in that country. Thats the way they do things. if you don't like America and want us to die , leave I'm sure there are other places you would rather be that want you. I'll buy the one way ticket for you.

You didn't read my post but I'll answer you anyways. Meanwhile you're speculating what would happen to you if you chanted that, your civil humanist kind have killed way over half a million Iraqis in the last 5 years and another million Iraqis inbetween the two wars. Now, go marinate on that for a while.

Just got confirmation that 2 of my good friends are now in Gaza. Depending on how this escalates they could end up being there for a while.

You ought to be a good friend and inform your friends of that there exists an organization for those Israeli soldiers and officers who refuse to serve on occupied territory. They serve only within Israeli borders. Can't remember if it was Gush Shalom, but they'll know to tell you if you send them an email.

http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/intro.html

 

[TheMontashu]

You ought to be a good friend and inform your friends of that there exists an organization for those Israeli soldiers and officers who refuse to serve on occupied territory. They serve only within Israeli borders. Can't remember if it was Gush Shalom, but they'll know to tell you if you send them an email.

http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/intro.html

I have enough respect for my friends that serve to not talk politics with them

 

[rockwool]

I have enough respect for my friends that serve to not talk politics with them

Put it like an Israeli official and tell them that it's not politics, it's a health matter.

 

[rockwool]

Um, they did exit Gaza in 2005. They removed military posts, settlements, roadblocks, and all military units and civilians other than what were required for controling the border with Egypt. What's more, they went back to the exact separation line after the 1948 conflict (which they're not doing in the WB). The result was increased rocket and mortar attacks (refer back to the graph that I posted earlier). In the years previous, we'd heard quite a bit about how roadblocks in Gaza were a major cause of tension, and we know that settlements were a definite problem, so Israel removed both of those, and rocket attacks rose exponentially. So why should Israel eliminate the restrictions that are keeping more powerful weaponry out of the hands of the Palestinians? Why should Israel hand over more land to be used for rocket attacks?

What land are you talking about that should be handed over?


The rest, and not in any specific order:

1) One of the biggest reasons to that you mentioned your self, but out of some reason you didn't reflect on it enough and you even put it within parenthesis to downplay its importance; Palestine has been occupied during all this time.

2) The graph that you posted shows a clear rise in those attacks after the blockade against Gaza commenced, and as for before that period non of us know the history good enough to know their specific reasons, but for one; the occupation was still going on, that we know, and we can't close our eyes to.

3) Second thought, I just came to think of anohter reason; 10.000 reasons, all of those are imprisoned without trial in Israel. To ad, this is a breach (or even grave breach of the Geneva Convention.

4) Since Hamas was elected to govern Palestine their has not only been a war on Gazans through frozen assest, closed borders, denied right to fish in their own waters, closed airport (never opened, ever), denied ports and their 12nm of maritime borders, but they have also jailed every legislative Hamas member to the Palestinian parliament. To ad, this is a breach (or even grave breach) of the Geneva Convention.

5) Obviously, even though all four sides of their border were under controll of Israel, they have been able to smuggle in food and nessesities and weapons too through the tunnels. The blockade has had no other effect than to hamper civilians need for enough food, general nessesities, fuel, but mostly medicine. To ad, this is a grave breach of the Geneva Convention!

6) And last, who is restricting Israel from having any heavy weapons, or using them, even unlawfully, they even have nukes but haven't got the right to under the non proliferation agreement (and what ever those treaties are called), and they have never suffered any restriction in any shape or form from any country. There are laws allowing (forcing?) the EU to act, to impose an embargo or similar, when a country is doing actions like those Israel is. I bet there are similar laws in the US, and I sure as hell know the UN have them, but......we all know what and why.........
Bottom line, Israel have all those weapons, Israel is sure using them on legitemate as well as illegitemate targets, while they're dictating what their adversary is going to fight with. They've had total controll and have thus created their problem. Why? To have an excuse towards the international community to continue the occupation of the W.B. and W.Jerusalem.
How could they otherwise justify this continuation of the occupation?

 

[$tinkle]

Israeli strike on northern Gaza school kills 40

Gaza City - An Israeli strike on a school run by the United Nations in a northern Gaza Strip town killed at least 40 Palestinians, health officials said.

Gaza emergency services chief Mo'aweya Hassanein said that dozens more were injured in the strike on the al-Fakhoura school in the Jabaliya refugee camp, north of Gaza City.

without digging, i'd bet shekels to bagels this was the result of return fire

 

[RenegadeRick]

...without digging, i'd bet shekels to bagels this was the result of return fire

That is the story I heard. And it is being told by the Israelis, so it must be true.

 

[JohnE]

Israeli strike on northern Gaza school kills 40without digging, i'd bet shekels to bagels this was the result of return fire

It will be by the time the Israelis are done with it...

 

[$tinkle]

looks like i may be wrong: seems the terrorists were hiding among the kiddies. i wonder if there's precedent?

 

[$tinkle]

That is the story I heard. And it is being told by the Israelis, so it must be true.

it's also told by the AP:

Two residents of the area who spoke by telephone to the Associated Press said they saw a handful of militants firing mortar shells from a street near the school.

msnbc.com

what i find more disturbing is this israeli bombing was done with mortar shells, which are not precise. i'd rather they were more accurate in their pin-prick surgical strikes in such a densely populated area.

then i could feel better about murder.

 

[JohnE]

Mortars are relatively imprecise...compared to laser guided munitions. A good, well trained mortar crew can drop rounds in a mayonaise jar with consistency.

 

[$tinkle]

while it certainly smacks of propaganda, i wonder if there's the polar equivalent

 

[dante]

looks like i may be wrong: seems the terrorists were hiding among the kiddies. i wonder if there's precedent?

Jeez. But it's ok, Hamas doesn't have to follow the rules, since they're not a country, just a duly elected government. They get to use human shields, and it's Israel's fault if any of them are killed....

edit - stinkle, your last video really does just smack of propaganda, as it only shows one side of the conflict. your other two video's are pretty disturbing, especially the first. it's obvious that those are not willing participants as far as the kids go.

 

[Transcend]

You know elected Hamas officials were removed from the Gov't by Abbas and Fatah in June of 07 right? They were fighting each other until a cease fire of June 08.

Gaza hasn't had a duly elected Government in quite some time. Even the take over by Fatah was deemed illegal by pretty much every country who gives a damn.

And yes, terrorists do terrible things, and this includes Hamas and probably Fatah as well. It doesn't mean a so-called civilized first world Government should stoop to the same levels. This is why there is a backlash against the US using torture techniques in Iraq.

Didn't your mother ever teach you that 2 wrongs do not make a right?